Shootings in Britain

[Vagabond63]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

Tommy, we are allowed guns in the UK; there are almost 2 million shotguns, rifles and pistols legally owned for sport and target shooting. The difference between the UK and the USA, is that our nut-cases and psychos have a very difficult, if not impossible time, getting hold of them legally.

All American psychos have to do is go to a gun fair and pay for whatever they want; then wander into churches, shopping malls and schools and start shooting. There were 49 mass shootings in America so far this month according to Wikipedia, List of mass shootings in the United States in 2020 - Wikipedia

So where were all these "good guys with guns" that are supposed to prevent these shootings?

Oh, these were mass shootings, wounder how many non "mass" shootings there have been in America during July? You know, the ones that are so commonplace they no longer make the papers.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

Tommy, we are allowed guns in the UK; there are almost 2 million shotguns, rifles and pistols legally owned for sport and target shooting. The difference between the UK and the USA, is that our nut-cases and psychos have a very difficult, if not impossible time, getting hold of them legally.

All American psychos have to do is go to a gun fair and pay for whatever they want; then wander into churches, shopping malls and schools and start shooting. There were 49 mass shootings in America so far this month according to Wikipedia, List of mass shootings in the United States in 2020 - Wikipedia

So where were all these "good guys with guns" that are supposed to prevent these shootings?

Oh, these were mass shootings, wounder how many non "mass" shootings there have been in America during July? You know, the ones that are so commonplace they no longer make the papers.

Those arent real guns though. We need machine guns to be really safe from assailants and the deep state.

 

[Vagabond63]

According to you, the mere ownership of guns should have increased the crime rate....instead, as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down...showing that there is nothing wrong with normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense.....

Point out to me please, where I have ever stated more guns carried by civilians increase crime. You are projecting your own domestic arguments into our discussion. I advocate that:

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.
2. Anyone who wants to own a gun, should receive mandatory extensive training on its use and how to store it safely and securely. The individual should pass a basic level of marksmanship test to prove they can use the weapon without endangering themselves or others.
3. Anyone who wants to own a gun must apply for and pass psych evaluations and background checks to obtain a licence to own a firearm.
4. Each firearm purchase should be recorded at point of sale and the record kept in a central database so
if they sell or give away the weapon, the transfer of ownership should be recorded.
5. Guns can only be used on approved firing ranges or by licenced hunters.

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

Police-recorded offences involving a knife or sharp instrument rose to 46,265 for the year to March, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Friday.

*sigh* Knife "offences" include carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3" without having good reason. It also includes carrying screwdrivers or other sharp instruments without good reason. The number of actual stabbings is much lower as is the actual number of homicides. The rise in "knife crime" is largely due to changes and improvements in recording practices. In reality an average of 2-300 people are stabbed to death in the UK every year.

 

[Mac-7]

What you don't understand.....you really don't understand a lot.....is that Europe is used by our anti-gun extremists to justify our anti-gun laws.......the fact that gun control does not work in Europe shows it won't work here.....

What he said

OldLady: have you never hear domestic gun grabbers to to the euro's as their inspiration?

I have many many times

 

[2aguy]

According to you, the mere ownership of guns should have increased the crime rate....instead, as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down...showing that there is nothing wrong with normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense.....

Point out to me please, where I have ever stated more guns carried by civilians increase crime. You are projecting your own domestic arguments into our discussion. I advocate that:

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.
2. Anyone who wants to own a gun, should receive mandatory extensive training on its use and how to store it safely and securely. The individual should pass a basic level of marksmanship test to prove they can use the weapon without endangering themselves or others.
3. Anyone who wants to own a gun must apply for and pass psych evaluations and background checks to obtain a licence to own a firearm.
4. Each firearm purchase should be recorded at point of sale and the record kept in a central database so
if they sell or give away the weapon, the transfer of ownership should be recorded.
5. Guns can only be used on approved firing ranges or by licenced hunters.

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

Police-recorded offences involving a knife or sharp instrument rose to 46,265 for the year to March, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Friday.

*sigh* Knife "offences" include carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3" without having good reason. It also includes carrying screwdrivers or other sharp instruments without good reason. The number of actual stabbings is much lower as is the actual number of homicides. The rise in "knife crime" is largely due to changes and improvements in recording practices. In reality an average of 2-300 people are stabbed to death in the UK every year.

And each one of your points would limit the Right out of existence as they have already done in Britain.

The micro stamp tech doesn't exist and can't work......licensing and training requirements are no different than the Literacy tests we used to have here for the Right to vote when the democrat party wanted to keep Black Americans from voting....

We already have point of sale tracking...at the gun stores.....anything else is registration which your country showed would simply be used to confiscate guns when our gun grabbers get the power to do it.

