Shelling of Donetsk. "Russia, take revenge!"

[gipper]

Idiot, do you know what is written on that photo?

Heil Hitler?

 

[ESay]

Heil Hitler?

Missed.

 

[georgephillip]

The US, as shown by Biden's ridiculous speech the other day, is hypocritical. The US invades, it does whatever it wants and everyone just accepts it. What's the difference between the Ukraine and the US? Not much, other than the US can do whatever it likes.

White supremacist views are not isolated. I think there's only about 5% of the global population that's non-Hispanic white, but they punch far above their weight class in many respects.

The Fight Against White Supremacy Isn't Just an American One

 

[xyz]

White supremacist views are not isolated. I think there's only about 5% of the global population that's non-Hispanic white, but they punch far above their weight class in many respects.

The Fight Against White Supremacy Isn't Just an American One

Bullshit. Most of the US, Canada, Australia, even bigger percentage of Europe, Russia, etc. Probably close to a billion, could be less. Even if you subtract Spain.

 

[georgephillip]

Bullshit. Most of the US, Canada, Australia, even bigger percentage of Europe, Russia, etc. Probably close to a billion, could be less. Even if you subtract Spain.

I think you're right.
1.2 billion "white" out of 7.9 billion total.
~15%
Maybe 5% believe in white supremacy?

 

[toobfreak]

Stop trying to deny what you said.

If I said it, SHOW IT asshole, simple as that, or I'll report you to the mods for trying to change my words.

 

[toobfreak]

They were a sovereign nation 40 years ago. What difference does it make that they were once part of the USSR? Did you notice they HAVE prepared better since Crimea? Even before the influx of weapons from the west? But they are still a tiny country facing a much larger better funded and better armed country who is invading them.

Obviously.

the U.S. government has committed to providing the most arms, weapons and other equipment by far.

That was one of my points. I'm sick of it.

The second-ranked country, the United Kingdom, has pledged far less - just over $4 billion – in the given time frame. In relative terms, however, both military aid commitments amount to approximately 0.1 percent of either country's GDP. Looking at this metric, Ukraine's smaller neighbors contributed more to its war effort, for example Poland (military aid of 0.3 percent of GDP) or Estonia (0.8 percent). Even when combining military, financial and humanitarian aid delivered or pledged by the U.S. is added up, this only amounts to 0.2 percent the country's GDP.

It is not a simple, dry calculation to me. We have just about the least interest in Ukraine, so why should we be penalized because of our size or success? Whose dumb idea was that? And I think we are over 40 billion now, from a country whom a few years ago told Trump that the USA COULD NOT AFFORD A MERE 20 BILLION TO DEFEND OUR OWN BORDERS! I'm tired of the bullshit. I can see giving them, 8-10 billion, no more. That is a LOT of money. Next will come the appeals to send them a 100 billion to rebuild after the war is over! Why? We have no interest, worse, we cannot afford it. Every dime we spend is BORROWED money from China WITH INTEREST OWED--- will UK, Italy and Estonia and Moldova be paying down the interest on our debt?

Other big donors of military aid to Ukraine are Germany and Canada - even though their relative pledges only amount to 0.03 percent and 0.06 percent of their respective GDPs.

Then we ought to donate 0.06% too. I am not the world's keeper, and if our donations were contingent on others,. that would put pressure on OTHER countries to give more, just as Trump was doing when in office. I feel for the Ukrainians but that government is far from blameless, and maybe they WOULD get reabsorbed by Russia and that is too sad for them but not my doing nor my fault. Long overdue that this government starts representing the people who PUT them there and putting OUR needs first--- once our ducks are even REMOTELY in order and OUR people are safe, happy and prosperous, then we can look at what surplus we can afford to help other countries too.

Lots of issues within China’s sphere that are problematic particularly with human rights, what should we do?

Nothing. We have no leverage to make China do anything. Politicians have sold the USA to them right out from under us.

Russia’s military invasion of a sovereign nation marks a major break with a long established and agreed upon world order.

