Standardized Testing Is Essential to Education

[IM2]

Standardized tests don't mean jack squat. I scored well on them, and most of the time, I just filled in the dots just to get it over with. It got boring sitting in the auditorium all day.

But the usual suspects will make the usual comments about them.

 

[Winston]

Actually, the biggest problem with standardized testing is that the teachers start teaching to the test.

The problem with standardized testing is that it favors the affluent. Rich white people can afford SAT coaches.

It is not just the SAT coaches, it is the experiences those families can provide.

I raised my children pretty much in poverty. Full time mother at all times. I did it by choice. I thought the internet was the great equalizer. I spent time with my kids, summers were times of study, required reading, experiments, fun activities. During the school year it was dinner at the table every night and a discussion about the day, often times that morphed into a history or science lesson.

It didn't matter. I wake up early in the morning, sneak into the kitchen and catch a glimpse of my oldest son, at the computer, waiting for the release of his SAT scores. I could see his reaction, heartbroken. He had one dream, to attend NC State and major in engineering. It was smashed.

But no, those test scores mean nothing. Today, he has a Phd in Material Science from none other than NC State.

 

[Winston]

Standardized tests don't mean jack squat. I scored well on them, and most of the time, I just filled in the dots just to get it over with. It got boring sitting in the auditorium all day.

But th usual suspects will make the usual comments about them.

For me, those tests got comical. I moved around a lot when I was young. One school district in the fifth grade, took and IQ test. Afterwards, the teacher actually went over the tests and the correct answers. Not sure you are suppose to do that. Moved, sixth grade another district, same IQ test. Suddenly, I became a genius. Eighth grade, move again, same damn IQ test, like I said, now it is comical. Now I got teachers and principals falling over me.

Hell, I wasn't that smart. I could take a test, and damn, I could actually remember the right answer.

 

[Woodznutz]

That is why hours of flying time accompanies the written test. This is the case for most professional licenses. They also require supervised experience.

True. I aced my private pilot flight test but had several wrong answers on the written test. That said both tests are harder today.

 

[Hafar1014]

I guess by reading that disaster, we can assume you went to one of those schools.

My typo doesnt change the fact that you dont have a valid point.

 

[IM2]

For me, those tests got comical. I moved around a lot when I was young. One school district in the fifth grade, took and IQ test. Afterwards, the teacher actually went over the tests and the correct answers. Not sure you are suppose to do that. Moved, sixth grade another district, same IQ test. Suddenly, I became a genius. Eighth grade, move again, same damn IQ test, like I said, now it is comical. Now I got teachers and principals falling over me.

Hell, I wasn't that smart. I could take a test, and damn, I could actually remember the right answer.

Yep. The thing about those tests was in grade school when you finished with each part early, we got recess. In jr high and high school, we got to go home. Very few kids cared abut thir score.

 

[Lisa558]

https://archive.is/UltFX

As Leftists institutions have gradually diminished the importance of standardized testing (e.g., the SAT) in the admissions process, they have lost their ability to accept the Best and the Brightest. This development is mainly the result of the fact that armies of public school teachers have long resented the fact that THEY sucked at standardized tests.

The basic fact remains: The only way to ascertain whether a student has learned anything is a TEST, and the only way to make tests efficacious is to standardize them across the population.

The Everybody-Gets-a-Trophy crowd continues destroying the culture.

The reason the leftists have diminished the importance of - or even the requirement for - standardized tests such as the SAT or ACT is because blacks, as a group, score much worse than whites - including the whites they get jumped over for admission. They are trying to hide how much worse black acceptees do than white rejectees.

 

[evenflow1969]

True. I aced my private pilot flight test but had several wrong answers on the written test. That said both tests are harder today.

My most recent license test was for 100 ton Captains license. Experience required but no test on the boat itself. Been a long time since I took pilots license test. At my age I do not have the attention span nor memory I use to. Studying was more difficult. Not sure wether tests are harder or I am just not the man I use to be.

 

[SweetSue92]

I think you are conflating schoolhouse learning with life experience. Students don't have life experience yet; they are still kids. I have grad school student tenants that don't know how to flatten an Amazon box.