 

[2aguy]

According to you, the mere ownership of guns should have increased the crime rate....instead, as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down...showing that there is nothing wrong with normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense.....

Point out to me please, where I have ever stated more guns carried by civilians increase crime. You are projecting your own domestic arguments into our discussion. I advocate that:

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.
2. Anyone who wants to own a gun, should receive mandatory extensive training on its use and how to store it safely and securely. The individual should pass a basic level of marksmanship test to prove they can use the weapon without endangering themselves or others.
3. Anyone who wants to own a gun must apply for and pass psych evaluations and background checks to obtain a licence to own a firearm.
4. Each firearm purchase should be recorded at point of sale and the record kept in a central database so
if they sell or give away the weapon, the transfer of ownership should be recorded.
5. Guns can only be used on approved firing ranges or by licenced hunters.

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

Police-recorded offences involving a knife or sharp instrument rose to 46,265 for the year to March, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Friday.

*sigh* Knife "offences" include carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3" without having good reason. It also includes carrying screwdrivers or other sharp instruments without good reason. The number of actual stabbings is much lower as is the actual number of homicides. The rise in "knife crime" is largely due to changes and improvements in recording practices. In reality an average of 2-300 people are stabbed to death in the UK every year.

A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.

Yes....this is pointless busy work that does nothing.....already tried in a few places and didn't help in any way...

If the gun is stolen then what is the point.....the average street life of a gun before the police find it is about 12 years...do you know how many different criminals will have used that gun before it is caught by the police?

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.


As to solving crimes....it doesn't...
Ten Myths Of The Long Gun Registry | Canadian Shooting Sports Association


Myth #4: Police investigations are aided by the registry.
Doubtful. Information contained in the registry is incomplete and unreliable. Due to the inaccuracy of the information, it cannot be used as evidence in court and the government has yet to prove that it has been a contributing factor in any investigation. Another factor is the dismal compliance rate (estimated at only 50%) for licensing and registration which further renders the registry useless. Some senior police officers have stated as such: “The law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered ... the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.” Former Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino, January 2003.


-----

https://www.quora.com/In-countries-...olved-at-least-in-part-by-use-of-the-registry



Tracking physical objects that are easily transferred with a database is non-trivial problem. Guns that are stolen, loaned, or lost disappear from the registry. The data is has to be manually entered and input mistakes will both leak guns and generate false positive results.

Registries don’t solve straw-purchases. If someone goes through all of the steps to register a gun and simply gives it to a criminal that gun becomes unregistered. Assuming the gun is ever recovered you could theoretically try and prosecute the person who transferred the gun to the criminal, but you aren’t solving the crime you were trying to. Remember that people will prostitute themselves or even their children for drugs, so how much deterrence is there in a maybe-get-a-few-years for straw purchasing?

Registries are expensive. Canada’s registry was pitched as costing the taxpayer $2 million and the rest of the costs were to be payed for with registration fees. It was subject to massive cost overruns that were not being met by registrations fees. When the program was audited in 2002 the program was expected to cost over $1 billion and that the fee revenue was only expected to be $140 million.

No gun recovered. If no gun was recovered at the scene of the crime then your registry isn’t even theoretically helping, let alone providing a practical tool. You need a world where criminals meticulously register their guns and leave them at the crime scene for a registry to start to become useful.

Say I have a registered gun, and a known associate of mine was shot and killed. Ballistics is able to determine that my known associate was killed with the same make and model as the gun I registered. A registry doesn’t prove that my gun was used, or that I was the one doing the shooting. I was a suspect as soon as we said “known associate” and the police will then being looking for motive and checking for my alibi.

 

[2aguy]

According to you, the mere ownership of guns should have increased the crime rate....instead, as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down...showing that there is nothing wrong with normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense.....

Point out to me please, where I have ever stated more guns carried by civilians increase crime. You are projecting your own domestic arguments into our discussion. I advocate that:

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.
2. Anyone who wants to own a gun, should receive mandatory extensive training on its use and how to store it safely and securely. The individual should pass a basic level of marksmanship test to prove they can use the weapon without endangering themselves or others.
3. Anyone who wants to own a gun must apply for and pass psych evaluations and background checks to obtain a licence to own a firearm.
4. Each firearm purchase should be recorded at point of sale and the record kept in a central database so
if they sell or give away the weapon, the transfer of ownership should be recorded.
5. Guns can only be used on approved firing ranges or by licenced hunters.

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

Police-recorded offences involving a knife or sharp instrument rose to 46,265 for the year to March, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Friday.

