Solar energy is dead

[mdn2000]

Prove it, you run your mouth and ignore your links, as in the wind power thread of yours,

I haven't looked at that thread in a week. If you posted anything I am sure it isn't worth reading.

I linked to Southern California Edison, how are links to politicians more credible than the utility I pay, how are politicians and government links more credible than my actual bill? You wont answer this.

are you retarded? Links to a US government site ranking national utility costs are as good as it gets. And it simply makes no difference if your own personal rate is higher, so is mine, but the state average is what counts.

Your bill doesn't reflect the state average so it is worthless.

And you can't even understand the links that you post.

The cement plant that you posted about did not close because of electrical rates, the link said so explicitly. You just can not understand the article.

No, a government site is not as good as it gets, especially when I post the rates that the utility charges, its that simple, I post the rates of the utility and you claim the government rate which is half of what I pay is good, your either a moron or an asshole with an ideology non-conducive to living liberty.

The state average is not what counts, and the rate you posted is not the state average, not at all. I pay at least twice that much for electricity.

Since this thread began I have been in Arizona, if you noticed the pictures of desert you ignore, I am in the Phoenix desert, I have taken a survey, just last night, I asked people what they pay in electricity for I know, a woman last spring when I was here stated her electric bill is 400$ in summer, yesterday three people, a single man stated 200$, another man stated 350$ a month, a woman stated 550$ a month in summer.

Are they all liars as well, should they accept your post that they pay less.

I pay more than you stated, twice as much. The government is not more accurate than my bill.

 

[mdn2000]

California wants high speed rail, can solar power high speed rail.

of course it can. Are you mentally ill?

Your arguing about dust and dirt in the desert, of course everyone else seems mental when you can not grasp that there is dust and sand in the desert.

You lived in the desert, bullshit, your a liar, if your not a liar your a political troll spreading detrimental propaganda.

 

[mdn2000]

Maybe you should elaborate. Venezuela has extensive reserves of heavy sour crude that they are exploiting. What's the downside?

I'm asking because shale requires an enormous amount of water in the extraction process. He's claiming so much water is required for solar, ... well, water requirement is also one of the many reasons shale is not viable either. Unless, perhaps, they can figure out a way to redirect the Colorado river or something.

Thanks. Fresh water is wasted by the cubic acre in ordinary oil drilling exploits.

Yes, that is correct, and demand has increased for oil to make solar panels so you have stated another hidden environmental impact of solar.

 

[mdn2000]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

Maybe you should elaborate. Venezuela has extensive reserves of heavy sour crude that they are exploiting. What's the downside?

I'm asking because shale requires an enormous amount of water in the extraction process. He's claiming so much water is required for solar, ... well, water requirement is also one of the many reasons shale is not viable either. Unless, perhaps, they can figure out a way to redirect the Colorado river or something.

your right, and again as I stated to loosecannon, that oil goes to produce solar panels and pump water to solar power plants in the desert, this is the hidden impact of Solar energy.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now mdn, would you care to demonstrate where this solar plant uses water?

http://www.power-technology.com/projects/victorville/

 

[Old Rocks]

And in what manner do these photovoltaic panels use water when generating electricity?

First Solar Sells 30 Megawatt Solar Photovoltaic Power Project to Southern Company and Turner Renewable Energy | Renewable Energy Sources - Photovoltaic, Geothermal, Wind Plus Much More

TEMPE, Ariz., Mar 15, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) — First Solar, Inc. (Nasdaq:FSLR) today announced it has sold a 30 megawatt (AC) photovoltaic solar power project to Southern Company (NYSE:SO) and Turner Renewable Energy. Financial terms of the transaction were not disclosed.

The Cimarron I Solar Project is adjacent to the Vermejo Park Ranch in northern New Mexico. First Solar developed the project and is providing engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) services. First Solar will also provide operation and maintenance services under a 25-year contract. The facility will supply power to approximately 9,000 homes, or 18,000 residents, and displace over 45,000 tons of CO2 per year.

"The Cimarron I project is yet another example of First Solar’s capability to realize utility-scale solar projects," said Rob Gillette, First Solar chief executive officer. "Combining the required technology, manufacturing, project development and EPC expertise enables First Solar to be a leader in sustainable energy development."

 

[Old Rocks]

Of course, if you use reflective mirrors to heat water to steam, then you need water. At first. In a desert, you don't just vent the water vapor to the atmosphere, you recover it. So the use of water after the initial startup is very small.

Of course, such a simple peice of engineering is beyond mdn's capability to imagine.

 

[loosecannon]

Now mdn, would you care to demonstrate where this solar plant uses water?

Victorville Solar Power Generating Station, California - Power Technology

Why bother with him, Rocks, he's plumb loco. And he apparently doesn't realize it, which makes this hilarious.

 

[loosecannon]

Of course, if you use reflective mirrors to heat water to steam, then you need water. At first. In a desert, you don't just vent the water vapor to the atmosphere, you recover it. So the use of water after the initial startup is very small.

