Shootings in Britain

[BasicHumanUnit]

Already did. Guess you missed it.

Really? care to provide a link to that post of yours?

Already did. Guess you missed it.

 

[2aguy]

You need to explain that.....

Already have several times now, you just prefer to ignore any opinions contrary to your fanatical beliefs, I suppose that makes you a prime candidate for groups such as ISIS.

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

One more time, read your own source for reasons that crime decined in the USA; gun ownership is not mentioned.

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested...

When you want to test a theory scientifically, you rely on empirical factual data, not guesswork and projections based on limited, arguably biased, samples.

More Guns = More Gun Crime

Well when we banned handguns in 1997 our shootings and homicides fell by 50%

If you have a fully automatic military rifle in your home...and ammunition.....which gun control laws keep you from walking out of your house and shooting up a school?

Ever tried chambering a 7-10mm round into a 5.56mm rifle?

That 18.6 million people are not just gun owners......they are people who have legal permits to carry a gun for self defense...and are thus documented ........they are not permits for guns, they are permits for individuals............and that number is low, since many of our states are "Constitutional Carry" states, which means you can carry a gun without any license or permit, either open carry of the gun, in some states, or concealed carry or both. That means millions more carry guns that are not on official records.

That means you have no idea how many people have how many guns in their posession, that's why your criminals get hold of guns so easily, that's why your suicide figures are so high. If nothing else, registering each firearm to an individual and any onward sales of said firearm would provide you with actual factual data as opposed to wild assertions based on guesswork alone.

Our actual gun ownership number is close to if not over 600 million guns....

See my response above, how do you know?

And yet your society isn't safer, and is, in fact, more violent....

From Politifact...

Oh dear, another epic fail. Politifact rated your assertion mostly FALSE, nice try, thanks for playing.

Oh dear, another epic fail. Politifact rated your assertion mostly FALSE, nice try, thanks for playing.


And here...since you didn't want to be honest.....

The meme...

The meme said: "There are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K., making it the most violent place in Europe.

What Politifact found about actual crime numbers.... the U.S. compared to Britain...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.


Then politifact said the meme was wrong....but with their own research demonstrated that Britain is more violent than the U.S.....you twit.

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales, but the discrepancy is not anywhere near as wide as the one cited in the meme.

They didn't claim the U.S. was less violent than Britain.......they ruled the original meme was off........

The meme said "there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K.," compared to "466 violent crimes per 100,000" in the United States.
Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries,
-------
We rate the claim False.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

So.......Britain is more violent than the United States......with your gun control

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

You didn't read the article.....I gave you the statistic they found, and then lied about..............they showed that Britain is more violent than the U.S......but then dodged to say that the social media statement wasn't accurate because
the number stated was off....Britain is only just over twice as violent as the U.S........

You twit.

Of course he didn't read the article.
In his lame brain the Gun is the villain, never the criminals.....because everyone is a criminal to him.

Imagine if in your head you perceived everyone as criminal. You would have to decide who the "worst" criminals are, and release the rest, even though they are criminals (liberal judges do that constantly)

In their minds, every gun will be owned by criminals (since everyone is a criminal)
Therefore, in their minds, the only way is to take EVERYONE's guns away.

Stupid, pea brained thinking but there it is.

 

[2aguy]

Already did. Guess you missed it.

Really? care to provide a link to that post of yours?

One more time, read your own source for reasons that crime decined in the USA; gun ownership is not mentioned.


Armed citizens help to lower the crime rate..........




Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Our results indicated that the direction of effect of the shall-issue law on total SHR homicide rates was similar to that obtained by Lott and Mustard, although the magnitude of the effect was somewhat smaller and was statistically significant at the 7 percent level. In our analysis, which included only counties with a 1977 population of 100,000 or more, laws allowing for concealed weapons were associated with a 6.52 percent reduction in total homicides (Table 2). By comparison, Lott and Mustard found the concealed weapon dummy variable to be associated with a 7.65 percent reduction in total homicides across all counties and a 9 percent reduction in homicides when only large counties (populations of 100,000 or more) were included.43
====

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

COMMENTS

Confirming ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî Florenz Plassmann* & John Whitley**

CONCLUSION Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5% and 2.3% for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect.

For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between about $2 and $3 billion per year.