Exactly right, but who appointed us the world's policemen? We have ridden that horse to death and are now over THIRTY TRILLION in debt. And Biddum is spending like there is no tomorrow. And his "inflation" bill was just another joke: bribe money to leftwing pet interests which won't do jack for the average american!

Russia is a major member in the UN with veto power, which makes that much worse. This marks an existential threat to something that we have taken for granted in a way that smaller conflicts do not. Presumably Putin’s intent is to re-establish the old Soviet empire, and swallow all it’s former satellites: Georgia, Estonia etc…Poland, Serbia…

So, A). When a nation is involved in being the PROBLEM, it should be made to abrogate any say in UN affairs of which it is now the PROBLEM. And B). What next, 50 billion to Georgia when Putin attacks there first? 75 billion to Estonia, $100 billion to Poland? There is more evil in the world than any one country can solve, so, it must come back to each country resisting evil from WITHIN and taking care of business at home first, THEN give what you can afford to help other countries.

Maybe each world leader part of the UN should be made to have an explosive surgically attached under their skin and if any UN country goes rogue, you just press a button and take their leader out! Problem solved and no war necessary.

You support Israel’s right to exist, and I can’t find where you have complained our support of Israel, so why is Ukraine different?

Israel is a key, vital, and important strategic ally in keeping the ME balanced. Whether Ukraine is independent or back part of Russia again makes little difference to anyone but Russia and Ukrainians.

Look at how ruthless (channeling Stalin) Putin has been, the energy and supply chain disruptions, the energy blackmail. You can’t say it won’t affect us. It has.

What has affected us most is empowering Ukraine to put up this protracted war defending against Russia. Had we not done so, the war would have been over quickly, millions would still be alive, Ukraine would be intact, people would still be living at home, and there never would have been any need to disrupt energy, banking and supply chains.

Because we do not exist in our own universe, immune from world events.

Agreed, and I never said we were immune, still, that doesn't mean we also have to finance 95% toward every global conflict either. If neighbors to Ukraine can justify giving so little doesn't mean we need to cough up the lion's share of the rest. I'm tired of being the patsy to other countries while our own people live in crumbling cities, high crime, soaring inflation and empty shelves.

 

[frigidweirdo]

White supremacist views are not isolated. I think there's only about 5% of the global population that's non-Hispanic white, but they punch far above their weight class in many respects.

The Fight Against White Supremacy Isn't Just an American One

So?

 

[toomuchtime_]

If I said it, SHOW IT asshole, simple as that, or I'll report you to the mods for trying to change my words.

Shit for brains, when you argue the US shouldn't help Ukraine resist the Russian invaders you are arguing that the US should ignore the pleas of Ukraine for help.

 

[Coyote]

Obviously.


That was one of my points. I'm sick of it.


It is not a simple, dry calculation to me. We have just about the least interest in Ukraine, so why should we be penalized because of our size or success? Whose dumb idea was that? And I think we are over 40 billion now, from a country whom a few years ago told Trump that the USA COULD NOT AFFORD A MERE 20 BILLION TO DEFEND OUR OWN BORDERS! I'm tired of the bullshit. I can see giving them, 8-10 billion, no more. That is a LOT of money. Next will come the appeals to send them a 100 billion to rebuild after the war is over! Why? We have no interest, worse, we cannot afford it. Every dime we spend is BORROWED money from China WITH INTEREST OWED--- will UK, Italy and Estonia and Moldova be paying down the interest on our debt?


Then we ought to donate 0.06% too. I am not the world's keeper, and if our donations were contingent on others,. that would put pressure on OTHER countries to give more, just as Trump was doing when in office. I feel for the Ukrainians but that government is far from blameless, and maybe they WOULD get reabsorbed by Russia and that is too sad for them but not my doing nor my fault. Long overdue that this government starts representing the people who PUT them there and putting OUR needs first--- once our ducks are even REMOTELY in order and OUR people are safe, happy and prosperous, then we can look at what surplus we can afford to help other countries too.