Experiences almost always include some form of learning, unless there is significant cognitive impairment. That's first. Second, children have a LOAD of life experience even as babies. Imagine coming out of the womb being completely dependent and almost unaware. Then in just one year's time, you've learned so many things these children put US to shame.

 

[Woodznutz]

My most recent license test was for 100 ton Captains license. Experience required but no test on the boat itself. Been a long time since I took pilots license test. At my age I do not have the attention span nor memory I use to. Studying was more difficult. Not sure wether tests are harder or I am just not the man I use to be.

I think interest in the subject enhances learning. I'm more interested in the rules of flying now than when I was younger. I may take it up again as I can better afford it now.

 

[Woodznutz]

Experiences almost always include some form of learning, unless there is significant cognitive impairment. That's first. Second, children have a LOAD of life experience even as babies. Imagine coming out of the womb being completely dependent and almost unaware. Then in just one year's time, you've learned so many things these children put US to shame.

Kids today are too "smart" for their own good.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My typo doesnt change the fact that you dont have a valid point.

Never said I did. Perhaps you should search for your ' key!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Lower test scores are an indictment of the educational system as well as the students. Everyone is a victim of liberal permissiveness.

Well, you got one part right!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

https://archive.is/UltFX

As Leftists institutions have gradually diminished the importance of standardized testing (e.g., the SAT) in the admissions process, they have lost their ability to accept the Best and the Brightest. This development is mainly the result of the fact that armies of public school teachers have long resented the fact that THEY sucked at standardized tests.

The basic fact remains: The only way to ascertain whether a student has learned anything is a TEST, and the only way to make tests efficacious is to standardize them across the population.

The Everybody-Gets-a-Trophy crowd continues destroying the culture.

The problem with standardized tests is that they are standardized for those that take them and not everyone.

Many states and school districts adopted the ACT or SAT as their measure for accountability at the high school level. That means, Little Johnny who has failed three grades and is a 19-year-old junior and has zero chance of ever going to college is forced to sit in a classroom for 4 hours and take a test he has zero intention of passing. His incentive? Just do your best! If you get not a single question right, you are still not going to college, so what is he wasting his time for?

One of my greatest pet peeves is homeschoolers who claim they get higher scores on standardized test than regular public and private school students. They forget that the concept of average means that their scores are placed in with kids who have zero intention of doing well on the test and could not care less. Homeschoolers want to go to college, so they study, take test prep classes, and try their hearts out! They obviously should do better because they have voluntarily taken the test. That is not the case in schools where the test is mandated.

I proctored the ACT for my high school during the mandatory administration for about 10 years. I also was a paid proctor for the tests that the ACT administers in regional locations several times a year. The differences could not be more apparent. Kids showed up on the weekend and had themselves or their parents pay to take this test because they wanted to go to college. Every student worked until the last possible second on each and every section of the test. In the classroom administration, half of the class would wake up when a sections' time was called because they had "Christmas tree"d their answer sheets and took a nap after a hard night of playing video game the previous night. The most common error was answering the same question twice.

Remember the flirtation with college requiring students to take the writing portion of these "standardized" tests? When most colleges dropped the requirement, participation in the writing section ceased to exist. We would ave 200 students taking the ACT and a grand total or two or three would take the writing portion.

There was no incentive to take the test and give yourself a bad case of writer's cramp in the process.

Those tests are useless for comparison because they are not in fact standardized in any way. The College Board will not tell you that because then no one would take them.

Why do you think many colleges did away with the testing in their admissions process? It was because the tests were absolutely useless!

 

[DGS49]

Despite all the naysaying (mainly from public school teachers), the SAT has proven itself over generations to predict a student's POTENTIAL FOR PERFORMANCE of college-level work.

What people forget is that the people who write the tests are academics themselves, with no particular axe to grind. And they continually respond to feedback on particular lines of questions.

The real "issue" with the tests is that they reveal the academic deficiencies of Blacks and Hispanics. In the 70's claims were made that the tests contained "cultural bias," but this was debunked quickly.