The results are very similar to earlier estimates using county-level data from 1977 to 1996. We appreciate the continuing effort that Ayres and Donohue have made in discussing the impact of right-to-carry laws on crime rates. Yet we believe that both the new evidence provided by them as well as our new results show consistently that right-to-carry laws reduce crime and save lives. Unfortunately, a few simple mistakes lead Ayres and Donohue to incorrectly claim that crime rates significantly increase after right-to-carry laws are initially adopted and to misinterpret the significance of their own estimates that examined the year-to-year impact of the law.

====

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...An-Exercise-in-Replication.proof_.revised.pdf

~ The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws on Crime: An Exercise in Replication1

Carlisle E. Moody College of William and Mary - Department of Economics, Virginia 23187, U.S.A. E-mail: [email protected] Thomas B. Marvell Justec Research, Virginia 23185, U.S.A. Paul R. Zimmerman U.S. Federal Trade Commission - Bureau of Economics, Washington, D.C., U.S.A. Fasil Alemante College of William and Mary, Virginia 23187, U.S.A.


Abstract: In an article published in 2011, Aneja, Donohue and Zhang found that shall-issue or right-to-carry (RTC) concealed weapons laws have no effect on any crime except for a positive effect on assault.

This paper reports a replication of their basic findings and some corresponding robustness checks, which reveal a serious omitted variable problem.

Once corrected for omitted variables, the most robust result, confirmed using both county and state data, is that RTC laws significantly reduce murder.
====
An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates
Mark Gius

Abstract

The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates.

Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states.

It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

===


“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..


Summary and Conclusion

Many articles have been published finding that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one article, by Ayres and Donohue who employ a model that combines a dummy variable with a post-law trend, claims to find that shall-issue laws increase crime.

However, the only way that they can produce the result that shall-issue laws increase crime is to confine the span of analysis to five years

. We show, using their own estimates, that if they had extended their analysis by one more year, they would have concluded that these laws reduce crime.

Since most states with shallissue laws have had these laws on the books for more than five years, and the law will presumably remain on the books for some time, the only relevant analysis extends beyond five years. We extend their analysis by adding three more years of data, control for the effects of crack cocaine, control for dynamic effects, and correct the standard errors for clustering.

We find that there is an initial increase in crime due to passage of the shall-issue law that is dwarfed over time by the decrease in crime associated with the post-law trend.

These results are very similar to those of Ayres and Donohue, properly interpreted.

The modified Ayres and Donohue model finds that shall-issue laws significantly reduce murder and burglary across all the adopting states. These laws appear to significantly increase assault, and have no net effect on rape, robbery, larceny, or auto theft. However, in the long run only the trend coefficients matter. We estimate a net benefit of $450 million per year as a result of the passage of these laws. We also estimate that, up through 2000, there was a cumulative overall net benefit of these laws of $28 billion since their passage. We think that there is credible statistical evidence that these laws lower the costs of crime. But at the very least, the present study should neutralize any “more guns, more crime” thinking based on Ayres and Donohue’s work in the Stanford Law Review


Taking apart ayre and donahue one....


“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..


Abstract
“Shall-issue” laws require authorities to issue concealed-weapons permits to anyone who applies, unless the applicant has a criminal record or a history of mental illness. A large number of studies indicate that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one study, an influential paper in the Stanford Law Review (2003) by Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue iii, implies that these laws lead to an increase in crime. We apply an improved version of the Ayres and Donohue method to a more extensive data set. Our analysis, as well as Ayres and Donohue’s when projected beyond a five-year span, indicates that shall-issue laws decrease crime and the costs of crime. Purists in statistical analysis object with some cause to some of methods employed both by Ayres and Donohue and by us. But our paper upgrades Ayres and Donohue, so, until the next study comes along, our paper should neutralize Ayres and Donohue’s “more guns, more crime” conclusion.

Summary and Conclusion Many articles have been published finding that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one article, by Ayres and Donohue who employ a model that combines a dummy variable with a post-law trend, claims to find that shall-issue laws increase crime.

However, the only way that they can produce the result that shall-issue laws increase crime is to confine the span of analysis to five years. We show, using their own estimates, that if they had extended their analysis by one more year, they would have concluded that these laws reduce crime. Since most states with shallissue laws have had these laws on the books for more than five years, and the law will presumably remain on the books for some time, the only relevant analysis extends beyond five years.


We extend their analysis by adding three more years of data, control for the effects of crack cocaine, control for dynamic effects, and correct the standard errors for clustering.