Nothing. We have no leverage to make China do anything. Politicians have sold the USA to them right out from under us.


Exactly right, but who appointed us the world's policemen? We have ridden that horse to death and are now over THIRTY TRILLION in debt. And Biddum is spending like there is no tomorrow. And his "inflation" bill was just another joke: bribe money to leftwing pet interests which won't do jack for the average american!


So, A). When a nation is involved in being the PROBLEM, it should be made to abrogate any say in UN affairs of which it is now the PROBLEM. And B). What next, 50 billion to Georgia when Putin attacks there first? 75 billion to Estonia, $100 billion to Poland? There is more evil in the world than any one country can solve, so, it must come back to each country resisting evil from WITHIN and taking care of business at home first, THEN give what you can afford to help other countries.

Agree, there is too much evil, but I think Ukraine marks the stand. If the Russian invasion fails, it will be a long time before Russia can consider such actions again.

Maybe each world leader part of the UN should be made to have an explosive surgically attached under their skin and if any UN country goes rogue, you just press a button and take their leader out! Problem solved and no war necessary.

I like your out of the box thinking!

Israel is a key, vital, and important strategic ally in keeping the ME balanced. Whether Ukraine is independent or back part of Russia again makes little difference to anyone but Russia and Ukrainians.

Disagree on this. It makes a difference to much of Europe because….who’s next?

Going back to Russia and Eastern Europe. It seems to me you are de facto throwing away that entire region as useless…let Russia do what they will. Hasn’t the West done that over and over throughout history? Yet multiple wars that either originated there or engulfed that region have ended up drawing us in only AFTER they wreaked a lot of devastation and human cost. Seems to me we ignore that at our peril.

When it comes to the Middle East, I’ll throw your same argument back at you: why should the Middle East concern us? Why shouldn’t we let Israel, the Arab Countries, work out their own issues? What is there of value there?

I can make several arguments that apply to both backing Ukraine and Israel and other regions we tend to ignore.

A big argument for me is human rights, but that in and of itself doesn’t tend to convince people it is in our national interest. Action has consequences but so does lack of action. So you do nothing to support Ukraine and Russia swallows her. Then Georgia. The Stan’s. Poland. Etc. I am sure China is taking notice as well, and a successful Russian invasion might encourage a more aggressive Chinese world policy. Without our support, it would be much harder for our European allies to hold the line and if Russia continues it’s expansion, they are the next target. No different than our ally Israel. And don’t forget two world wars came out of Europe.

What has affected us most is empowering Ukraine to put up this protracted war defending against Russia. Had we not done so, the war would have been over quickly, millions would still be alive, Ukraine would be intact, people would still be living at home, and there never would have been any need to disrupt energy, banking and supply chains.

The Ukrainians fought like hell with what they had. They did not sit back and expect others to do it for them. The alternative is not just losing their autonomy, it is losing their culture and identity. That is what Stalin Putin is doing. Ukranian civilians in captured territory are either being tortured, murdered, or sent to “filtration camps” where, if they survive, they are being sent to remote, sparsely populated parts of Russia, without the papers to travel back. Many have had their children taken from them and have no what happened to them or where they are. Stalin did this, mass forced population transfers to dilute ethnic populations…many of whom did not survive. If THEY are willing to fight for their exhistence then they deserve our assistance.

Agreed, and I never said we were immune, still, that doesn't mean we also have to finance 95% toward every global conflict either. If neighbors to Ukraine can justify giving so little doesn't mean we need to cough up the lion's share of the rest. I'm tired of being the patsy to other countries while our own people live in crumbling cities, high crime, soaring inflation and empty shelves.

We don’t finance every global conflict….and keep in mind, one of those other countries is coughing up 3 times what we are and another 6 times what we are (proportionate to GDP).

 

[toobfreak]

Shit for brains, when you argue the US shouldn't help Ukraine resist the Russian invaders

Where did I ever say that?

you are arguing that the US should ignore the pleas of Ukraine for help.

