Solar energy is dead

[loosecannon]

Apparently you have never driven from Phoenix to LA Or anywhere in New Mexico. The road is peppered with signs warning about Dust storms and advising you do not drive through them and do not stop along the road in them.

Similar signs can be found through out the Desert SW of the US.

I lived in all of those places.

The wind in northern Arizona is older than Meteor Crater, but the blinding dust storms that have crippled nearby Interstate 40 are new.

That dust blasts out of the desert in billowing walls, blinding drivers and shutting down about 30 miles of interstate east of Flagstaff for hours, leaving thousands stranded each time.

Until last year, Highway Patrol officials had never closed I-40, but they have shut down the east-west artery 10 times this spring, including twice on May 22-23.

The full picture of what's causing the dust storms remains a mystery. There have been more frequent days of winds upward of 45 mph, but state and weather officials say that doesn't explain why it is kicking up so much grit.

"That's the million-dollar question: Where is it coming from, and how do you stop it?" said Mackenzie Nuño, an Arizona Department of Transportation spokeswoman.

Whatever the answer, the effect has been nothing but misery for motorists.

From 2000 through 2008, the state Department of Public Safety logged no dust-related collisions between Milepost 215, east of Flagstaff, and Milepost 260, just east of Winslow. Last year, Highway Patrol cars responded to 11 such accidents, and so far this year, five.

Read more: Officials baffled by intense dust storms on I-40

See! It is extremely rare, even a mystery when dust storms occur in the SW!

 

[mdn2000]

Yes CO2 impacts, California's version of cap and trade, tax all forms of fossil energy and raise the rates of electricity.

Try again,

Why try again, you were 100% wrong and I astutely pointed that out. Electrical rates have nothing to do with that plant closing.

Nothing.

So, sorry I wrote so fast, maybe you could read slower, take a deep breath.

The American Spectator : California?s Green Nightmare

A Riverside construction company, CalPortland Cement, announced in late 2009 it was closing its plant because of AB 32's impending regulations.

Last year, researchers at the college of business at California State University in Sacramento estimated that higher energy prices from AB 32 will increase consumers' food, utility, and housing costs by $50 billion. That's the equivalent of a 4.5 percent sales tax on most consumer items Californians buy. Small business costs would rise by $60 billion annually to pay for a policy that will have at best a microscopic impact on global temperatures

 

[mdn2000]

Sorry I did not make it clear that the cement company was moving due to electrical rates being too high. AB 32 is stated it the article, that is California's climate change law that mandates the kind of electricity I will use, let me re-word that, the government is dictating exactly what source electricity will come from, California is dictating the price, California is forcing the people to pay more money for electricity at the same time California is taxing us at a higher rate and giving my money to their friends who own the Green Energy companies.

actually no.

The article did not say that the plant was shutting down because it's electrical rates would increase. In fact it said that the plant would close due to it's CO2 impacts. Cement manufacture requires lots of energy in the form of heat, but more importantly the chemistry involved in the process produces vast quantities of CO2.

You just assumed otherwise. I read the article, you should try that.

You read the article, I take this statement as the truth, thank you for telling the truth

Quote the portion of the article that states, " the plant would close due to it's CO2 impacts."

Anyhow, I await another response or maybe you will ignore the post.

Loosecannon, where are you on the electrical rates, seeing how you gave up quickly I will count that as another point for me,

Water is still the number one Solar Killer and thus far you ignore the pictures of dust from the desert, you ignore the picture of the dust devil, your response is the desert has sand.

Water, not one person can dispute the obstacle of water, valid is the post that points out cost can be passed on to consumers, which means higher taxes, borrowing against the future to fund the budget, subsidy to the solar plant in the form of water, scarce resource taken from the people given to the rich for profit.

Solar is dead, Water is the issue.

 

[mdn2000]

How about these neat photos I just took, Phoenix or Los Angeles, guess what is between me and home, looks like a lot of desert. Imagine, the seriousness of the topic compared to the argument made by the proponents of Green Energy such as Solar.

I literally have to go outside and take photos, from this post to my next.

I can and have taken photos of everything I speak of, I am in Phoenix today, San Bernardino County by Thursday.

No need to argue about sand, dust, dirt, and minerals that make up the extreme environment of the desert, no facts have been presented.

Dust, Dirt, and Minerals in the desert, that is one

Water, that is two

Cement plants and energy costs, that is three.

Electrical rates, that is four

That is four points you have lost.