*sigh* Knife "offences" include carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3" without having good reason. It also includes carrying screwdrivers or other sharp instruments without good reason. The number of actual stabbings is much lower as is the actual number of homicides. The rise in "knife crime" is largely due to changes and improvements in recording practices. In reality an average of 2-300 people are stabbed to death in the UK every year.

And this too, is dumb and pointless....600 million guns in the U.S.........you do realize that as a gun is repeatedly fired it changes the pattern...right?

A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.

Baltimore....the democrat party controlled city with gun crime issues....tried what you wanted...it failed...miserably.

Millions of dollars later, Maryland has officially decided that its 15-year effort to store and catalog the "fingerprints" of thousands of handguns was a failure.

Since 2000, the state required that gun manufacturers fire every handgun to be sold here and send the spent bullet casing to authorities. The idea was to build a database of "ballistic fingerprints" to help solve future crimes.

But the system — plagued by technological problems — never solved a single case. Now the hundreds of thousands of accumulated casings could be sold for scrap.

"Obviously, I'm disappointed," said former Gov. Parris N. Glendening, a Democrat whose administration pushed for the database to fulfill a campaign promise. "It's a little unfortunate, in that logic and common sense suggest that it would be a good crime-fighting tool."

The database "was a waste," said Frank Sloane, owner of Pasadena Gun & Pawn in Anne Arundel County. "There's things that they could have done that would have made sense. This didn't make any sense."
------

In a old fallout shelter beneath Maryland State Police headquarters in Pikesville, the state has amassed more than 300,000 bullet casings, one from each new handgun sold here since the law took effect. They fill three cavernous rooms secured by a common combination lock.
Each casing was meticulously stamped with a bar code, sealed in its own envelope and filed in boxes stacked from floor to ceiling. Forensic scientists photographed the casings in hopes the system would someday identify the owner of a gun fired at a crime scene. The system cost an estimated $5 million to set up and operate over the years.
But the computerized system designed to sort and match the images never worked as envisioned. In 2007, the state stopped bothering to take the photographs, though hundreds of thousands more casings kept piling up in the fallout shelter.
-----

Worse, the system Maryland bought created images so imprecise that when an investigator submitted a crime scene casing, the database software would sometimes spit out hundreds of matches. The state sued the manufacturer in 2009 for $1.9 million, settling three years later for $390,000.

Maryland scraps gun "fingerprint" database after 15 failed years

Millions of dollars later, Maryland has officially decided that its 15-year effort to store and catalog the "fingerprints" of thousands of handguns, was a failure. Since 2000, the state required that gun manufacturers fire every handgun to be sold here and send the spent bullet casing to...

www.baltimoresun.com

 

[2aguy]

According to you, the mere ownership of guns should have increased the crime rate....instead, as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down...showing that there is nothing wrong with normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense.....

Point out to me please, where I have ever stated more guns carried by civilians increase crime. You are projecting your own domestic arguments into our discussion. I advocate that:

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.
2. Anyone who wants to own a gun, should receive mandatory extensive training on its use and how to store it safely and securely. The individual should pass a basic level of marksmanship test to prove they can use the weapon without endangering themselves or others.
3. Anyone who wants to own a gun must apply for and pass psych evaluations and background checks to obtain a licence to own a firearm.
4. Each firearm purchase should be recorded at point of sale and the record kept in a central database so
if they sell or give away the weapon, the transfer of ownership should be recorded.
5. Guns can only be used on approved firing ranges or by licenced hunters.

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

Police-recorded offences involving a knife or sharp instrument rose to 46,265 for the year to March, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Friday.

*sigh* Knife "offences" include carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3" without having good reason. It also includes carrying screwdrivers or other sharp instruments without good reason. The number of actual stabbings is much lower as is the actual number of homicides. The rise in "knife crime" is largely due to changes and improvements in recording practices. In reality an average of 2-300 people are stabbed to death in the UK every year.

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.


More...you don't understand the issues....

That's because, on average, most guns used in crimes were bought nearly 15 years prior, according to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. By the time they end up on the street, they've often been stolen and resold illegally.
-----

In the fall of 2014, state police issued a report that showed the program had solved no crimes and was costing more than ever. A sweeping gun-control law passed in 2013 — and the surge in gun sales that resulted — created a backlog and state police had to hire eight people just to organize the nearly 60,000 bullet casings sent in that year. In the report, police again suggested the program had merit.

Maryland scraps gun "fingerprint" database after 15 failed years

Millions of dollars later, Maryland has officially decided that its 15-year effort to store and catalog the "fingerprints" of thousands of handguns, was a failure. Since 2000, the state required that gun manufacturers fire every handgun to be sold here and send the spent bullet casing to...

www.baltimoresun.com

 

[2aguy]

According to you, the mere ownership of guns should have increased the crime rate....instead, as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down...showing that there is nothing wrong with normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense.....

