Solar energy is dead

[loosecannon]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

Maybe you should elaborate. Venezuela has extensive reserves of heavy sour crude that they are exploiting. What's the downside?

 

[mdn2000]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

I like light sweat crude, its more economical to develop. I need to know more about the chemical characteristics of oil, I have a two volume set of books on oil I just begun reading, I am only up to 1850 when bio-fuel was developed, turning plant oil to a usable product is older technology than refining petroleum.

Our energy policy should be to develop and use the most economical energy, today that is light sweet crude.

Unfortunately we need more oil to meet the rapid rise in demand for wind farms. Without more petroleum production we cannot build wind farms. We must use oil faster then before in order to meet demand, at that we do not have the production capacity to meet the demand for production of the raw materials and energy needed to build Wind farms as well as Solar farms.

If its economically competitive without subsidies, than that is what we should use.

At the same time research the technology we would use to make Heavy Crude more competitive.

 

[mdn2000]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

Maybe you should elaborate. Venezuela has extensive reserves of heavy sour crude that they are exploiting. What's the downside?

Downside to Venezuela, Marxism, those fields we developed and sub-sequentially were "taken" from the rightful owners to become state property.

 

[mdn2000]

Water is the number one obstacle to Solar Power.

solar requires next to no water.

One thing Loosecannon refused to do was address electrical rates, loosecannon did post a rate that was wrong, what loosecannon refused to do was show how expensive electricity is and how that cost is now only because of solar and wind power.

I posted a current US government report. far more credible than you and the links you post but don't know how to read.

I linked the page directly to Southern California Edison that explains rates, Loosecannon could not correct his mistake thus it seems Loosecannon ignored the post and the link. Loosecannon failed to correct his post, my point of the expense of solar power stands.

However you have a proven disability to read and understand your links so nobody takes you seriously.
Admit that the power plant in CA was not closed due to electrical rates and you might be worth a few minutes of time/day.

Otherwise, stop lying.

Prove it, you run your mouth and ignore your links, as in the wind power thread of yours, I challenge you to support your link, I challenge you to go to the thread and put your money where your mouth is.

I linked to Southern California Edison, how are links to politicians more credible than the utility I pay, how are politicians and government links more credible than my actual bill? You wont answer this.

 

[mdn2000]

Water is the number one obstacle to Solar Power.

solar requires next to no water.

I posted a current US government report. far more credible than you and the links you post but don't know how to read.

I linked the page directly to Southern California Edison that explains rates, Loosecannon could not correct his mistake thus it seems Loosecannon ignored the post and the link. Loosecannon failed to correct his post, my point of the expense of solar power stands.

.

You just proved you do not read, the first link I posted is the following, notice that it is a .gov site. My link is to a government report and you are stating government reports are more credible than anything else, so you make my point.

Loosecannon, you are great, as in the Wind Power thread, you were wrong and proved you were wrong. Loosecannon again proves he is wrong, imagine, stating its the government reports that are the most credible, and this threads first link making the point solar is dead is to a government report.

Solar is dead, loosecannon states "Government reports are more credible", loosecannon affirms the truth and accuracy of my premise and assertion that Solar is dead

 

[mdn2000]

Loosecannon:I posted a current US government report. far more credible than you and the links you post but don't know how to read

Can you read, take a look at my government link to a government report.

Thats right, Solar is dead, non sustainable.

Seems someone forgot about the lack of water in the Arizona and California desert

http://ndep.nv.gov/news/temp_news/water093009.pdf

September 30, 2009
Alternative Energy Projects Stumble on a
Need for Water
By TODD WOODY

AMARGOSA VALLEY, Nev. — In a rural corner of Nevada reeling from the recession,
a bit of salvation seemed to arrive last year. A German developer, Solar Millennium,
announced plans to build two large solar farms here that would harness the sun to
generate electricity, creating hundreds of jobs.
But then things got messy. The company revealed that its preferred method of cooling the
power plants would consume 1.3 billion gallons of water a year, about 20 percent of this
desert valley’s available water.

In California, solar developers have already been forced to switch to less water-intensive
technologies when local officials have refused to turn on the tap. Other big solar projects
are mired in disputes with state regulators over water consumption.
To date, the flashpoint for such conflicts has been the Southwest, where dozens of
multibillion-dollar solar power plants are planned for thousands of acres of desert.

I think that is sufficient to begin. All solar power plants consume water, at the very least each plant must keep the mirrors or collectors clean of dust, there is a lot of dust in the desert. The water required to clean one solar power plant is millions of gallons of water.

Add the drought in California, the over use of the Colorado river, depleting the aquifers, the better use of water in agricultural food production.

Solar energy is dead.

 

[JiggsCasey]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

Maybe you should elaborate. Venezuela has extensive reserves of heavy sour crude that they are exploiting. What's the downside?