Solar is Dead, Water is the #1 obstacle.

 

[loosecannon]

Yes CO2 impacts, California's version of cap and trade, tax all forms of fossil energy and raise the rates of electricity.

Try again,

Why try again, you were 100% wrong and I astutely pointed that out. Electrical rates have nothing to do with that plant closing.

Nothing.

So, sorry I wrote so fast, maybe you could read slower, take a deep breath.

The American Spectator : California?s Green Nightmare

A Riverside construction company, CalPortland Cement, announced in late 2009 it was closing its plant because of AB 32's impending regulations.

Last year, researchers at the college of business at California State University in Sacramento estimated that higher energy prices from AB 32 will increase consumers' food, utility, and housing costs by $50 billion. That's the equivalent of a 4.5 percent sales tax on most consumer items Californians buy. Small business costs would rise by $60 billion annually to pay for a policy that will have at best a microscopic impact on global temperatures

But you still don't get it, the costs of electricity are NOT what is causing the cement plant to close. READ you article.

 

[loosecannon]

Quote the portion of the article that states, " the plant would close due to it's CO2 impacts."

You already quoted that part 3 times and you still do not understand it.

Loosecannon, where are you on the electrical rates, seeing how you gave up quickly I will count that as another point for me,

CA rates are 7th highest in the nation.

Water, not one person can dispute the obstacle of water

It's been disputed, you are just daft.

 

[loosecannon]

Dust, Dirt, and Minerals in the desert, that is one

Water, that is two

Cement plants and energy costs, that is three.

Electrical rates, that is four

That is four points you have lost.

Solar is Dead, Water is the #1 obstacle.

you were wrong about all of those.

Earth to fool: dirt on the ground is not dust, dust is airborne.

 

[mdn2000]

So know facts presented, complete denial, Loosecannon, how much do I pay for electricity, what you posted as my cost was wrong, I gave you the link and posted the rate schedule, what you posted as the rate I pay is wrong, if that rate is wrong how is your post correct about anything concerning what I pay.

The document you posted in which you got 7th from is wrong about the rate I pay for electricity, its much too low. I pay more. You have gall to tell me I pay less.

On water you state you can catch all you need on site yet not one site can supply all its needs, you read a headline and post an article, go to the project environmental impact study, many are online.
Water is not my opinion, its fact, lawsuits are happening right now, the solar farms have subsidy money in which to offset the detrimental impact the solar plant will have on local water.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/sitingcases/abengoa/documents/applicant/2010-06-01_Applicants_Opening_Testimony_TN-56970.pdf

Abengoa Solar Inc.
Mojave Solar Project
09-AFC-5
Applicant’s Opening Testimony
Submitted to the
California Energy Commission
Submitted by
Abengoa Solar Inc.
June 1, 2010

Water is the issue, Solar is dead, where do you get the water, base it in reality, here is one project,
They may win, buy someone off with the subsidy money, which is my money, taken from me, given to the rich.

Loosecannon claims the water issue is solved because loosecannon says it is but when confronted with links to the public departments where we can read every relevant document loosecannon simply claims because loosecannon says so, water is not a problem.

Water is an obstacle that can not be moved, it may be bought for a little time, Obama did give billions of dollars to Solar companies so they can buy their way out of trouble.

Here is a project, tell us how the issue is resolved by rain gutters.

My electrical rate, tell me what it is, you volunteered one rate which was wrong, you think california is 7th based on a document you posted which listed an incorrect figure as the rate I pay.

On top of these huge errors of understanding on your part you claim there are no dust devils near these solar farms, there are no dust storms, you know nothing of the desert.

I just posted a picture of dust I picked up off the ground, right off of I-10 as seen in the sign in the photo I posted, and you still present a feeble argument, feeble is being kind to you.

Solar is dead

Loosecannon loses on this point in this thread.

Why else would Loosecannon ignore this post at the same time claiming he is right in a later post.

 

[Old Rocks]

You can today buy solar laminates that you paste on whatever you choose. At less than a dollar a watt. The technology is advancing rapidly on two fronts. Creation of very cheap panels, the goal a dollar a watt or less. And increasing efficiency by changing the materials that we use. From q-dots to graphene, the goal for efficiency has moved from 20%+, already acheived, to 50% and even higher.

And the people manufacturing Solar cannot keep up with demand. Solar is not only alive, it is thriving and growing at an astounding rate.