Point out to me please, where I have ever stated more guns carried by civilians increase crime. You are projecting your own domestic arguments into our discussion. I advocate that:

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.
2. Anyone who wants to own a gun, should receive mandatory extensive training on its use and how to store it safely and securely. The individual should pass a basic level of marksmanship test to prove they can use the weapon without endangering themselves or others.
3. Anyone who wants to own a gun must apply for and pass psych evaluations and background checks to obtain a licence to own a firearm.
4. Each firearm purchase should be recorded at point of sale and the record kept in a central database so
if they sell or give away the weapon, the transfer of ownership should be recorded.
5. Guns can only be used on approved firing ranges or by licenced hunters.

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

Police-recorded offences involving a knife or sharp instrument rose to 46,265 for the year to March, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Friday.

*sigh* Knife "offences" include carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3" without having good reason. It also includes carrying screwdrivers or other sharp instruments without good reason. The number of actual stabbings is much lower as is the actual number of homicides. The rise in "knife crime" is largely due to changes and improvements in recording practices. In reality an average of 2-300 people are stabbed to death in the UK every year.

Yes......and criminals will of course follow all of your rules...right?

5. Guns can only be used on approved firing ranges or by licenced hunters.

We have over 18.6 million gun owners who can actually carry guns for self defense.....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%, our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your limiting where people can carry guns is pointless......since they aren't the ones shooting other people in the first place and carry their guns responsibly........and criminals can't buy, own or carry guns in the first place.....

 

[2aguy]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

Tommy, we are allowed guns in the UK; there are almost 2 million shotguns, rifles and pistols legally owned for sport and target shooting. The difference between the UK and the USA, is that our nut-cases and psychos have a very difficult, if not impossible time, getting hold of them legally.

All American psychos have to do is go to a gun fair and pay for whatever they want; then wander into churches, shopping malls and schools and start shooting. There were 49 mass shootings in America so far this month according to Wikipedia, List of mass shootings in the United States in 2020 - Wikipedia

So where were all these "good guys with guns" that are supposed to prevent these shootings?

Oh, these were mass shootings, wounder how many non "mass" shootings there have been in America during July? You know, the ones that are so commonplace they no longer make the papers.

Again....I have shown you criminal after criminal in britain with illegal guns and you can't show us which British gun control law kept them from going into churches, schools or malls? Even in Europe, they prefer fully automatic military rifles......

You have no point...

We had a total of 10 mass public shootings in 2019 in a country of over 320 million people and they took place in gun free zones......

10

In a country of over 320 million people.... 73 people were killed...total...

A truck in Nice, France killed 86 and injured 458.

Lawn mowers routinely kill more people each year than mass public shooters do....

Americans use their legal guns to stop, on average, 1.2 million crimes a year, including rapes, robberies and murders...

73 v 1,200,000

Can you tell which number is bigger?

 

[2aguy]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

Tommy, we are allowed guns in the UK; there are almost 2 million shotguns, rifles and pistols legally owned for sport and target shooting. The difference between the UK and the USA, is that our nut-cases and psychos have a very difficult, if not impossible time, getting hold of them legally.

All American psychos have to do is go to a gun fair and pay for whatever they want; then wander into churches, shopping malls and schools and start shooting. There were 49 mass shootings in America so far this month according to Wikipedia, List of mass shootings in the United States in 2020 - Wikipedia

So where were all these "good guys with guns" that are supposed to prevent these shootings?

Oh, these were mass shootings, wounder how many non "mass" shootings there have been in America during July? You know, the ones that are so commonplace they no longer make the papers.

Those arent real guns though. We need machine guns to be really safe from assailants and the deep state.

You are about to get more of them.....

Liverpool gangs 'dominate' gun and drugs trade outside London


Organised criminal gangs from Liverpool have risen to the summit of the UK underworld and “dominate” the firearms and drugs-trade outside London, the latest intelligence from senior officers at the National Crime Agency (NCA) reveals.
---
Analysis of encrypted messages from a communications system used by criminals has shown that the city has become the preeminent location for top-tier gangs sourcing high-volume importations of drugs and automatic weapons.
------

Analysis by the NFTC found that Merseyside and the broader north-west corridor was home to a network of gun factories converting low-calibre weapons such as the Czech-made Škorpion and Slovakian Grand Power into deadly automatic firearms.

Perfect said that converting weapons was seen by some in the region as a viable business.

A low-calibre Glock handgun bought for £135 in eastern Europe could be converted in just 90 seconds to a 9mm weapon that could be sold for up to £5,000.
-----
nalysis of the intelligence from EncroChat has revealed other surprises to firearms officers. Perfect said:

“If you’d asked me before Venetic what was the firearm of choice for an organised crime group, I’d have absolutely said the Glock handgun.
Venetic showed that the Škorpion SMG and the Grand Power are now becoming that weapon of choice.”