Of course, such a simple peice of engineering is beyond mdn's capability to imagine.

He was already confronted with just such a power plant or 7 in CA and he still insisted furiously that they need water and kill sacred endangered turtles.

mdn is looney.

 

[mdn2000]

Of course, if you use reflective mirrors to heat water to steam, then you need water. At first. In a desert, you don't just vent the water vapor to the atmosphere, you recover it. So the use of water after the initial startup is very small.

Of course, such a simple peice of engineering is beyond mdn's capability to imagine.

He was already confronted with just such a power plant or 7 in CA and he still insisted furiously that they need water and kill sacred endangered turtles.

mdn is looney.

Looney, not much of an insult coming from a "Headline driven" fanatic.

Water is still the issue, if you look beyond headlines, look at the Environment Impact study.

http://www.nrel.gov/csp/troughnet/pdfs/40025.pdf

Anyone with half a brain knows all Solar projects require water, given that they are building Solar on public land in the desert with scarce water, water is a huge factor.

Too bad people are hypocrites, ignorant hypocrites, for Solar Power farms consume massive amounts of natural resources during manufacturing of the panels, millions of tons of CO2 are released into the environment.

Use more raw materials at a faster rate to make Solar Power plants which produce less energy from a larger amount of raw material,

Solar, more in, less out.

Another Corporate/Government robbery, take from the public, give to the rich

 

[mdn2000]

Here is but one example of people addressing the issue of water use by Solar Power plants. Now if they could only address the destruction of hundreds of square miles of public land. I am not aware of any projects approved by Obama that are not giving public land to massive corporations. Take the newest Solar project approved, Chevron is being given public land, Chevron gets to destroy thousands of acres of land, not to mention Chevron will sell the oil used to manufacturer the solar panels.

A huge waste of natural resources, from silica to natural gas.

Self-cleaning solar panel technology may make large-scale installations more feasible | Science Codex

Self-cleaning solar panel technology may make large-scale installations more feasible

posted on: august 22, 2010 - 6:50pm


BOSTON, Aug. 22, 2010 — Find dusting those tables a chore? Dread washing the windows? Imagine keeping dust and grime off objects spread out over an area of 25 to 50 football fields. That's the problem facing companies that deploy large-scale solar power installations, and scientists today presented development of one possible solution — self-dusting solar panels, based on technology developed for space missions to Mars.

In a report at American Chemical Society (ACS) meeting, they described how a self-cleaning coating on the surface of solar cells could increase the efficiency of producing electricity from sunlight and reduce maintenance costs for large-scale solar installations.

 

[JiggsCasey]

What's your solution to our undeniable energy crisis then?

A day will come when you, your kids, and your grandkids will WISH we put up the renewable infrastructure, costs be damned.

Because any way you slice it, peak oil is here, and the global food conveyor belt that relies on cheap energy to function is slowly going away. Hope you know basic horticulture.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hell, mdn doesn't know basic anything.

 

[Old Rocks]

Of course, if you use reflective mirrors to heat water to steam, then you need water. At first. In a desert, you don't just vent the water vapor to the atmosphere, you recover it. So the use of water after the initial startup is very small.

Of course, such a simple peice of engineering is beyond mdn's capability to imagine.

He was already confronted with just such a power plant or 7 in CA and he still insisted furiously that they need water and kill sacred endangered turtles.

mdn is looney.

Looney, not much of an insult coming from a "Headline driven" fanatic.

Water is still the issue, if you look beyond headlines, look at the Environment Impact study.

http://www.nrel.gov/csp/troughnet/pdfs/40025.pdf

Anyone with half a brain knows all Solar projects require water, given that they are building Solar on public land in the desert with scarce water, water is a huge factor.

Too bad people are hypocrites, ignorant hypocrites, for Solar Power farms consume massive amounts of natural resources during manufacturing of the panels, millions of tons of CO2 are released into the environment.

Use more raw materials at a faster rate to make Solar Power plants which produce less energy from a larger amount of raw material,

Solar, more in, less out.

Another Corporate/Government robbery, take from the public, give to the rich

Silly ass. Photovoltaic, thermal solar, even Stirling engines. None of these use water in the process of producing electricity.

 

[Old Rocks]

Just for mdn;
Biggest Solar Deal Ever Announced ? We’re Talking Gigawatts | Wired Science | Wired.com

The largest series of solar installations in history, more than 1,300 megawatts, is planned for the desert outside Los Angeles, according to a new deal between the utility Southern California Edison and solar power plant maker, BrightSource.

The momentous deal will deliver more electricity than even the largest nuclear plant, spread out among seven facilities, the first of which will start up in 2013. When fully operational, the companies say the facility will provide enough electricity to power 845,000 homes — more than exist in San Francisco — though estimates like that are notoriously squirrely.

