Scriptures that pertain to a place of purgation (Purgatory)

[rightnow909]

Rom.8:1, "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Purgatory is condemnation . As believers we are judged for our conduct and work in relation to rewards not to our destination. Because salvation is a gift that has already been settled.

u show your ignorance of Catholicism like all Catholicism haters...

Purgatory is NOT condemnation. why don't you study a topic b4 you go around acting like an expert on it?

sheez... no wonder I have lost patience w/ Protestants..

 

[rightnow909]

I am fine with you waiting. Look intently, but you shall not see. (Isaiah) Therefore, move on because if you cannot see it in scripture on your own, you certainly will not see it even when someone points to it.

it's unbelievable how big and thick a wall the anti-catholics have around them... absolutely REFUSE to learn what the Church really teaches...

they could attend RCIA

they are afraid to find out maybe the Church they think the RCC is, is not really that at all...

cowards

 

[rightnow909]

"The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

forgiveness does not remove the RESIDUAL effects of the sin.

If you cheat on your spouse and he or she forgives you, does that mean the marriage you had before the infidelity is the same exact marriage you have afterwards?

 

[ninja007]

u show your ignorance of Catholicism like all Catholicism haters...

Purgatory is NOT condemnation. why don't you study a topic b4 you go around acting like an expert on it?

sheez... no wonder I have lost patience w/ Protestants..

SURE IT IS.

 

[The Irish Ram]

There is 1 Cor 3:15 which speaks of how, if a Christian's work for the Lord is not perfect, he will be saved, "yet as through fire"

Then there is St Paul who said that "we must undergo many difficulties in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

There is Mt 18:23 (I believe it is ) that tells a parable by Jesus about a man who was forgiven his entire debt (Protestants would say he had been born again) but then he refused to forgive someone who owed him considerably less than he had owed "his master." The master of course is God. So this person who had "been saved" (this is also a psg against Once Saved Always Saved) now once again incurred the debt he had before. And he would not get out of what I will call debtor's prison "until he had paid back all."

Some scholars have said this is in reference to Hell and it very well may be.. but it could about Purgatory OR both... I tend to think both... some say it is about Hell because we humans can NEVER pay back to God what we owe.

some focus on the word Until... he is handed over to the torturers UNTIL..... he pays back the debt

So, Christ suffered and died for you to go to hell until you are punished enough for your sins? That means the God who judges perfectly, condemned 2 men for the same crime.

If your sins were nailed to a cross and God doesn't remember your sins, then who reminded Him when you die that you need punished for them some more? More than what His Son was already punished. In that case what was the point?


Do you know what Christ uttered before He died? "Tetelestai." It means, "Paid in Full". Your debt. Your sins. Paid in full. That means you don't owe anything. The debt was paid for you. Those whose sins have been paid in full, and are sin free, go to Heaven when they die. Where your mansion is, and your crowns for the good behavior you showed for Jesus' sake. You go to your Bema coronation. Not Hell. The patrons of Hell are awaiting trial at the White Throne Judgement.

 

[The Irish Ram]

forgiveness does not remove the RESIDUAL effects of the sin.

If you cheat on your spouse and he or she forgives you, does that mean the marriage you had before the infidelity is the same exact marriage you have afterwards?

Depends on who is doing the forgiving. If you ask God to forgive you, not only are you forgiven, but God puts the matter behind him, with no residual side effects. A wife's forgiveness may not be so all encompassing...

 

[ReinyDays]

you have misquoted (deliberately?) the Bible

Jesus said Suffer the children to come to me.

You say He said otherwise

“But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

 

[rightnow909]

So, Christ suffered and died for you to go to hell until you are punished enough for your sins? That means the God who judges perfectly, condemned 2 men for the same crime.

If your sins were nailed to a cross and God doesn't remember your sins, then who reminded Him when you die that you need punished for them some more? More than what His Son was already punished. In that case what was the point?


Do you know what Christ uttered before He died? "Tetelestai." It means, "Paid in Full". Your debt. Your sins. Paid in full. That means you don't owe anything. The debt was paid for you. Those whose sins have been paid in full, and are sin free, go to Heaven when they die. Where your mansion is, and your crowns for the good behavior you showed for Jesus' sake. You go to your Bema coronation. Not Hell. The patrons of Hell are awaiting trial at the White Throne Judgement.

straw men galore

i didn't even finish reading this bc it is based on a false premise... No one said anything like this...

 

[rightnow909]

Depends on who is doing the forgiving. If you ask God to forgive you, not only are you forgiven, but God puts the matter behind him, with no residual side effects. A wife's forgiveness may not be so all encompassing...

true enough...

obviously, God forgives better than humans... Who would argue with that?