 

[2aguy]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

Tommy, we are allowed guns in the UK; there are almost 2 million shotguns, rifles and pistols legally owned for sport and target shooting. The difference between the UK and the USA, is that our nut-cases and psychos have a very difficult, if not impossible time, getting hold of them legally.

All American psychos have to do is go to a gun fair and pay for whatever they want; then wander into churches, shopping malls and schools and start shooting. There were 49 mass shootings in America so far this month according to Wikipedia, List of mass shootings in the United States in 2020 - Wikipedia

So where were all these "good guys with guns" that are supposed to prevent these shootings?

Oh, these were mass shootings, wounder how many non "mass" shootings there have been in America during July? You know, the ones that are so commonplace they no longer make the papers.

There were not 49 mass public shootings you dumb twit.......there were a total of 10 in 2019.....

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2019....10

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


Rental Truck in Nice, France, 86 murdered in 5 minutes...

Total number murdered in mass public shootings by year...

Lawn mower deaths every year.... more than 75

(https://munews.missouri.edu/news-releases/2007/0419-lawn-mowers.php)
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8

http://w

 

[2aguy]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

Tommy, we are allowed guns in the UK; there are almost 2 million shotguns, rifles and pistols legally owned for sport and target shooting. The difference between the UK and the USA, is that our nut-cases and psychos have a very difficult, if not impossible time, getting hold of them legally.

All American psychos have to do is go to a gun fair and pay for whatever they want; then wander into churches, shopping malls and schools and start shooting. There were 49 mass shootings in America so far this month according to Wikipedia, List of mass shootings in the United States in 2020 - Wikipedia

So where were all these "good guys with guns" that are supposed to prevent these shootings?

Oh, these were mass shootings, wounder how many non "mass" shootings there have been in America during July? You know, the ones that are so commonplace they no longer make the papers.

Where were the good guys? Banned from carrying their guns in those locations.....because of twits like you....

Mass public shooters target gun free zones...but you will see how that works as your Country goes forward.......

and when an armed citizen happens to have their gun? In the middle of a mass public shooting?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------

The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.

 

[OnePercenter]

Nice try. The man was arrested for possession of a non-registered gun.

There ya go again.....

ALWAYS proving MY POINT for me.

You Lefttards would rather see an innocent person die, than let them defend their families against criminals
What a disgustingly criminally minded lot of leftards you are.
I'm wondering how NY has been allowed to so completely infringe CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ?!?!?!?!

It's true....All that is required for evil men to prevail is for good men to do nothing

I have proven that you don't have a point, just bloviating.

Remember, guns don't kill people, bad people with guns kill people so we should kill the bad people.

 

[OnePercenter]

According to you, the mere ownership of guns should have increased the crime rate....instead, as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down...showing that there is nothing wrong with normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense.....

Point out to me please, where I have ever stated more guns carried by civilians increase crime. You are projecting your own domestic arguments into our discussion. I advocate that:

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.
2. Anyone who wants to own a gun, should receive mandatory extensive training on its use and how to store it safely and securely. The individual should pass a basic level of marksmanship test to prove they can use the weapon without endangering themselves or others.
3. Anyone who wants to own a gun must apply for and pass psych evaluations and background checks to obtain a licence to own a firearm.
4. Each firearm purchase should be recorded at point of sale and the record kept in a central database so
if they sell or give away the weapon, the transfer of ownership should be recorded.
5. Guns can only be used on approved firing ranges or by licenced hunters.

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

Police-recorded offences involving a knife or sharp instrument rose to 46,265 for the year to March, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Friday.

*sigh* Knife "offences" include carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3" without having good reason. It also includes carrying screwdrivers or other sharp instruments without good reason. The number of actual stabbings is much lower as is the actual number of homicides. The rise in "knife crime" is largely due to changes and improvements in recording practices. In reality an average of 2-300 people are stabbed to death in the UK every year.

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.


More...you don't understand the issues....

That's because, on average, most guns used in crimes were bought nearly 15 years prior, according to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. By the time they end up on the street, they've often been stolen and resold illegally.
-----

In the fall of 2014, state police issued a report that showed the program had solved no crimes and was costing more than ever. A sweeping gun-control law passed in 2013 — and the surge in gun sales that resulted — created a backlog and state police had to hire eight people just to organize the nearly 60,000 bullet casings sent in that year. In the report, police again suggested the program had merit.

