Some of the most Patriotic Americans I know are "Muslim"

[Psychoblues]

They have no wish to convert anyone. Their idea of a heretic is of one that persecutes or punishes them for no reason. Their perception of freedom is to be allowed to go about their lives and earning a living without interference or excessive taxation by their government. Their love for their children, their country, the USA is equal to my own. Some of you cats just ain't exposed to enough truth. You don't know your own neighborhood. Get out there and get yourselves an education, for your own and your country's good!!!!!!!!!

 

[nbdysfu]

A heretic is someone who is labeled so because orthodox or conservative leaders percieve them to be twisting the faith into something it is not.

In western society, catholicism, these 'heretics' were actually reformists who sought to change the established practice of religion. Martin Luther would be an example. Your friends are 'heretics' to be patriots to the US and I mean that in the sense that I believe they are contradicting the established schools of Islam by embracing western government. I think they have many friends in Iran who feel about the same.

 

[Psychoblues]

OK,,,,,,,,your point being? What is a shool? Are "catholics" heretics? I don't think my friends are heretics at all but I think any hater that distorts the words of Jesus and is quick to call others "heretics" is indeed a heretic themself.

 

[nbdysfu]

Thanks for the spell check

A heretic may be of any religion, though he is labelled a heretic by the clerics of his religion on the grounds that the person has consciously chosen to abandon some of the rules set by the religion's institution.

 

[nbdysfu]

A heretic is not necessarily negative in connotation.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
They have no wish to convert anyone. Their idea of a heretic is of one that persecutes or punishes them for no reason. Their perception of freedom is to be allowed to go about their lives and earning a living without interference or excessive taxation by their government. Their love for their children, their country, the USA is equal to my own. Some of you cats just ain't exposed to enough truth. You don't know your own neighborhood. Get out there and get yourselves an education, for your own and your country's good!!!!!!!!!

I don't think that the majority of people in this country believe muslims, as a whole, to be bad people. I live in the largest city in the country and I have never met someone who didn't understand that the muslims who are trying to kill us are the renegades and have perverted the koran.

Muhammad ali is one of the most famous muslims in the country and I doubt most people aren't aware of his conscientious objector status.

Just as it's easy to characterize any white people who don't agree with all one's beliefs as racist or crackers or whatever else I've been referred to as on this board just because I am a conservative, it's just as easy for people to call the enemy muslim. What they should be saying is the enemy is the enemy.

 

[Psychoblues]

I think you make the best point, Moi. It's easy to characterize a particular religion, race or ethnicity to be something other than what it actually is. Where we should concentrate our war efforts is on the enemies of us, Americans. They are out there and even here as well. They know no particular religion, race or ethnicity despite their claims to the contrary. They are zealots of whatever fundamentalism they believe in and they don't take diversity well.

I would give my life as a soldier fighting for the rights of a muslim American as soon as I would a christian American or an atheist American. In my time in the war zones I never considered anything other than getting the bastards that were trying to kill me, personally. That's it and I don't know of another GI that considered anything else either. Again, I'm delving off into a subject probably too involved for most to keep up with. But I speak the truth.

 

[cptpwichita]

the life of mohammad presented in the hadiths is a model for muslims on how to live there lives if they wish to follow the example of mohammad.what you will find is a life filled with violence,theft,torture,assainations,rape,murder,pedophilia,war,human slave trade etc...people just don't take the time to read and investigate or they would find there was really 2 mohammads, the pre-power mohammad and the post-power mohammad it all comes down to which one you prefer.this also explains why you get entirely 2 different kind of muslims.another reason is alot of muslims are like easter and christmas christians who seldom read there bibles.do you even know what a fundamentalist is?it is someone who interprets literally and is more likely to study and practice there faith more rigidly than non-fundamentalists.while fundamentalist christians tend to live a christ like life fundamentalist muslims tend to live a mohammad like life.so when a christian commits an act of violence it is in direct opposition to both the new testament and the life of christ but when a muslim commits an act of violence he can find justification in both the koran(remember earlier i talked about the changing mohammad there are an even greater number of verses dealing with violence against the unbeliever) and the life of mohammad which puts great perspective on the koran(why do you think the islamic world wanted salaman rushdie dead).i leave you with this-And as they went,they entered a village of the samaritans,to prepare for him.but they did not recieve him,because his face was set for the journey to jerusalem.and when his desciples james and john saw this,they said,"lord,do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them,just as elijah did?but he turned and rebuked them,and said,"you do not know what manner of spirit you are of.for the son of man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them.and they went to another village.
what would mohammad have done?