I'm asking because shale requires an enormous amount of water in the extraction process. He's claiming so much water is required for solar, ... well, water requirement is also one of the many reasons shale is not viable either. Unless, perhaps, they can figure out a way to redirect the Colorado river or something.

 

[mdn2000]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

Maybe you should elaborate. Venezuela has extensive reserves of heavy sour crude that they are exploiting. What's the downside?

I'm asking because shale requires an enormous amount of water in the extraction process. He's claiming so much water is required for solar, ... well, water requirement is also one of the many reasons shale is not viable either. Unless, perhaps, they can figure out a way to redirect the Colorado river or something.

No disagreement here, if this was your post I missed sorry, its a good point and that is what should be compared, the cost of water for any specific project. I am against government funding projects to bring or give water to corporations looking for a water subsidy.

Water subsidies are some the biggest if not the biggest subsidies corporations benefit from.

Remember boys and girls, wikipedia is not a source, links to wikipedia must be handled with caution and extreme care. For this purpose, to establish the name and author of some of the knowledge I have attained so that I can pass this on to those who wish to learn I provide a great source of information, history, and fact on the subject of water in the west.

Some may of seen the PBS documentary.

Cadillac Desert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cadillac Desert
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the book. For the documentary, see Cadillac Desert (film).
Cadillac Desert, by Marc Reisner, is a 1986 book published by Viking (ISBN 0-14-017824-4) about land development and water policy in the western United States. Subtitled The American West and its Disappearing Water, it gives the history of the Bureau of Reclamation and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and their struggle to remake the American West. The book's main conclusion is that development-driven policies, formed when settling the West was the country's main concern, are having serious long-term negative effects on the environment and water quantity. The book was revised and updated in 1993.

A four-part television documentary based on the revised book was produced by KTEH-TV, the PBS affiliate in San Jose, California, in 1996. The parts are entitled Mulholland’s Dream, An American Nile, The Mercy of Nature, and The Last Oasis.

 

[editec]

Green energy works, just replace a bulldozer with 100 men with shovels!

Luddites RULE!

Yeah but those men (the selfish bastards!) will demand water too.

There's a Methusian solution to mankinds energy problems, though.

A nice particularly effective plauge would solve mankind's energy problem and a whole host of other problems (social and economic) waiting in the wings, too.

Not to put down technological advances and market solutions, of course.

In good times those two forces can kill excess mankind very effectively.

But neither of them is really capable of solving mankinds looming energy (and other) problems quickly enough.

Hey before you guys dismiss this as some kind of joke, be aware that the world we live in today, the world of modern capitalism that we all think is pretty neat, would never have come to pass had not our good friends ratus ratus been generous enough to to share Yersinia pestis, with us.

We'd still be some kind of feudal society where the vast majority of us never used money had it not been for our friends the rats, and their delightfully effective social problem solving bubonic plague, folks.

Historically speaking Yersinia pestis has probably done more to hekp mankind change its destiny than all the inventiveness and scholarship mankind has ever discovered.

 

[mdn2000]

Water and Solar, anyone who thinks Solar is the solution must answer can Solar provide the electricity to pump water. That answer is no.

Solar Power cannot provide the electricity to pump water, Solar Power is dead.

http://www.circleofblue.org/waternews/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/EPRI-Volume-4.pdf

Electricity Consumption Projections
The baseline regional electricity consumption projections for supply of fresh water by public
water supply agencies is shown graphically in Figure 2-2 and in tabular form in the Appendix.
Electricity consumption is estimated at about 30 billion kWh for the year 2000. This is expected
to reach about 36 billion kWh by the year 2020 and 46 billion kWh by 2050.

 

[edthecynic]

Water and Solar, anyone who thinks Solar is the solution must answer can Solar provide the electricity to pump water. That answer is no.

Solar Power cannot provide the electricity to pump water, Solar Power is dead.

http://www.circleofblue.org/waternews/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/EPRI-Volume-4.pdf

Electricity Consumption Projections
The baseline regional electricity consumption projections for supply of fresh water by public
water supply agencies is shown graphically in Figure 2-2 and in tabular form in the Appendix.
Electricity consumption is estimated at about 30 billion kWh for the year 2000. This is expected
to reach about 36 billion kWh by the year 2020 and 46 billion kWh by 2050.

So if solar can't provide the energy to pump and treat ALL the water supply in the US then it can't pump enough water to rinse off some dust on its panels. BRILLIANT!!!!

 

[Big Fitz]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

Maybe you should elaborate. Venezuela has extensive reserves of heavy sour crude that they are exploiting. What's the downside?

they screw up his faith. That's the downside. Technology to extract and efficiently refine non-perfect oils peaked in the 1970's in his mind.