Maryland scraps gun "fingerprint" database after 15 failed years

Millions of dollars later, Maryland has officially decided that its 15-year effort to store and catalog the "fingerprints" of thousands of handguns, was a failure. Since 2000, the state required that gun manufacturers fire every handgun to be sold here and send the spent bullet casing to...

www.baltimoresun.com

So we should have a federal death penalty for using a gun in commission of any crime.

 

[2aguy]

According to you, the mere ownership of guns should have increased the crime rate....instead, as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down...showing that there is nothing wrong with normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense.....

Point out to me please, where I have ever stated more guns carried by civilians increase crime. You are projecting your own domestic arguments into our discussion. I advocate that:

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.
2. Anyone who wants to own a gun, should receive mandatory extensive training on its use and how to store it safely and securely. The individual should pass a basic level of marksmanship test to prove they can use the weapon without endangering themselves or others.
3. Anyone who wants to own a gun must apply for and pass psych evaluations and background checks to obtain a licence to own a firearm.
4. Each firearm purchase should be recorded at point of sale and the record kept in a central database so
if they sell or give away the weapon, the transfer of ownership should be recorded.
5. Guns can only be used on approved firing ranges or by licenced hunters.

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

Police-recorded offences involving a knife or sharp instrument rose to 46,265 for the year to March, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Friday.

*sigh* Knife "offences" include carrying a knife with a blade longer than 3" without having good reason. It also includes carrying screwdrivers or other sharp instruments without good reason. The number of actual stabbings is much lower as is the actual number of homicides. The rise in "knife crime" is largely due to changes and improvements in recording practices. In reality an average of 2-300 people are stabbed to death in the UK every year.

1. All firearms should be centrally registered and made traceable (i.e. micro serial numbers/chips that can't be filed away, especially on barrels that can be changed). A test firing of all guns so there is a record of the grove pattern on the bullet and a record kept in case the gun is stolen and used in a crime.


More...you don't understand the issues....

That's because, on average, most guns used in crimes were bought nearly 15 years prior, according to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. By the time they end up on the street, they've often been stolen and resold illegally.
-----

In the fall of 2014, state police issued a report that showed the program had solved no crimes and was costing more than ever. A sweeping gun-control law passed in 2013 — and the surge in gun sales that resulted — created a backlog and state police had to hire eight people just to organize the nearly 60,000 bullet casings sent in that year. In the report, police again suggested the program had merit.

Maryland scraps gun "fingerprint" database after 15 failed years

Millions of dollars later, Maryland has officially decided that its 15-year effort to store and catalog the "fingerprints" of thousands of handguns, was a failure. Since 2000, the state required that gun manufacturers fire every handgun to be sold here and send the spent bullet casing to...

www.baltimoresun.com

So we should have a federal death penalty for using a gun in commission of any crime.

Attempted murder or murder, sure.

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

 

[Vagabond63]

As expected, I "triggered" your usual barrage of bullshit

The micro stamp tech doesn't exist and can't work....

Really? If it works on diamonds... How to Read the GIA Laser Inscription on Your Diamond
Or even by hand...read the inscription for yourself... World's smallest engraving on the edge of a razor blade It says, "nothing is impossible"

And each one of your points would limit the Right out of existence

Oh, so ammendments to your constitution have never been repealed in the past? Doesn't your 2nd Ammendment assume regulation is required? "A well regulated..etc"

Yes....this is pointless busy work that does nothing...

Technology has advanced considerably, just because one scheme fails, doesn't mean you should just give up. Ever heard of the saying "If at first you don't succeed..."

And this too, is dumb and pointless....600 million guns in the U.S.........you do realize that as a gun is repeatedly fired it changes the pattern...right?

CAN change the pattern due considerable to wear and tear, true. Oh, you've started posting this 600 million figure, where does that come from?

Americans use their legal guns to stop, on average, 1.2 million crimes a year, including rapes, robberies and murders...

Gun nut fantasies aren't facts.
As you well know, this number you keep quoting is a subjective guess; it could equally be a tenth of that or even ten times that; there are no objective records or statistics available.

There were not 49 mass public shootings you dumb twit.......there were a total of 10 in 2019.....

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2019....10

Yes, these were shootings carried out by "law abiding" citizens armed with legaly owned guns. Using your own sources' definition, therefore, the UK has had Zero shootings by comparison. Thanks for proving gun control works.

and when an armed citizen happens to have their gun? In the middle of a mass public shooting?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Your own source disagrees with you. Do Armed Civilians Stop Mass Shooters? Actually, No.

And what about cases in which citizens try to use their guns and things go terribly wrong? There are at least two examples of ill-fated attempts that you won’t see mentioned by those arguing for your kid’s teacher to start stashing a loaded Glock in her classroom:

Shopping mall shooting in Tacoma, Washington
As a rampage unfolded in 2005, a civilian with a concealed-carry permit named Brendan McKown attempted to confront the assailant with his handgun. The assailant gravely wounded McKown, and shot five other people before eventually surrendering to police after a hostage standoff. A comatose McKown recovered after weeks in the hospital.