 

[phadras]

The last I saw there are less than 4 million Muslims in this country..
I live in Oklahoma and there is a large contingent of Muslims here.. But I doubt they are MOST PATRIOTIC... Islam has a real cancer and NONE of their leaders will acknowledge this... Patriotic? Hell most of them are here cuz of the Shah's fall in Iran not because they love this country...

 

[cptpwichita]

i have to call bush out on him calling islam a"peaceful religion".
either bush is misleading people in an effort to get votes(he is lying) or he has not spent very much time or any time to know if this is true and is just telling us what someone told him(he should not be making uninformed statements as fact trying to appear as if he has researched this thouroughly) or he is afraid if he tells the truth it will lead to violence(against muslims and fuel the terrorist to commit more acts of terrorism against the u.s.).
am i wrong?since i have read the koran and hadiths and knowing any open-minded person to do so would say it is not peaceful and history has proven that.or he is just not smart enough to understand the koran and hadiths.what do you think of this?

 

[wonderwench]

Originally posted by phadras
The last I saw there are less than 4 million Muslims in this country..
I live in Oklahoma and there is a large contingent of Muslims here.. But I doubt they are MOST PATRIOTIC... Islam has a real cancer and NONE of their leaders will acknowledge this... Patriotic? Hell most of them are here cuz of the Shah's fall in Iran not because they love this country...

That shows how little you know.

A good friend of mine escaped from Iran as the Shah fell. She is part of an extended community of Iranian refugees in the Bay Area. A couple of years ago, I went to a July 4th party at her house. It was the most patriotic party I ever attended.

The house was festooned with flags. They served a flag cake, and other red, white & blue dishes. But beyond the physical displays, they expressed an enormous appreciation for the liberty they have in America. It was incredibly touching.

I do not believe that they are unique in this regard. I have often observed that immigrants are more appreciative of America than are many of the native born.

 

[William Joyce]

Yeah, they appreciate our doggy style, as Snoop Dogg would say. But they don't love us.

Look, I have very little against the Iranians. Beautiful people, beautiful history, beautiful culture. Liked the Shah better than the Ayatollah, but hey, that's just me. Currently, they're being threatened with oblivion by Jews. I hope Jews don't get their way, but that's just the anti-Semite in me talking.

Still and all. When you decide to let everyone into the house, it ceases to be a home.

 

[Zhukov]

Currently, they're being threatened with oblivion by Jews.

I think you have that backwards.

http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/bu/iran/je_apa.htm

 

[cptpwichita]

i agree with khukov

 

[wonderwench]

William Joyce,

YUO = MAROON

 

[mr right]

Yeah, and some of the most vile terrorists we know are Muslims, and yet Timothy McVeigh wasn't Muslim, and not all Muslims are terrorists, and not all white people can't dance, and I met a white guy who can jump, and I met a black guy who can't rap, and I met a girl who makes more money than me at my position.

What I am saying is we can't lump all Muslims into the "terrorist" category, just like we can't lump all Catholic priests into the "pedophile" category. The good ones are mostly quiet, the bad ones are the most prominent. This is what needs to change.

 

[cptpwichita]

still the religion of islam through its teachings and sacred writings(koran and hadiths) is a breeding ground for violent behaviour against those who are non-believers and especially those who would speak critically against the koran and the prophet mohammed.

 

[mrbitterness]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
They have no wish to convert anyone. Their idea of a heretic is of one that persecutes or punishes them for no reason. Their perception of freedom is to be allowed to go about their lives and earning a living without interference or excessive taxation by their government. Their love for their children, their country, the USA is equal to my own. Some of you cats just ain't exposed to enough truth. You don't know your own neighborhood. Get out there and get yourselves an education, for your own and your country's good!!!!!!!!!

Yea, but you're just referring to Muslims in the US, in general. Same for the jews, we don't call them JAPS (Jewish American Princess) back in Israel. Those are only exceptions.

A Muslim might practise charity, does all the good he can,so does it mean they're trying to convince others that converting to Islam will lead them to seventh heaven when they die? No, so why are you even talking about CONVERSION TO ISLAM ?