We find that there is an initial increase in crime due to passage of the shall-issue law that is dwarfed over time by the decrease in crime associated with the post-law trend. These results are very similar to those of Ayres and Donohue, properly interpreted.


The modified Ayres and Donohue model finds that shall-issue laws significantly reduce murder and burglary across all the adopting states.

These laws appear to significantly increase assault, and have no net effect on rape, robbery, larceny, or auto theft. However, in the long run only the trend coefficients matter. We estimate a net benefit of $450 million per year as a result of the passage of these laws.

We also estimate that, up through 2000, there was a cumulative overall net benefit of these laws of $28 billion since their passage. We think that there is credible statistical evidence that these laws lower the costs of crime.


But at the very least, the present study should neutralize any “more guns, more crime” thinking based on Ayres and Donohue’s work in the Stanford Law Review. We acknowledge that, especially in light of the methodological issues of the literature in general, the magnitudes derived from our analysis of crime statistics and the supposed costs of crime might be dwarfed by other considerations in judging the policy issue. Some might contend that allowing individuals to carry a concealed weapon is a moral or cultural bad. Others might contend that greater liberty is a moral or cultural good.

All we are confident in saying is that the evidence, such as it is, seems to support the hypothesis that the shall-issue law is generally beneficial with respect to its overall long run effect on crime.

 

[2aguy]

Another shooting in gun free Britain....

A young man was shot dead outside a funeral wake by a gunman wearing a surgical mask who fired at least eight times before being driven away, witnesses told the Standard.

Neighbours said more than 100 well-wishers had gathered for the traditional Caribbean "nine nights" celebration in Harlesden, to honour another young man who died last week. They were seen to flee as gunshots rang out.

Police called to Windrush Road at just after 3am battled to save the victim's life but he was pronounced dead by paramedics at the scene. His death marks the capital’s seventh violent killing in just 12 days.

Young man shot dead outside wake by 'gunman wearing surgical mask'

Neighbours said more than 100 well-wishers had gathered for the traditional Caribbean "nine nights" celebration in Harlseden

www.standard.co.uk

Again....which British gun control law kept this gunman from walking into a school, a mall, a church (if Britain still has them) or more likely a Mosque or theater?

 

[Vagabond63]

You need to explain that.....

Already have several times now, you just prefer to ignore any opinions contrary to your fanatical beliefs, I suppose that makes you a prime candidate for groups such as ISIS.

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

One more time, read your own source for reasons that crime decined in the USA; gun ownership is not mentioned.

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested...

When you want to test a theory scientifically, you rely on empirical factual data, not guesswork and projections based on limited, arguably biased, samples.

More Guns = More Gun Crime

Well when we banned handguns in 1997 our shootings and homicides fell by 50%

If you have a fully automatic military rifle in your home...and ammunition.....which gun control laws keep you from walking out of your house and shooting up a school?

Ever tried chambering a 7-10mm round into a 5.56mm rifle?

That 18.6 million people are not just gun owners......they are people who have legal permits to carry a gun for self defense...and are thus documented ........they are not permits for guns, they are permits for individuals............and that number is low, since many of our states are "Constitutional Carry" states, which means you can carry a gun without any license or permit, either open carry of the gun, in some states, or concealed carry or both. That means millions more carry guns that are not on official records.

That means you have no idea how many people have how many guns in their posession, that's why your criminals get hold of guns so easily, that's why your suicide figures are so high. If nothing else, registering each firearm to an individual and any onward sales of said firearm would provide you with actual factual data as opposed to wild assertions based on guesswork alone.

Our actual gun ownership number is close to if not over 600 million guns....

See my response above, how do you know?

And yet your society isn't safer, and is, in fact, more violent....

From Politifact...

Oh dear, another epic fail. Politifact rated your assertion mostly FALSE, nice try, thanks for playing.

Oh dear, another epic fail. Politifact rated your assertion mostly FALSE, nice try, thanks for playing.


And here...since you didn't want to be honest.....

The meme...

The meme said: "There are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K., making it the most violent place in Europe.

What Politifact found about actual crime numbers.... the U.S. compared to Britain...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.


Then politifact said the meme was wrong....but with their own research demonstrated that Britain is more violent than the U.S.....you twit.

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales, but the discrepancy is not anywhere near as wide as the one cited in the meme.

They didn't claim the U.S. was less violent than Britain.......they ruled the original meme was off........