Courthouse shooting in Tyler, Texas

In 2005, a civilian named Mark Wilson, who was a firearms instructor, fired his licensed handgun at a man on a rampage at the county courthouse. Wilson was shot dead by the body-armored assailant, who wielded an AK-47.

Such actions in chaotic situations don’t just put the well-intentioned citizen at risk, of course. According to Robert McMenomy, an assistant special agent in charge in the San Francisco division of the FBI, they increase the danger for innocent bystanders. (Exhibit A: the gun-wielding civilian who came really close to shooting an innocent person as the Tucson massacre unfolded.) They also make it more difficult for law enforcement officers to do their jobs. “In a scenario like that,” McMenomy said recently, “they wouldn’t know who was good or who was bad, and it would divert them from the real threat.”

 

[2aguy]

As expected, I "triggered" your usual barrage of bullshit

The micro stamp tech doesn't exist and can't work....

Really? If it works on diamonds... How to Read the GIA Laser Inscription on Your Diamond
Or even by hand...read the inscription for yourself... World's smallest engraving on the edge of a razor blade It says, "nothing is impossible"

And each one of your points would limit the Right out of existence

Oh, so ammendments to your constitution have never been repealed in the past? Doesn't your 2nd Ammendment assume regulation is required? "A well regulated..etc"

Yes....this is pointless busy work that does nothing...

Technology has advanced considerably, just because one scheme fails, doesn't mean you should just give up. Ever heard of the saying "If at first you don't succeed..."

And this too, is dumb and pointless....600 million guns in the U.S.........you do realize that as a gun is repeatedly fired it changes the pattern...right?

CAN change the pattern due considerable to wear and tear, true. Oh, you've started posting this 600 million figure, where does that come from?

Americans use their legal guns to stop, on average, 1.2 million crimes a year, including rapes, robberies and murders...

Gun nut fantasies aren't facts.
As you well know, this number you keep quoting is a subjective guess; it could equally be a tenth of that or even ten times that; there are no objective records or statistics available.

There were not 49 mass public shootings you dumb twit.......there were a total of 10 in 2019.....

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2019....10

Yes, these were shootings carried out by "law abiding" citizens armed with legaly owned guns. Using your own sources' definition, therefore, the UK has had Zero shootings by comparison. Thanks for proving gun control works.

and when an armed citizen happens to have their gun? In the middle of a mass public shooting?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Your own source disagrees with you. Do Armed Civilians Stop Mass Shooters? Actually, No.

And what about cases in which citizens try to use their guns and things go terribly wrong? There are at least two examples of ill-fated attempts that you won’t see mentioned by those arguing for your kid’s teacher to start stashing a loaded Glock in her classroom:

Shopping mall shooting in Tacoma, Washington
As a rampage unfolded in 2005, a civilian with a concealed-carry permit named Brendan McKown attempted to confront the assailant with his handgun. The assailant gravely wounded McKown, and shot five other people before eventually surrendering to police after a hostage standoff. A comatose McKown recovered after weeks in the hospital.

Courthouse shooting in Tyler, Texas

In 2005, a civilian named Mark Wilson, who was a firearms instructor, fired his licensed handgun at a man on a rampage at the county courthouse. Wilson was shot dead by the body-armored assailant, who wielded an AK-47.

Such actions in chaotic situations don’t just put the well-intentioned citizen at risk, of course. According to Robert McMenomy, an assistant special agent in charge in the San Francisco division of the FBI, they increase the danger for innocent bystanders. (Exhibit A: the gun-wielding civilian who came really close to shooting an innocent person as the Tucson massacre unfolded.) They also make it more difficult for law enforcement officers to do their jobs. “In a scenario like that,” McMenomy said recently, “they wouldn’t know who was good or who was bad, and it would divert them from the real threat.”

Sorry....you are wrong again in everything you post....

In particular, you cite 2 shootings...vs. the 94% where armed citizens were successful.....as in the Texas Church shooting and others.....meanwhile, even in the Black Lives Matter shooting in Dallas, Texas....where 6 police officers were murdered by a supporter of black lives matter, there were armed citizens marching, many with rifles on slings. When the attack happened, they simply found cover and let the police handle the attack...

In the Texas church shooting, the NRA instructor with his personal AR-15 rifle, not only stopped the attack, saving at least 25 lives, he chased and cornered the attacker...and then, when the police arrived, he wasn't shot, he was escorted out of harms way and the police took over....