 

[Snakecharmer]

There is a growing fear of Islam among the Christians nowadays. Why not be scared of Judaism or Hinduism, or Buddhism or Sikhism? It’s because they fear that this might actually be the correct religion and that they might be the ignorant ones. They accept other religions with open arms because they are sure in their hearts that these religions are phoney (I’m not saying that they are).
In the Bible, the coming of an updated version of the religion is foreseen and so is the coming of the last prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H.). So condemning the Muslims is what they feel they should do because (heaven forbid!) they should embrace it! People are scared and like their ignorance and therefore they insist on making people who possibly might want to embrace this religion, ignorant too and controlling their minds to think like theirs. Nobody stops to ask why they condemn Islam, they just do because they are driven to by their subconscious love of ignorance. It puts a whole new meaning to the words “ignorance is bliss!”.
And the suicide bombers... doesn’t ANYONE stop to ask why people are doing these things and that for one second they might be the cause? Suicide bombers CANNOT be Muslims! It says so in the Qu’ran. If you commit suicide you are taking the easy way out of the tests of life. And to kill another person is an unforgivable crime (unless of course it was a total accident). But people choose not to learn these things about Islam and just write off all Muslims as terrorists(as always - there are exceptions of course), whereas, in contrast, The whole point of Islam is to be a good person at heart and help those less fortunate than yourself. It a mix of destiny and choices (eg: the amount of money you will have in your life has already been decided – what you intend to do with it is up to you [but Islam says that you should spend a good amount of it on the poor – unless you are poor yourself]).
Scientifically there is no flaw in the Qu’ran whereas in the Bible there are quite a few. There is this book, the name I can’t remember, by a Christian scientist trying to find all the scientific flaws with each: Christianity, Judaism and Islam and he found the most flaws in Judaism, a fair amount in Christianity and NONE with Islam – and he converted. (And example would be about how long the earth existed – the Church therefore does not recognise that dinosaurs ever lived).
Drugs and intoxicants are forbidden by Islam and now there is all the proof anyone could ask for as to why.
And the very early Jews of the time of the birth of Islam, refused to accept the religion because Mohammed was not a Jew himself and was not from Israel, when everyone in the world (hopefully) knows that race and color of skin is of no significance.
So I say it again – there is a LARGE subconscious fear that Islam might be right and so people hide behind their ignorance and try to “have fun” because this religion is too much responsibility to handle. But the “fun” they have now – could cost them an eternity in hell if they are not careful.
But if you are a GOOD person and your good deeds outweigh your bad – then you don’t stand much chance of loosing out on heaven in ANY religion.

 

[cptpwichita]

1.mohammed was an evil man and he was islams founder.the hadiths(which are holy to islam) speaks of mohammed as a rapist,pedophile,polygamist,liar,murderer,torturer,thief,assassin,human slave trader,etc.etc.etc.

2.mohammed said that a muslim CAN NOT be held guilty for killing a non-muslim.mohammed also allowed his followers to kill people who made fun of him and even who disagreed with him.

3.mohammed let his followers rape women,he allowed for beating of wives,said women were mentally deficient and most people in hell were women.

4.allowed vicious torture(pulling apart by camels of an old women,torture to aquire treasure, and as revenge he had mens eyes put out and their hands cut off and refused them water as they were dying a torturous death).

5.was a pirate and thief,keeping 1/5 of all booty and his share of women who were frequently raped and then ransomed in fact mohammed raided caravans for almost 2 years.

6.science?mohammed thought camel piss was good for you,jinn(devils) lived in holes in the ground,jinn slept in your nose at night,mountains hold the earth down to prevent earthquakes,the world is flat,babies are born because of sperm(right)and a clot of blood(wrong),etc.etc.etc.

7.gods blessings should exist most in nations were there are the most muslims.they don't.

8.muslim nations fight muslim nations and most terrorists are muslim(i haven't heard of many jewish terrorist groups,and don't try and say israel is a terrorist group or america is a terrorist nation).

9.can you share with me where in the koran allah talks about love for human beings?could you give me a few please.

10.Allah was a pagan god with 3 daughters if he is the god of abraham woundn't you call him jehovah or elohim.is he the same pagan god and if not why the name Allah if judaism,christianity,and islam all serve the same god(interestingly all with different rules and regulations)