 

[Old Rocks]

Just one company

First Solar Planning U.S. Manufacturing Plant That Would Add 600 New Jobs

Earlier this year the company also completed an expansion of its Perrysburg, Ohio, manufacturing plant, which serves as First Solar's primary hub for engineering, research and development. The Perrysburg operation employs more than 1,100 of First Solar's 1,500-plus U.S.-based workers. First Solar said the new plants, combined with the previously announced expansions, will nearly double its production capacity from 1.4 gigawatts in 2010 to more than 2.7 gigawatts in 2012.

 

[Old Rocks]

And if you really want to see what is going on worldwide concerning the increasing use and manufacture of solar power

Solar Energy Manufacturing News Summary

 

[loosecannon]

So know facts presented, complete denial, Loosecannon, how much do I pay for electricity, what you posted as my cost was wrong, I gave you the link and posted the rate schedule, what you posted as the rate I pay is wrong, if that rate is wrong how is your post correct about anything concerning what I pay.

I am sorry dude, but the rates I posted were a week old and came from a US government source. My personal elect rates are higher too, but that hardly matters.

You keep harping about some victory about 5 successive points.

BUT YOU WERE WRONG IN EACH CASE!

Maybe you should just argue with yourself. You might win that argument.

Meanwhile you are so boring that I can't even read 1/12th of what you post.

You think solar is dead, and you are always wrong.

Nuf sed.

 

[Zander]

Solar is dead?? Hmm...

cow farts are destroying the earth!!!

unless.......

 

[mdn2000]

Water is the number one obstacle to Solar Power.

There is a way around this, massive government subsidies, government mandates, government regulations, government taxes on competition, government mandates higher electrical rates charged to families, the largest users of electricity.

One thing Loosecannon refused to do was address electrical rates, loosecannon did post a rate that was wrong, what loosecannon refused to do was show how expensive electricity is and how that cost is now only because of solar and wind power.

I linked the page directly to Southern California Edison that explains rates, Loosecannon could not correct his mistake thus it seems Loosecannon ignored the post and the link. Loosecannon failed to correct his post, my point of the expense of solar power stands.

Cost kills Solar, Solar power is dead

 

[Big Fitz]

I have lived in the desert, dudette

Get together with your other desert denizens who decide to disagree, dip.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yep, solar is so dead that Oregon will soon be producing gigawatts of solar cells.

Solar power in Oregon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mdn2000]

Mandated by law, higher electrical rates mandated by law, and this is just the beginning. No problem the entire left coast is a welfare state, the cost passed on to the rest of the nation as well as higher electrical rates for the people of Oregon.

Talk about progress, pay more for less,

Renewable Energy Costs You, Whether You Like It or Not - The Oregon Catalyst

by Todd Wynn Friday, March 12. 2010
Portland General Electric (PGE) customers may have noticed something new on their bills recently. Last month, a “renewable resource adjustment” was added to electricity bills to pay for additional renewable resources like wind power. Even if you are not enrolled in the Green Power Program, all PGE customers are forced to pay for renewable energy. According to PGE, ratepayers can thank their legislators for this added electricity cost.

In 2007, Oregon legislators passed a Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS), forcing major utilities to procure 25% of their electricity from new renewable resources by 2025. With much fanfare, Governor Kulongoski claimed that this would be “protecting ratepayers with more stable and predictable utility rates.” Environment Oregon also claimed that ratepayers will save money by having utilities invest in wind energy instead of in fossil fuels. They were wrong.

 

[JiggsCasey]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

 

[loosecannon]

Water is the number one obstacle to Solar Power.

solar requires next to no water.

One thing Loosecannon refused to do was address electrical rates, loosecannon did post a rate that was wrong, what loosecannon refused to do was show how expensive electricity is and how that cost is now only because of solar and wind power.

I posted a current US government report. far more credible than you and the links you post but don't know how to read.

I linked the page directly to Southern California Edison that explains rates, Loosecannon could not correct his mistake thus it seems Loosecannon ignored the post and the link. Loosecannon failed to correct his post, my point of the expense of solar power stands.

However you have a proven disability to read and understand your links so nobody takes you seriously.
Admit that the power plant in CA was not closed due to electrical rates and you might be worth a few minutes of time/day.

Otherwise, stop lying.

 

[loosecannon]

I have lived in the desert, dudette

Get together with your other desert denizens who decide to disagree, dip.

OK so everybody doesn't agree. I posted a link that says the AZ dept of transpo considers dust storms freak events that they can't explain.

Whatchu got?