Serious Question for MAGA

[sparky]

This is very simple....Big Bro does not work for you......

~S~

 

[forkup]

The issue, when it comes to public dialogue, is that partisans "cherry-pick" the facts - and for my purposes I will assume they are facts - focusing on the ones that support their Narrative.

Case in point: Homicides in the District of Columbia. The Right points out that the D.C. homicide rate would be the worst in the nation if D.C. were a State. That is a FACT. The Left points out that the homicide rate in D.C. is less than it was last year. That is also a FACT.

The problem is not the reporting of facts, or even the selective reporting of facts. The problem is that in our age of unfettered "advocacy" the public simply accepts the fact that partisans are full of shit. They are never held to account. It's OK because they are understood to be partisans.

Again, case in point: Senator (then Congressman) Adam Schiff lied his ass off about Russia collusion...claimed that as a member of Congress he was privy to facts unknown to the public that PROVED Trump's campaign conspired with operatives of the Russian Federation to cook the election. Now we know [many of us have known for years] that these claims were all LIES. Not differences of opinion, not slanted understandings, but LIES. And he pays no price. We are expected to simply move along and ignore what he did, because, you know, he was just a partisan politician doing what partisan politicians do.

I refuse. Lying in public is unacceptable, and people like that, regardless of what side of the Divide he occupies, should be shunned, and removed if possible.

You are making a point just not in the way you want. You are stating very confidently that there was no Russian collusion and that they lied and therefore should face consequences.

Here's the thing.

1. Mueller Report (Special Counsel Robert Mueller, Volume II, pp. 129–144)
The Mueller Report—Volume II—includes an unredacted filing that revealed that while he was campaign chairman, Paul Manafort met with Konstantin Kilimnik, whom investigators believe to be a Russian intelligence officer. The Report states:
“Manafort … met with Konstantin Kilimnik, who is believed to be a Russian intelligence officer. … Manafort gave him polling data related to the 2016 campaign and discussed a Ukrainian peace plan with him. Most of the polling data was reportedly public, although some was private Trump campaign polling data.” He also asked Kilimnik to pass the data to Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov. ([Mueller Report Vol. II, pp. 129–144])


2. Senate Intelligence Committee – Volume V (August 18, 2020), pp. 232–233
The Senate’s comprehensive Volume V report underscores the severity:

“Manafort’s high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services … represented a grave counterintelligence threat.” ([Senate Intel Report Vol. V, pp. 232–233])

It explicitly identifies Kilimnik as a Russian intelligence officer and states that Manafort repeatedly tried to “secretly share internal Campaign information with Kilimnik,” including “sensitive internal polling data or Campaign strategy.” ([Senate Intel Report Vol. V, pp. 232–233])

The report also notes:

“Some evidence suggests that Konstantin Kilimnik … was connected to the Russian military intelligence’s hack and leak operation related to the 2016 election,” though that section is heavily redacted. ([Senate Intel Report Vol. V, pp. 234–235])

So consider this: senior campaign officials knowingly provided internal polling and strategic campaign data to someone officially assessed as part of Russian intelligence. Most people would call that collusion—or at least something that merits very serious scrutiny.

Which raises the question: were you genuinely unaware of these documented facts, or did you choose to dismiss them? If by your own logic those who knowingly misrepresent the facts should face consequences, then the same standard should apply to anyone confidently asserting “there was no collusion.”

I have as my source for facts the Mueller report and the Senate intelligence committees report led by Rubio with page numbers if you want to verify. What do you have?

So yes partisanship plays a huge role. Not just because data is cherry picked. But because people have internalized narratives that simply aren't supported by facts.

 

[Mac1958]

I’m not MAGA but have a question for you. Do you trust America's institutions, such as the press, the courts, the government, regulatory bodies and statistical reporting?

Largely, yes. And proper structure and efficient ongoing oversight would improve them.

Not blind, hyperpartisan, authoritarian politics.

I'm not an "all or nothing" type.

 

[Mac1958]

"Statistical reporting" is an institution? Good gravy. Why would anyone take you seriously?

It's not required that you do.

 

[Woodznutz]

Americans’ Deepening Mistrust of Institutions

I want to keep this question as straightforward and benign as I can.

I think we can all agree that MAGA, in general, has a lower level of trust in America's institutions, such as the press, the courts, the government, regulatory bodies and statistical reporting. Let me know if you disagree.

Based on that, we're seeing a general divergence in America's ability to look at a number or a result or a "fact" and agree on what it is. I'm actually not sure if MAGA considers that to be a good thing or a bad thing, so please comment on that.

So, my question(s): What is your long-term opinion of how our society and civilization look like as this continues? What do you suppose happens as the gulf between basic perceptions widens? Is that where you see a literal split in the country, away from 50 states, and is that your goal?

We've "institutionalized" our problems instead of solving them. Worse, people don't seem to care.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Americans’ Deepening Mistrust of Institutions

I want to keep this question as straightforward and benign as I can.

I think we can all agree that MAGA, in general, has a lower level of trust in America's institutions, such as the press, the courts, the government, regulatory bodies and statistical reporting. Let me know if you disagree.

Based on that, we're seeing a general divergence in America's ability to look at a number or a result or a "fact" and agree on what it is. I'm actually not sure if MAGA considers that to be a good thing or a bad thing, so please comment on that.