The meme said "there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K.," compared to "466 violent crimes per 100,000" in the United States.
Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries,
-------
We rate the claim False.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

So.......Britain is more violent than the United States......with your gun control

Erm..you should really read the whole analysis, not just the cherry pick bits that "support" your argument.

"Another problem is that aggravated assaults, rapes and robberies are victim-reported crimes, so whether the crime gets reported varies widely, depending on such factors as the victim’s trust in the police. This difference shows up in comparisons of FBI crime data, which consists of crimes reported to police, and the far higher rates of crime victimization found in a survey of Americans by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics. The survey counts all crimes that respondents say they have experienced, not just those they reported to police.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by an arm of the United Nations most recently in 2005, shows the difference between reported crime and all crimes committed by conducting polls that ask people if they've been victims of specific crimes. Polling data showed that England and Wales had 2,600 cases of robbery per 100,000 population and 8,100 cases of "assaults and threats" per 100,000. While those figures are even higher than the meme suggested, the U.S levels are also much higher -- 1,100 cases of robbery and 8,300 cases of assaults and threats per 100,000. And the rate of sexual assault is actually about 50 percent higher in the United States than it is in England and Wales. So this data set doesn’t support the thrust of the meme, either."

Next?

 

[Vagabond63]

Armed citizens help to lower the crime rate...

More regurgitated Lott ESTIMATES and GUESSORK, no actual facts.

 

[Vagabond63]

Already did. Guess you missed it.

Really? care to provide a link to that post of yours?

Already did. Guess you missed it.

Oh, OK, I'll just assume you are lying then and ignore anything you post going forward.

 

[Vagabond63]

Another shooting in gun free Britain....

A young man was shot dead outside a funeral wake by a gunman wearing a surgical mask who fired at least eight times before being driven away, witnesses told the Standard.

Neighbours said more than 100 well-wishers had gathered for the traditional Caribbean "nine nights" celebration in Harlesden, to honour another young man who died last week. They were seen to flee as gunshots rang out.

Police called to Windrush Road at just after 3am battled to save the victim's life but he was pronounced dead by paramedics at the scene. His death marks the capital’s seventh violent killing in just 12 days.

Young man shot dead outside wake by 'gunman wearing surgical mask'

Neighbours said more than 100 well-wishers had gathered for the traditional Caribbean "nine nights" celebration in Harlseden

www.standard.co.uk

Again....which British gun control law kept this gunman from walking into a school, a mall, a church (if Britain still has them) or more likely a Mosque or theater?

So a criminal hit on another criminal is a now a cause for concern for you? Every time I've mentioned your gun murder rates, you brush off the figures with a "meh, they were criminals". Your hypocrisy is showing.

 

[2aguy]

You need to explain that.....

Already have several times now, you just prefer to ignore any opinions contrary to your fanatical beliefs, I suppose that makes you a prime candidate for groups such as ISIS.

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

One more time, read your own source for reasons that crime decined in the USA; gun ownership is not mentioned.

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested...

When you want to test a theory scientifically, you rely on empirical factual data, not guesswork and projections based on limited, arguably biased, samples.

More Guns = More Gun Crime

Well when we banned handguns in 1997 our shootings and homicides fell by 50%

If you have a fully automatic military rifle in your home...and ammunition.....which gun control laws keep you from walking out of your house and shooting up a school?

Ever tried chambering a 7-10mm round into a 5.56mm rifle?

That 18.6 million people are not just gun owners......they are people who have legal permits to carry a gun for self defense...and are thus documented ........they are not permits for guns, they are permits for individuals............and that number is low, since many of our states are "Constitutional Carry" states, which means you can carry a gun without any license or permit, either open carry of the gun, in some states, or concealed carry or both. That means millions more carry guns that are not on official records.

That means you have no idea how many people have how many guns in their posession, that's why your criminals get hold of guns so easily, that's why your suicide figures are so high. If nothing else, registering each firearm to an individual and any onward sales of said firearm would provide you with actual factual data as opposed to wild assertions based on guesswork alone.

Our actual gun ownership number is close to if not over 600 million guns....

See my response above, how do you know?

And yet your society isn't safer, and is, in fact, more violent....

From Politifact...

Oh dear, another epic fail. Politifact rated your assertion mostly FALSE, nice try, thanks for playing.

Oh dear, another epic fail. Politifact rated your assertion mostly FALSE, nice try, thanks for playing.


And here...since you didn't want to be honest.....

The meme...