 

[mdn2000]

Water and Solar, anyone who thinks Solar is the solution must answer can Solar provide the electricity to pump water. That answer is no.

Solar Power cannot provide the electricity to pump water, Solar Power is dead.

http://www.circleofblue.org/waternews/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/EPRI-Volume-4.pdf

Electricity Consumption Projections
The baseline regional electricity consumption projections for supply of fresh water by public
water supply agencies is shown graphically in Figure 2-2 and in tabular form in the Appendix.
Electricity consumption is estimated at about 30 billion kWh for the year 2000. This is expected
to reach about 36 billion kWh by the year 2020 and 46 billion kWh by 2050.

So if solar can't provide the energy to pump and treat ALL the water supply in the US then it can't pump enough water to rinse off some dust on its panels. BRILLIANT!!!!

That is not the point I made, its just the beginning, like this, can solar be used to pump water just in the states where solar is located. That is a better question, or can Solar be used to provide just the increase in energy needed every year. On top of that can Solar provide electricity for its own manufacturing, on both points it fails.

California wants high speed rail, can solar power high speed rail.

 

[JiggsCasey]

they screw up his faith. That's the downside. Technology to extract and efficiently refine non-perfect oils peaked in the 1970's in his mind.

Show where I ever once said that, you unrivaled forum fraud.

What I said was that U.S. domestic production of light crude peaked in 1970-1971. That's a documented fact.

 

[loosecannon]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

I like light sweat crude, its more economical to develop. I need to know more about the chemical characteristics of oil, I have a two volume set of books on oil I just begun reading, I am only up to 1850 when bio-fuel was developed, turning plant oil to a usable product is older technology than refining petroleum.

Our energy policy should be to develop and use the most economical energy, today that is light sweet crude.

You admit to not knowing anything about oil but assume to know that we should use the cheapest oil available? As if there were no other considerations?

You are very young and dumb no doubt.

Earth to mdn: light sweet crude is almost gone. Heavy sour and worse is most of what is left to exploit.

 

[loosecannon]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

Maybe you should elaborate. Venezuela has extensive reserves of heavy sour crude that they are exploiting. What's the downside?

Downside to Venezuela, Marxism, those fields we developed and sub-sequentially were "taken" from the rightful owners to become state property.

You mean purchased, and the oil companies didn't bitch about the price. Grow up.

 

[loosecannon]

Prove it, you run your mouth and ignore your links, as in the wind power thread of yours,

I haven't looked at that thread in a week. If you posted anything I am sure it isn't worth reading.

I linked to Southern California Edison, how are links to politicians more credible than the utility I pay, how are politicians and government links more credible than my actual bill? You wont answer this.

are you retarded? Links to a US government site ranking national utility costs are as good as it gets. And it simply makes no difference if your own personal rate is higher, so is mine, but the state average is what counts.

Your bill doesn't reflect the state average so it is worthless.

And you can't even understand the links that you post.

The cement plant that you posted about did not close because of electrical rates, the link said so explicitly. You just can not understand the article.

 

[loosecannon]

not sure if you answered, mdn, but how do you feel about Bakken oil shale?

Big fan of heavy oils, are you?

Maybe you should elaborate. Venezuela has extensive reserves of heavy sour crude that they are exploiting. What's the downside?

I'm asking because shale requires an enormous amount of water in the extraction process. He's claiming so much water is required for solar, ... well, water requirement is also one of the many reasons shale is not viable either. Unless, perhaps, they can figure out a way to redirect the Colorado river or something.

Thanks. Fresh water is wasted by the cubic acre in ordinary oil drilling exploits.

 

[loosecannon]

Green energy works, just replace a bulldozer with 100 men with shovels!

Luddites RULE!

Yeah but those men (the selfish bastards!) will demand water too.

There's a Methusian solution to mankinds energy problems, though.

A nice particularly effective plauge would solve mankind's energy problem and a whole host of other problems (social and economic) waiting in the wings, too.

Not to put down technological advances and market solutions, of course.

In good times those two forces can kill excess mankind very effectively.

But neither of them is really capable of solving mankinds looming energy (and other) problems quickly enough.

Hey before you guys dismiss this as some kind of joke, be aware that the world we live in today, the world of modern capitalism that we all think is pretty neat, would never have come to pass had not our good friends ratus ratus been generous enough to to share Yersinia pestis, with us.

We'd still be some kind of feudal society where the vast majority of us never used money had it not been for our friends the rats, and their delightfully effective social problem solving bubonic plague, folks.

Historically speaking Yersinia pestis has probably done more to hekp mankind change its destiny than all the inventiveness and scholarship mankind has ever discovered.

your link redirects to "page not found".

 

[loosecannon]

California wants high speed rail, can solar power high speed rail.

of course it can. Are you mentally ill?