So, my question(s): What is your long-term opinion of how our society and civilization look like as this continues? What do you suppose happens as the gulf between basic perceptions widens? Is that where you see a literal split in the country, away from 50 states, and is that your goal?

I think the distrust is directly related to the political divide. As long as we remain polarized, we risk a deepening gap. Ive said it before, at some point, we the people are going to have to start finding common ground. Thats the point at which healing starts.

 

[Mac1958]

I think the distrust is directly related to the political divide. As long as we remain polarized, we risk a deepening gap. Ive said it before, at some point, we the people are going to have to start finding common ground. Thats the point at which healing starts.

I'm afraid that every day we get more divided means a decrease in any chance of healing.

While I can't see how we get there from here, I'll always hold out hope, for my kids' sake.

 

[SweetTea]

"Statistical reporting" is an institution? Good gravy. Why would anyone take you seriously?

GIGO

 

[JGalt]

Americans’ Deepening Mistrust of Institutions

I want to keep this question as straightforward and benign as I can.

I think we can all agree that MAGA, in general, has a lower level of trust in America's institutions, such as the press, the courts, the government, regulatory bodies and statistical reporting. Let me know if you disagree.

Based on that, we're seeing a general divergence in America's ability to look at a number or a result or a "fact" and agree on what it is. I'm actually not sure if MAGA considers that to be a good thing or a bad thing, so please comment on that.

So, my question(s): What is your long-term opinion of how our society and civilization look like as this continues? What do you suppose happens as the gulf between basic perceptions widens? Is that where you see a literal split in the country, away from 50 states, and is that your goal?

I did not see one single instance of the word "MAGA" in the article you posted, nor was Trump even mentioned. So I'm assuming you meant "Republicans." From the statistics given in the article, you can come away with one conclusion: Republicans tend to be more likely to question America's institutions, while Democrats have apparently become the establishment. That would mean to me that the intent of all those protests we see Democrats doing, is not as much about about change, as it is about perpetuating the status quo.

 

[Hafar1014]

I'm afraid that every day we get more divided means a decrease in any chance of healing.

While I can't see how we get there from here, I'll always hold out hope, for my kids' sake.

We heal as socialism is beaten down in America

 

[Woodznutz]

"Statistical reporting" is an institution? Good gravy. Why would anyone take you seriously?

Statistical reporting is the only way politicians and policy makers understand issues and problems. Data is of no value to them.

 

[martybegan]

I'm afraid that every day we get more divided means a decrease in any chance of healing.

While I can't see how we get there from here, I'll always hold out hope, for my kids' sake.

If the left learns to stay in their lane, maybe we can get back to civil discourse.

 

[Woodznutz]

I think the distrust is directly related to the political divide. As long as we remain polarized, we risk a deepening gap. Ive said it before, at some point, we the people are going to have to start finding common ground. Thats the point at which healing starts.

Won't happen. Our differences are baked in.

 

[Mac1958]

Okay, so things will be better IF the Left capitulates or is beaten/eliminated.

What if that doesn't happen?

 

[Woodznutz]

If the left learns to stay in their lane, maybe we can get back to civil discourse.

Most of our problems occur outside of politics. We are all crippled by our human nature and are blind to it as the cause of our problems. We are like a person with a severe handicap. We can jump up and down and scream and holler all we want but at the end of the day we are still severely handicapped.

 

[martybegan]

Most of our problems occur outside of politics. We are all crippled by our human nature and are blind to it as the cause of our problems. We are like a person with a severe handicap. We can jump up and down and scream and holler all we want but at the end of the day we are still severely handicapped.

Too metaphysical for me. The whole history of human existence is overcoming our limitations and moving forward while retaining what we find works.

 

[candycorn]

MAGA means less taxes less government and control of our lives,

You're paying more in taxes now than you did under biden (the price increases are a result of Tariffs which are taxes on imported goods) and the nation's capitol is now under military control.

I would say pull your head out of your ass but I think your ears are probably too full of shit for you to actually hear anything.

 

[sparky]

Most of our problems occur outside of politics. We are all crippled by our human nature and are blind to it as the cause of our problems. We are like a person with a severe handicap. We can jump up and down and scream and holler all we want but at the end of the day we are still severely handicapped.

well we have to agree that there IS a problem first Woodz.....~S~

 

[DonGlock26]

Americans’ Deepening Mistrust of Institutions

I want to keep this question as straightforward and benign as I can.

I think we can all agree that MAGA, in general, has a lower level of trust in America's institutions, such as the press, the courts, the government, regulatory bodies and statistical reporting. Let me know if you disagree.

Based on that, we're seeing a general divergence in America's ability to look at a number or a result or a "fact" and agree on what it is. I'm actually not sure if MAGA considers that to be a good thing or a bad thing, so please comment on that.

So, my question(s): What is your long-term opinion of how our society and civilization look like as this continues? What do you suppose happens as the gulf between basic perceptions widens? Is that where you see a literal split in the country, away from 50 states, and is that your goal?

Do you trust the press, the courts, the government, regulatory bodies, and statistical reporting?

If the Left's social revolution continues, the nation will collapse.

Cloward–Piven strategy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sparky]

Okay, so things will be better IF the Left capitulates or is beaten/eliminated.

What if that doesn't happen?

it always happens, the political pendulum only swings left/right Mac

~S~