We seem pretty good at ignoring the Tibetan's pleas for help! We ignore the Texans, Arizonans, New Mexicans, Kurds, and Floridians pleas for help! We ignore senior citizen's and the poor's pleas for help! But the Ukrainians, you got them covered.

 

[toobfreak]

It makes a difference to much of Europe because….who’s next?

Glad you see that, so then, THEY ought to be financing 95% of Ukraine's war then, not us.

Going back to Russia and Eastern Europe. It seems to me you are de facto throwing away that entire region as useless…let Russia do what they will. Hasn’t the West done that over and over throughout history? Yet multiple wars that either originated there or engulfed that region have ended up drawing us in only AFTER they wreaked a lot of devastation and human cost. Seems to me we ignore that at our peril.

Virtually every conflict and battle we have ever stuck our nose into turned out far worse afterwards.

why should the Middle East concern us?

Oil.

Why shouldn’t we let Israel, the Arab Countries, work out their own issues? What is there of value there?

Israel is the lone democracy there.

 

[Coyote]

Glad you see that, so then, THEY ought to be financing 95% of Ukraine's war then, not us.

Their economies are much smaller.

Virtually every conflict and battle we have ever stuck our nose into turned out far worse afterwards.

Not the last two world wars. Not Bosnia either. But most of them? Ya.

Oil.

We export more oil than we import. From what we import, only 11% is from OPEC…. So, I’m not seeing why we should care.

Israel is the lone democracy there.

Ukraine is a democracy, under attack from an authoritarian nation. Is it of less value because it isn’t the only democracy? Actually…Lebanon is also a democracy…so, it is moot.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Where did I ever say that?


We seem pretty good at ignoring the Tibetan's pleas for help! We ignore the Texans, Arizonans, New Mexicans, Kurds, and Floridians pleas for help! We ignore senior citizen's and the poor's pleas for help! But the Ukrainians, you got them covered.

"Wait, are you saying that Ringo personally is killing people in Ukraine?

Lots of civilians dead in war. Just ask Joe Biden and the families and children he murdered pulling out of Afghanistan mistaking them for terrorists.

People die in war, which is why Biden should have done everything to AVOID a war there rather than ESCALATE and protract it."

So you characterize US military aid to Ukraine as escalating and protracting the war, but if not for the military aid providing by the US and other democracies Ukraine would not have been able to effectively resisted the Russian invaders. To not have aided Ukraine would have been to ignore their pleas for help.

" I am not the world's keeper, and if our donations were contingent on others,. that would put pressure on OTHER countries to give more, just as Trump was doing when in office. I feel for the Ukrainians but that government is far from blameless, and maybe they WOULD get reabsorbed by Russia and that is too sad for them but not my doing nor my fault. Long overdue that this government starts representing the people who PUT them there and putting OUR needs first--- once our ducks are even REMOTELY in order and OUR people are safe, happy and prosperous, then we can look at what surplus we can afford to help other countries too."

Here again you argue the US should not help Ukraine to effectively resist the Russian invaders, which of course would involve ignoring their pleas for help.

 

[para bellum]

Idiot, do you know what is written on that photo?

I see a swastika on a Russian flag, I don't know how that proves Ukrainians are Nazis.

Dumb.

 

[ESay]

I see a swastika on a Russian flag, I don't know how that proves Ukrainians are Nazis.

Dumb.

Exactly. What is written there is The occupants' colors.

 

[toobfreak]

Their economies are much smaller.

Yes but there are 30-40 of them! And Ukraine is their backdoor neighbor to many of them! Too many needy countries out there being buoyed off american life support as if it were our responsibility. Countries who need so much help maybe aren't meant to succeed, besides, I'm still wondering where our great help was to the Tibetans? Despite decades of pleading, the USA hasn't given the Tibetans $5 worth of help.

We export more oil than we import.…. So, I’m not seeing why we should care.