The technology isn’t the familiar photovoltaics — the direct conversion of sunlight into electricity — but solar thermal power, which concentrates the sun’s rays to create steam in a boiler and spin a turbine.

"We do see solar as the large untapped resource, particularly in Southern California," said Stuart Hemphill, vice president of renewable energy and power at Southern California Edison. "It’s barely tapped and we’re eager to see it expand in our portfolio."



Read More Biggest Solar Deal Ever Announced ? We’re Talking Gigawatts | Wired Science | Wired.com

Now this one does use water. Bet they recycle it. Water is not something you waste in California.

 

[Old Rocks]

Two Gigawatts of photovoltaic power for China. Hmmm......

First Solar To Build 2-Gigawatt Solar Power Plant in China - Environmental Capital - WSJ

Solar-panel maker First Solar is cracking open the Chinese market, which could become one of the world’s most promising for solar power.


Arizona-based First Solar said today it signed a deal with Chinese officials to build a 2,000 megawatt solar-power plant in Inner Mongolia over the next decade at an estimated cost of $5 billion to $6 billion.

UPDATE: That figure is apparently what it would cost to build a similar plant in the U.S. today; building a large plant in China in the future would likely cost less, due to labor costs especially, say First Solar spokesmen.

For First Solar, which already has contracts to build smaller, though still utility-size, solar-power plants in the U.S., the Chinese deal could be a game-changer. “If you have two gigawatts, it could change the image of solar power from niche to nuclear-plant-size installations,” said First Solar chief executive Mike Ahearn in an interview.

The deal also shows, First Solar says, that China isn’t necessarily slamming the door on foreign competition in the clean-energy space. “I think they clearly want to be working with advanced technology and they’re looking for low-cost solutions,” Mr. Ahearn added.

 

[Old Rocks]

By damn, solar seems to be flopping a lot to be considered dead.

5 GigaWatt Solar Power Field To Be Built In South Africa | Solar Power

South Africa has recently unveiled plans for building world’s biggest solar energy park, which, according to officials, will be capable of producing about 5GW of clean electricity.

The country is more than 90% dependent on coal-fired power stations and one in six people still lacks electricity: “In South Africa over 90% of our power comes from the burning of coal and we need to reduce this because of our international obligations on climate change,” said Jonathan de Vries, the project manager

 

[Old Rocks]

FuturePundit: 2010 10 Gigawatts Solar Power Install Expected

June 14, 2010
2010 10 Gigawatts Solar Power Install Expected
Eric Wesoff of Green Tech Media reports on their projection that well over 10 gigawatts of solar cells will be installed in 2010.


In 2010, we will cross the threshold of 10 gigawatts of photovoltaic solar installed globally in a single year -- a record-setting and once-inconceivable number.

Rewind to ten years ago: the total amount of photovoltaics installed in the year 2000 was 170 megawatts. Since then, the solar photovoltaic industry has grown at a 51 percent annual growth rate, and 170 megawatts is now the size of a healthy utility installation or a small solar factory.

Contrast that with 200 gigawatts of wind installation this year. Wind continues to far surpass solar power due to lower costs.

 

[mdn2000]

What's your solution to our undeniable energy crisis then?

A day will come when you, your kids, and your grandkids will WISH we put up the renewable infrastructure, costs be damned.

Because any way you slice it, peak oil is here, and the global food conveyor belt that relies on cheap energy to function is slowly going away. Hope you know basic horticulture.

There is no renewable energy, its a canard, a false premise. The green energy people are proposing using natural resources at a faster rate to produce power plants that produce little to zero energy.

Use oil faster, use more oil, to make more windmills, and when we run out of oil how do we make windmills. How is it a benefit, you make less energy using more, how does that make sense to you. Maybe we should start building more cars to save energy, never mind if we drove old cars longer that saves more energy than throwing away five hundred pound batteries every few years from our hybrid cars.

Take any generator from a wind farm, hook it up to a nuke power plant and you have saved energy, it is nothing but a waste of energy to make a solar panel that at best works a third of the time. Pure waste of the energy you wish to save.

 

[mdn2000]

Hell, mdn doesn't know basic anything.

Hey, remember that time you said you worked at a steel smelting plant that used only electricity and when I said you needed natural gas Old Crock said no, remember that, you posted a link to show I was wrong but Old Crock's link showed that you need natural gas to make steel.

Or how about the time you said geothermal worked but one minor design flaw at a particular plant, then Old Crock linked to an article that was old that stated geothermal was going to recover precious metals and make a fortune, remember that, remember how the plant that was going to make millions was actually the same plant you stated had a design flaw, that was real funny, saying geothermal works, explaining how it did not in one case because of a design flaw, then unwittingly using the flawed plant as an example of a profit being made when the plant never operated.

Old Crock, you are a riot, how about that time you referenced a study except you could not link to the study because it was not wrote, again, to funny.

I should check you links here, if I get bored.