It is yet another example of the same old, same old. When reality becomes a problem, create your own reality.

 

[Lisa558]

Despite all the naysaying (mainly from public school teachers), the SAT has proven itself over generations to predict a student's POTENTIAL FOR PERFORMANCE of college-level work.

What people forget is that the people who write the tests are academics themselves, with no particular axe to grind. And they continually respond to feedback on particular lines of questions.

The real "issue" with the tests is that they reveal the academic deficiencies of Blacks and Hispanics. In the 70's claims were made that the tests contained "cultural bias," but this was debunked quickly.

It is yet another example of the same old, same old. When reality becomes a problem, create your own reality.

Absolutely! The kids who score high in elementary school standardized tests also score high on their SATs a decade later, and their scores are predictive of success in college as well.

And you are correct that the reason for getting rid of these tests is to hide that blacks with lower scores get admitted to prestigious programs while whites with higher scores get rejected from the same program.

That is why TJ High School for the Sciences - a competitive public school in northern VA - got rid of their entrance exam. They didn’t like that the Asians were the ones acing the test, and the blacks were doing so poorly on it that the school had only 3% blacks. So….they just eliminated it so they could reject better qualified Asians and admit blacks in their place.

Pure racism.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Despite all the naysaying (mainly from public school teachers), the SAT has proven itself over generations to predict a student's POTENTIAL FOR PERFORMANCE of college-level work.

What people forget is that the people who write the tests are academics themselves, with no particular axe to grind. And they continually respond to feedback on particular lines of questions.

The real "issue" with the tests is that they reveal the academic deficiencies of Blacks and Hispanics. In the 70's claims were made that the tests contained "cultural bias," but this was debunked quickly.

It is yet another example of the same old, same old. When reality becomes a problem, create your own reality.

Then why do we test people with zero potential to go to college? That defeats the purpose doesn't it?

My college roommate dropped out after 2 years of college. We were both computer science majors after dropping out of aerospace engineering because aerospace engineering was so computer-based that you needed to know the computer science to do anything and it was a brand-new field nearly 50 years ago. I stayed in school but had to get a history degree because the computer science degree was growing so rapidly, I couldn't keep up with the new courses they were requiring. He went to work for Radio Shack and learned by doing on the computers. He never attended college again. I made a decent living in the military and a poor sustenance as a teacher, but he kept his education growing by teaching himself. He aced his ACT and SAT but never graduated from college. He is now a VP of Bank of America in charge of computer security and standardization and makes well over 6 figures a year. He is by far the smartest person I have ever met and yet he has two less college degrees than I have.

 

[Lisa558]

Then why do we test people with zero potential to go to college? That defeats the purpose doesn't it?

My college roommate dropped out after 2 years of college. We were both computer science majors after dropping out of aerospace engineering because aerospace engineering was so computer-based that you needed to know the computer science to do anything and it was a brand-new field nearly 50 years ago. I stayed in school but had to get a history degree because the computer science degree was growing so rapidly, I couldn't keep up with the new courses they were requiring. He went to work for Radio Shack and learned by doing on the computers. He never attended college again. I made a decent living in the military and a poor sustenance as a teacher, but he kept his education growing by teaching himself. He aced his ACT and SAT but never graduated from college. He is now a VP of Bank of America in charge of computer security and standardization and makes well over 6 figures a year. He is by far the smartest person I have ever met and yet he has two less college degrees than I have.

You can always come up with individual examples and exceptions.

But statistically, SAT scores are highly predictive of college success.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You can always come up with individual examples and exceptions.

But statistically, SAT scores are highly predictive of college success.

Maybe. As the average gets dumbed down, how good are the average students?

My English SATs and ACTs were about average, yet I excelled in my college classes as they were easy As. Why? I worked a hell of a lot harder than I did in high school!

 

[sparky]

Then why do we test people with zero potential to go to college? That defeats the purpose doesn't it?

correct me if i'm off Admiral, but how does a parent know how well his/her child has done in HS?

~S~