The meme said: "There are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K., making it the most violent place in Europe.

What Politifact found about actual crime numbers.... the U.S. compared to Britain...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.


Then politifact said the meme was wrong....but with their own research demonstrated that Britain is more violent than the U.S.....you twit.

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales, but the discrepancy is not anywhere near as wide as the one cited in the meme.

They didn't claim the U.S. was less violent than Britain.......they ruled the original meme was off........

The meme said "there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K.," compared to "466 violent crimes per 100,000" in the United States.
Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries,
-------
We rate the claim False.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

So.......Britain is more violent than the United States......with your gun control

Erm..you should really read the whole analysis, not just the cherry pick bits that "support" your argument.

"Another problem is that aggravated assaults, rapes and robberies are victim-reported crimes, so whether the crime gets reported varies widely, depending on such factors as the victim’s trust in the police. This difference shows up in comparisons of FBI crime data, which consists of crimes reported to police, and the far higher rates of crime victimization found in a survey of Americans by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics. The survey counts all crimes that respondents say they have experienced, not just those they reported to police.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by an arm of the United Nations most recently in 2005, shows the difference between reported crime and all crimes committed by conducting polls that ask people if they've been victims of specific crimes. Polling data showed that England and Wales had 2,600 cases of robbery per 100,000 population and 8,100 cases of "assaults and threats" per 100,000. While those figures are even higher than the meme suggested, the U.S levels are also much higher -- 1,100 cases of robbery and 8,300 cases of assaults and threats per 100,000. And the rate of sexual assault is actually about 50 percent higher in the United States than it is in England and Wales. So this data set doesn’t support the thrust of the meme, either."

Next?

And you should pay attention......politifact then stated they did an apples to apples comparison..which is what I posted. The rest is just to pretend that AMerica is more violent than Britain..

You can duck, dodge and dip all you want....but this is the key point to the politifact story...the one they try to bury...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

 

[2aguy]

Another shooting in gun free Britain....

A young man was shot dead outside a funeral wake by a gunman wearing a surgical mask who fired at least eight times before being driven away, witnesses told the Standard.

Neighbours said more than 100 well-wishers had gathered for the traditional Caribbean "nine nights" celebration in Harlesden, to honour another young man who died last week. They were seen to flee as gunshots rang out.

Police called to Windrush Road at just after 3am battled to save the victim's life but he was pronounced dead by paramedics at the scene. His death marks the capital’s seventh violent killing in just 12 days.

Young man shot dead outside wake by 'gunman wearing surgical mask'

Neighbours said more than 100 well-wishers had gathered for the traditional Caribbean "nine nights" celebration in Harlseden

www.standard.co.uk

Again....which British gun control law kept this gunman from walking into a school, a mall, a church (if Britain still has them) or more likely a Mosque or theater?

So a criminal hit on another criminal is a now a cause for concern for you? Every time I've mentioned your gun murder rates, you brush off the figures with a "meh, they were criminals". Your hypocrisy is showing.

No....it isn't hypocriy, it is the truth.....criminals use guns to shoot other criminals in Britain and the United States... that is the vast majority of our gun crime rate..in democrat party controlled cities...

So normal people who stay out of the very small areas where criminals run free in democrat party controlled cities do not experience gun crime or gun murder....just like in Britain....

And again, you pretend not to see the point.....

If the criminals has the gun and bullets, then there is nothing your gun control laws can do to stop him from using that gun for crime...or in particular a mass public shooting....the gun control law didn't stop them.....their decision to shoot or not shoot was the factor, not your gun control laws.

And again, as you and your country will see........ if the democrat party, and it's counterpart in your country, would stop letting violent criminals out of prison over and over again, our gun crime rate would drop 95%...... the policies of catch and release from the democrat party drive our gun crime rate..... normal people owing and carrying guns does not cause the problem....and laws that are directed at them, and not criminals are pointless...

 

[2aguy]

Armed citizens help to lower the crime rate...

More regurgitated Lott ESTIMATES and GUESSORK, no actual facts.

Moron, you didn't read the names of the researchers doing the actual studies....you dumb twit..........they aren't lott, though he has done the most research in this area...you doofus.

 

[OnePercenter]

So....gun crime in Britain is getting worse....with shooters opening fire, hitting children and their mothers and shooting up parties....but...they have gun control....right?

A man and two women have sustained gunshot wounds after attackers opened fire on people attending a party in Harlow, Essex.