Oil is money, security, stability and power.

Ukraine is a democracy,

You wouldn't know it to listen to many people.

 

[toobfreak]

"Wait, are you saying that Ringo personally is killing people in Ukraine?

You have too much time indeed. Maybe you'd like to crawl up inside my ass and play with my balls, too?

 

[gipper]

Yes, they have. And people got a little fed up of wars and didn't really expect this sort of thing in the 21st century.

Here is good information you likely know nothing about. Pay close attention to the emboldened type, as I made it easy for you.

Let us agree that the place called Ukraine was never any of America’s business. For centuries we ignored it, through all the colorful cavalry charges to-and-fro of Turks and Tatars, the reign of the dashing Zaporozhian Cossacks, the cruel abuses of Stalin, then Hitler, and the dull, gray Khrushchev-to-Yeltsin years. But then, having destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia and sundry other places all on a great hegemonic lark, the professional warmongers of our land and their catamites in Washington made Ukraine their next special project. They engineered the 2014 coup in Kiev that ousted the elected president, Mr. Yanyukovich, to set up a giant grifting parlor and international money-laundromat. The other strategic aim was to prepare Ukraine for NATO membership, which would have made it, in effect, a forward missile base right up against Russia’s border. Because, well, Russia, Russia, Russia!

An early beneficiary of these arrangements, you might recall, was one Hunter Biden, the drug-addicted, sex-obsessed, no-account son of Barack Obama’s no-account vice-president then known simply as Joe Biden sans quote-marks — because in 2014, he was a closer approximation of a real person than is sadly now the case. In fact, he was known as “The Big Guy” among Hunter’s business coterie (though listed as “Pedo Peter” on Hunter’s speed-dial). After the 2014 coup, and for years beyond, Hunter pulled a steady revenue stream out of Ukraine’s Burisma Holdings, a natgas distributor (among other things), serving as a know-nothing, no-show board member. When this monkey business came to the attention of President Trump, and he made a telephone inquiry about it, he was instantly beset by swarms of DC swamp vermin hoisting writs of impeachment.

Fast forward through the past eight years and you have Kiev’s persecution of the Russian-speaking Donbas provinces, the constant shelling and harassment by Banderite Nazis. Between that and the ever more strident urgings for Ukraine to join NATO, President Putin of Russia, Russia, Russia apparently had enough. In February of this year, he started the Special Military Operation to put an end to these hostilities. By April, when whole battalions of Ukrainian Nazis had been exterminated, a call to peace talks was issued by Mr. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister. This was shot-down without ceremony by “Joe Biden” (that is, by the junta behind him). The genius strategists in Foggy Bottom aimed to “weaken” Russia. To what end? (you might ask). Okay: Reasons….

Hence, many hard-fought battles on-the-ground later, Ukraine has lost roughly 70,000 troops killed to Russia’s roughly 6,000 KIA. The USA pours $10-billion-a-month into this venture, including missiles aplenty and other ordnance, in a stupid effort to prolong the conflict and bankrupt our own land. Thus, Mr. Putin has decided to stop pussyfooting around Ukraine, and declared an upgrade in Russia’s effort to put a conclusive end to these shenanigans. He set this forth clearly in a sober speech Wednesday, which included a reminder to the geniuses in the White House basement game room that Russia is a nuclear power.

“Joe Biden” (looking like the ghost of Konstantin Chernenko) answered in a speech to the UN General Assembly the next day, a maundering recitation of sanctimonious bluster, larded with climate hysteria to alarm and bamboozle the UN’s scores of Third World delegates, with not a word about any possible peace talks — because peaceful resolution of the conflict is the last thing that our government wants. It wants war, meaning we citizens of this land will get it, good and hard, if the puppeteers working “Joe Biden’s” mouth get their way. Prepare to live in an ashtray.
'Joe Biden’s' Last Stand - LewRockwell

 

[georgephillip]

So?

Good guys don't shake hands with Nazis.