However, sin causes a bad effect in the soul... Only Jesus knows how to get the soul into pristine shape... Sometimes we humans beat ourselves up too much and focus on things Jesus does not focus on ... and yet... Jesus is so Holy that... who can stand in His Holy Presence? It is not as easy as Protestants claim...

Humans are resistant to absolute holiness... they want to cling to their... human-ness... They cannot do that and get into Heaven.. and since God has mercy on us.. he gives us purgatory...

Mt 18:23
1 Cor 3:15

Maccabbees

 

[The Irish Ram]

true enough...

obviously, God forgives better than humans... Who would argue with that?

However, sin causes a bad effect in the soul... Only Jesus knows how to get the soul into pristine shape... Sometimes we humans beat ourselves up too much and focus on things Jesus does not focus on ... and yet... Jesus is so Holy that... who can stand in His Holy Presence? It is not as easy as Protestants claim...

Humans are resistant to absolute holiness... they want to cling to their... human-ness... They cannot do that and get into Heaven.. and since God has mercy on us.. he gives us purgatory...

Mt 18:23
1 Cor 3:15

Maccabbees

No, He gives you love, and forgiveness and dances over you and can't wait to get His arms around you. He blames your sin directly on Satan. And He is about to let Satan have it. Not you.
You, He cradles in His arms and sings over. You, He considers His little lamb, and sent His best Shepherd to take care of.
Shepherds never punish their sheep for bad behavior, because as sweet as little lambs are, they are dumb. They have no idea what their doing. A Shepherd guards them against harm, because lambs are defenseless against predators. He doesn't save them from harm just to harm them some more because they wandered off.

You are not going to hell. If you belong to Jesus, you are not going anywhere but to Jesus when you are done with basic training here on earth, and will be coming back with Him as a member of the Royal Family in Good Standing to rule and reign with your brother and co-heir for eternity over everything your Father has created, which could be boundless.

IN my Father's house are many mansions: if it wasn't so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you. < YOU.

 

[CommieKillingMommy]

There is 1 Cor 3:15 which speaks of how, if a Christian's work for the Lord is not perfect, he will be saved, "yet as through fire"

Then there is St Paul who said that "we must undergo many difficulties in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

There is Mt 18:23 (I believe it is ) that tells a parable by Jesus about a man who was forgiven his entire debt (Protestants would say he had been born again) but then he refused to forgive someone who owed him considerably less than he had owed "his master." The master of course is God. So this person who had "been saved" (this is also a psg against Once Saved Always Saved) now once again incurred the debt he had before. And he would not get out of what I will call debtor's prison "until he had paid back all."

Some scholars have said this is in reference to Hell and it very well may be.. but it could about Purgatory OR both... I tend to think both... some say it is about Hell because we humans can NEVER pay back to God what we owe.

some focus on the word Until... he is handed over to the torturers UNTIL..... he pays back the debt

 

[rightnow909]

So, Christ suffered and died for you to go to hell until you are punished enough for your sins? That means the God who judges perfectly, condemned 2 men for the same crime.

If your sins were nailed to a cross and God doesn't remember your sins, then who reminded Him when you die that you need punished for them some more? More than what His Son was already punished. In that case what was the point?


Do you know what Christ uttered before He died? "Tetelestai." It means, "Paid in Full". Your debt. Your sins. Paid in full. That means you don't owe anything. The debt was paid for you. Those whose sins have been paid in full, and are sin free, go to Heaven when they die. Where your mansion is, and your crowns for the good behavior you showed for Jesus' sake. You go to your Bema coronation. Not Hell. The patrons of Hell are awaiting trial at the White Throne Judgement.

Christ paid for our sins in full... but that does not mean there is no residual effect on our all-2-human souls..

If you threw a rock and accidentally broke your neighbor's window.. would you say OoopS... sorry...

and expect that that apology alone is the end of the matter? The neighbor is not to expect you to pay for another window? The neighbor may say he forgives you but that does not eliminate your responsibility to replace the window

 

[rightnow909]

thanks for this

can't watch at this moment but ... later

 

[The Irish Ram]

Christ paid for our sins in full... but that does not mean there is no residual effect on our all-2-human souls..

If you threw a rock and accidentally broke your neighbor's window.. would you say OoopS... sorry...

and expect that that apology alone is the end of the matter? The neighbor is not to expect you to pay for another window? The neighbor may say he forgives you but that does not eliminate your responsibility to replace the windowIt means exactally that.

God sent someone else in your place to pay for the window...

Atonement ~ reparation for an offense.
Reparation ~ the making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.