You make up crap all the time with no knowledge of truth, facts or reality...

Then you have this....an armed American, a black American, holding a car jacker at gun point until the police arrive, and then the police shake his hand....

You don't know what you are talking about.

Nothing you post is even remotely true or accurate.

And as to etching bullet casings......again, you are an idiot.....I quoted how many shell casings one state already had, in the hundreds of thousands, and not one case was solved with them.......

 

[2aguy]

Drive buy shooting in gun free Britain leaves 3 teenagers wounded....but......gun control?

Again....which gun control law in Britain kept this shooter from walking into a mall, a school, a church (if they still exist in Britain) a Mosque...more and more of those though........or a theater...

Please point out which gun control law stopped this from being a school shooting....

A gunman is at large after three teenagers were shot in a drive-by attack in north London that left one of the victims fighting for life.

Detectives have launched a manhunt following the shooting, which took place in a car park on the Broadwater Farm estate in Tottenham at about 12.40am on Thursday.

One of the male victims, 19, is in a critical condition in hospital. A 15-year-old boy was left with possible life changing injuries, while another boy, also 15, suffered injuries that are not thought to be life-changing or threatening.

Gunman at large after triple shooting leaves teen fighting for life

A gunman is at large after three teenagers were shot in a drive-by attack in north London that left one of the victims fighting for life. Detectives have launched a manhunt following the shooting, which took place in a car park on the Broadwater Farm estate in Tottenham at about 12.40am on Thursday.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[2aguy]

As expected, I "triggered" your usual barrage of bullshit

The micro stamp tech doesn't exist and can't work....

Really? If it works on diamonds... How to Read the GIA Laser Inscription on Your Diamond
Or even by hand...read the inscription for yourself... World's smallest engraving on the edge of a razor blade It says, "nothing is impossible"

And each one of your points would limit the Right out of existence

Oh, so ammendments to your constitution have never been repealed in the past? Doesn't your 2nd Ammendment assume regulation is required? "A well regulated..etc"

Yes....this is pointless busy work that does nothing...

Technology has advanced considerably, just because one scheme fails, doesn't mean you should just give up. Ever heard of the saying "If at first you don't succeed..."

And this too, is dumb and pointless....600 million guns in the U.S.........you do realize that as a gun is repeatedly fired it changes the pattern...right?

CAN change the pattern due considerable to wear and tear, true. Oh, you've started posting this 600 million figure, where does that come from?

Americans use their legal guns to stop, on average, 1.2 million crimes a year, including rapes, robberies and murders...

Gun nut fantasies aren't facts.
As you well know, this number you keep quoting is a subjective guess; it could equally be a tenth of that or even ten times that; there are no objective records or statistics available.

There were not 49 mass public shootings you dumb twit.......there were a total of 10 in 2019.....

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2019....10

Yes, these were shootings carried out by "law abiding" citizens armed with legaly owned guns. Using your own sources' definition, therefore, the UK has had Zero shootings by comparison. Thanks for proving gun control works.

and when an armed citizen happens to have their gun? In the middle of a mass public shooting?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Your own source disagrees with you. Do Armed Civilians Stop Mass Shooters? Actually, No.

And what about cases in which citizens try to use their guns and things go terribly wrong? There are at least two examples of ill-fated attempts that you won’t see mentioned by those arguing for your kid’s teacher to start stashing a loaded Glock in her classroom:

Shopping mall shooting in Tacoma, Washington
As a rampage unfolded in 2005, a civilian with a concealed-carry permit named Brendan McKown attempted to confront the assailant with his handgun. The assailant gravely wounded McKown, and shot five other people before eventually surrendering to police after a hostage standoff. A comatose McKown recovered after weeks in the hospital.

Courthouse shooting in Tyler, Texas

In 2005, a civilian named Mark Wilson, who was a firearms instructor, fired his licensed handgun at a man on a rampage at the county courthouse. Wilson was shot dead by the body-armored assailant, who wielded an AK-47.

Such actions in chaotic situations don’t just put the well-intentioned citizen at risk, of course. According to Robert McMenomy, an assistant special agent in charge in the San Francisco division of the FBI, they increase the danger for innocent bystanders. (Exhibit A: the gun-wielding civilian who came really close to shooting an innocent person as the Tucson massacre unfolded.) They also make it more difficult for law enforcement officers to do their jobs. “In a scenario like that,” McMenomy said recently, “they wouldn’t know who was good or who was bad, and it would divert them from the real threat.”

Your own source disagrees with you.


Mother Jones is an anti-gun magazine...run by rabidly anti-gun extremists.....I use them solely because they keep track of actual mass public shootings....I use their hard data, not their opinions since their opinion isn't based in facts, truth, or reality...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.