Essex police said the man, who is in his 50s and from nearby Grays, was taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries early on Saturday.

Two women in their 20s were taken to hospital with single gunshot wounds, which are not considered to be life-threatening.

Three people shot at party in Essex, say police

Man suffered life-threatening injuries and two women also shot in early hours of Saturday

www.theguardian.com

Why don't you start doing a thread on every gun shot incident in this country, 2AGuy. This is your country after all. Why do you think we care if there was a shooting in England? Or France?
Let's start hearing about every one of them in this country.
What? Impossible? That's because there are tens of thousands of them a year. You couldn't type fast enough.
And it's because every Tom, Dick and Harriett has a gun for no good reason.

What you don't understand.....you really don't understand a lot.....is that Europe is used by our anti-gun extremists to justify our anti-gun laws.......the fact that gun control does not work in Europe shows it won't work here.....

We already hear about them in this country....what we rarely hear about is the 1.2 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to stop violent rapes, robberies and murders.....or the fact that as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down, not up....

Meanwhile....in Europe.....their immigrants are using more guns for more crime....to protect their drug territories...and their gun control laws are not stopping them.

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

I'm sure you'll agree that if we extend a federal death penalty to anyone that uses a gun in commission of a crime would be a good deal.

I actually propose something like that.........I only support the death penalty for actual murder, or attempted murder....here is my plan...

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

The severe problem with your proposals.......is liberal judges and lawmakers
They could selectively apply these laws to Conservatives only in the court rooms.

In hard left liberal court rooms, this is already happening.
Liberal juries are handing down guilty verdicts to people for defending their homes.

Liberal juries are handing down guilty verdicts to people for defending their homes.

Why don't you post one of those for a full dissection.

Easy peasy.....thousands of cases......ever heard of Google?

This New York Man Got Arrested After Defending His Own Home

Now then, you were saying?

Nice try. The man was arrested for possession of a non-registered gun.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Nice try. The man was arrested for possession of a non-registered gun.

There ya go again.....

ALWAYS proving MY POINT for me.

You Lefttards would rather see an innocent person die, than let them defend their families against criminals
What a disgustingly criminally minded lot of leftards you are.
I'm wondering how NY has been allowed to so completely infringe CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ?!?!?!?!

It's true....All that is required for evil men to prevail is for good men to do nothing

 

[Vagabond63]

politifact then stated they did an apples to apples comparison

..and subsequently stated that their "apples to apples" comparison was worthless due to there not being a standard definition of any particulat type of crime.

.criminals use guns to shoot other criminals in Britain and the United States... that is the vast majority of our gun crime rate..

So you don't really need an armed population then, just let the criminals kill each other while staying away from "bad" neighbourhoods and the problem will solve itself eventually.

Moron, you didn't read the names of the researchers doing the actual studies....you dumb twit..........they aren't lott, though he has done the most research in this area...you doofus.

The problem with most of these "research" papers is that there is a tendency to focus on one issue while ignoring other factors that might have equal or greater impact. A bit like shooting at a wall, seeing where the bullet hits and painting a target around the point of impact, then claiming a bullseye.

Read an interesting article the other day and I'll try and find a link for you. It basically said that the creation and introduction of unarmed Neighbourhood Watch schemes in America reduced violent crime in places the schemes were active by 47%; that's very close you your favourite percentage, "18.6 million Americans carry guns. Gun murder in U.S. down 49% since 1990s." Play around with these two details and you could construct an argument that "18.6 million Americans carrying guns reduced gun murder in U.S. down by only 2% since 1990s."

Not saying that's necessarily true, but you see how easy it is to manipulate data to forward an agenda.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

 

[2aguy]

politifact then stated they did an apples to apples comparison

..and subsequently stated that their "apples to apples" comparison was worthless due to there not being a standard definition of any particulat type of crime.

.criminals use guns to shoot other criminals in Britain and the United States... that is the vast majority of our gun crime rate..

So you don't really need an armed population then, just let the criminals kill each other while staying away from "bad" neighbourhoods and the problem will solve itself eventually.

Moron, you didn't read the names of the researchers doing the actual studies....you dumb twit..........they aren't lott, though he has done the most research in this area...you doofus.

The problem with most of these "research" papers is that there is a tendency to focus on one issue while ignoring other factors that might have equal or greater impact. A bit like shooting at a wall, seeing where the bullet hits and painting a target around the point of impact, then claiming a bullseye.