Christ's work is complete so no one can boast that they had a hand in it:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In fact it pisses God off for us to think we are needed to pick up Christ's slack:
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
^
Study to understand just what rags God is referring to. It's not the ones you use to clean your car...


So, NOWHERE does it say, "If you pay for 1/2 the window, Christ will pony up the rest...

 

[rightnow909]

So, Christ suffered and died for you to go to hell until you are punished enough for your sins? That means the God who judges perfectly, condemned 2 men for the same crime.

If your sins were nailed to a cross and God doesn't remember your sins, then who reminded Him when you die that you need punished for them some more? More than what His Son was already punished. In that case what was the point?


Do you know what Christ uttered before He died? "Tetelestai." It means, "Paid in Full". Your debt. Your sins. Paid in full. That means you don't owe anything. The debt was paid for you. Those whose sins have been paid in full, and are sin free, go to Heaven when they die. Where your mansion is, and your crowns for the good behavior you showed for Jesus' sake. You go to your Bema coronation. Not Hell. The patrons of Hell are awaiting trial at the White Throne Judgement.

If you were perfectly ready for Heaven as soon as you accept Jesus, well, you would die immediately. There would be no reason to continue living.

And yet people go on living after baptism

happens all the time

they have things to learn... they must grow in Christ... No unclean thing will enter Heaven, says Revelation...

 

[rightnow909]

God sent someone else in your place to pay for the window...

Atonement ~ reparation for an offense.
Reparation ~ the making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.

Christ's work is complete so no one can boast that they had a hand in it:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In fact it pisses God off for us to think we are needed to pick up Christ's slack:
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
^
Study to understand just what rags God is referring to. It's not the ones you use to clean your car...


So, NOWHERE does it say, "If you pay for 1/2 the window, Christ will pony up the rest...

don't tell me to study. It is you who does not know what I know...

i have been outside theChurch and also inside and I have studied the history and the Catechism

obviously, u have not. I know what protestants know bc I know the Bible, have read the entire thing.. but you do not know what I know...

and you seem to be afraid to learn it

but that is your choice...

 

[The Irish Ram]

And you seem to be arrogant when it may not be warranted. I have seen some pretty odd posts coming from you. Never the less, I try to be civil. As for Catechism, I prefer Bible knowledge, not church knowledge.

Were you the one in one of these threads that made the statement, Well, God said honor your mother and father or else you'll die?

I meant to correct it, but couldn't find it later on...

 

[rightnow909]

God sent someone else in your place to pay for the window...

Atonement ~ reparation for an offense.
Reparation ~ the making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.

Christ's work is complete so no one can boast that they had a hand in it:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In fact it pisses God off for us to think we are needed to pick up Christ's slack:
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
^
Study to understand just what rags God is referring to. It's not the ones you use to clean your car...


So, NOWHERE does it say, "If you pay for 1/2 the window, Christ will pony up the rest...

this is WRONG.

God does not let you get away with crime and sin with no reparation at all... just because you accepted him last year

Get out of here... illogical, Captain...

 

[rightnow909]

And you seem to be arrogant when it may not be warranted. I have seen some pretty odd posts coming from you. Never the less, I try to be civil. As for Catechism, I prefer Bible knowledge, not church knowledge.

Were you the one in one of these threads that made the statement, Well, God said honor your mother and father or else you'll die?

I meant to correct it, but couldn't find it later on...

no, i didn't say that but it is written in the OT, kids were stoned for not honoring their parents, I believe..

but other than that, i don't know how to respond.. I don't think I am being uncivil just bc I say what i really think. And the Catechism does not contradict Scripture but I am sure your protestant pastor told you that and you do not question him...

then you get on Catholics' cases for following the pope as you follow your pastor...

(even though these days, that is not exactly happening)

 

[The Irish Ram]

I don't follow a pastor or a religion. I gain my own information and insight. I am the pastor to my church's youth group and teachers and preachers are held to a higher standard. So, you can bet I do my homework. To show myself approved, but more so to make sure my kids know their Savior.
James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
If those kids can't find it in the Bible, they take it with a grain of salt. If someone takes a verse and tries to make it a theme, they look for corroborating scripture to validate it. Those end time children will not be deceived. They are not Catholic, Methodists, Baptists, Episcopalians, or LDS. They are Christians. They belong to Christ.

And you know what else they know? They know that Paul said, "Absent from the body is present with the Lord." And they trust Paul more than they trust a Pope. They have mansions up there, and that is where their Father is waiting for them. They know that they are white as snow, without condemnation, washed clean by the blood of the Lamb. They know that they are loved. So, who is going to condemn them? Jesus? He died to get them up there. God? He doesn't remember any of their sins.

Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.…