Read an interesting article the other day and I'll try and find a link for you. It basically said that the creation and introduction of unarmed Neighbourhood Watch schemes in America reduced violent crime in places the schemes were active by 47%; that's very close you your favourite percentage, "18.6 million Americans carry guns. Gun murder in U.S. down 49% since 1990s." Play around with these two details and you could construct an argument that "18.6 million Americans carrying guns reduced gun murder in U.S. down by only 2% since 1990s."

Not saying that's necessarily true, but you see how easy it is to manipulate data to forward an agenda.

So you don't really need an armed population then, just let the criminals kill each other while staying away from "bad" neighbourhoods and the problem will solve itself eventually.

Staying away from those neighborhoods and away from criminals as family members, friends and associates keeps you safe from the vast majority of crime in our country, the same as Britain....but, criminals aren't contained in these neighborhoods and life can throw you into dangerous situations........so having the ability to protect yourself is a God given Right.....

The problem with most of these "research" papers is that there is a tendency to focus on one issue while ignoring other factors that might have equal or greater impact.

No...they are trained researchers who take those variables int account in the research.....

Play around with these two details and you could construct an argument that "18.6 million Americans carrying guns reduced gun murder in U.S. down by only 2% since 1990s."

And again, no.......first the main point of the 18.6 million people in the United States who can actually carry guns for self defense...is the fact that the gun crime rate did not go up.....which shows that what you feel about guns is not based in reality. According to you, the mere ownership of guns should have increased the crime rate....instead, as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rates went down...showing that there is nothing wrong with normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense.....

Nothing you feel about guns is based in truth, facts or reality.

 

[2aguy]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

Yeah...the key phrase their is "allowed." Your rulers will likely never let you own guns again...once you lose them, they are generally gone forever...no matter how violent your society gets....

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

Yeah...the key phrase their is "allowed." Your rulers will likely never let you own guns again...once you lose them, they are generally gone forever...no matter how violent your society gets....

So when will our murder rates reach American levels ?

 

[2aguy]

No shootings since thursday. When will we be allowed guns like our nutty friends in America ?

Yeah...the key phrase their is "allowed." Your rulers will likely never let you own guns again...once you lose them, they are generally gone forever...no matter how violent your society gets....

So when will our murder rates reach American levels ?

When your criminals start killing each other more. Your gun control laws won't stop them. You are lucky in that your culture has slowed the pace of your violent crime. That isn't going to keep you safe....the immigrants in your country don't care about your culture, your values, your laws or your police.....

With knife crime in Britain at the highest rate ever recorded...you are right about at the point the United States was at entering the 1960s......knives were the primary weapon of our youth gangs in the 50s....and then they switched over to guns when they became focused on drugs.....those are your youth gangs......your immigrant drug gangs are moving up to guns at a faster pace...

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

Police-recorded offences involving a knife or sharp instrument rose to 46,265 for the year to March, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Friday.

This was 51 per cent higher than when data of this kind was first collected in 2011, and is the highest number on record, the report said.

Knife crime soars to highest level on record in England and Wales

The number of knife crime in England and Wales has risen 6 per cent to the highest on record, official figures show.

www.standard.co.uk

==============

Organised criminal gangs from Liverpool have risen to the summit of the UK underworld and “dominate” the firearms and drugs-trade outside London, the latest intelligence from senior officers at the National Crime Agency (NCA) reveals.
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Analysis of encrypted messages from a communications system used by criminals has shown that the city has become the preeminent location for top-tier gangs sourcing high-volume importations of drugs and automatic weapons.
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Analysis by the NFTC found that Merseyside and the broader north-west corridor was home to a network of gun factories converting low-calibre weapons such as the Czech-made Škorpion and Slovakian Grand Power into deadly automatic firearms.

Perfect said that converting weapons was seen by some in the region as a viable business.

A low-calibre Glock handgun bought for £135 in eastern Europe could be converted in just 90 seconds to a 9mm weapon that could be sold for up to £5,000.
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nalysis of the intelligence from EncroChat has revealed other surprises to firearms officers. Perfect said:

“If you’d asked me before Venetic what was the firearm of choice for an organised crime group, I’d have absolutely said the Glock handgun. Venetic showed that the Škorpion SMG and the Grand Power are now becoming that weapon of choice.”

Liverpool gangs 'dominate' gun and drugs trade outside London

But....aren't fully automatic guns illegal in Britain?