Scriptures that pertain to a place of purgation (Purgatory)

[rightnow909]

Depends on who is doing the forgiving. If you ask God to forgive you, not only are you forgiven, but God puts the matter behind him, with no residual side effects.

with no residual side effects.

right. If you have ever committed a serious sin, you have seen residual side effects. And I KNOW you have sinned.. We are all sinners... Only Jesus and Mary were sinless

Mary was conceived without original sin

 

[rightnow909]

I don't follow a pastor or a religion. I gain my own information and insight. I am the pastor to my church's youth group and teachers and preachers are held to a higher standard. So, you can bet I do my homework. To show myself approved, but more so to make sure my kids know their Savior.
James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
If those kids can't find it in the Bible, they take it with a grain of salt. If someone takes a verse and tries to make it a theme, they look for corroborating scripture to validate it. Those end time children will not be deceived. They are not Catholic, Methodists, Baptists, Episcopalians, or LDS. They are Christians. They belong to Christ.

And you know what else they know? They know that Paul said, "Absent from the body is present with the Lord." And they trust Paul more than they trust a Pope. They have mansions up there, and that is where their Father is waiting for them. They know that they are white as snow, without condemnation, washed clean by the blood of the Lamb. They know that they are loved. So, who is going to condemn them? Jesus? He died to get them up there. God? He doesn't remember any of their sins.

Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.…

Paul said to be absent in the body is to be present w/ the Lord

so are you saying this means that those destined for Hell are "with the Lord"

please

 

[The Irish Ram]

with no residual side effects.

right. If you have ever committed a serious sin, you have seen residual side effects. And I KNOW you have sinned.. We are all sinners... Only Jesus and Mary were sinless

Mary was conceived without original sin

Do you have a chart to show the sin ratings? Did God forgive David of murder because it was a minor sin? The Bible says God turns His back on sin. Does He turn more quickly depending on the level of the crime? The Catholic Church grades sin on the curve. God does not. Sin is sin.

Sin residue doesn't cling to you. You are washed clean, justified, and MADE RIGHTEOUS by the blood of Jesus Christ, and your work had nothing to do with it:

Romans 5:1-11 Therefore, since we have been made righteous through his faithfulness combined with our faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus ...

For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement ...

Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith

the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

The Blood the Blood the Blood. You aren't even mentioned...

Read this passage over and over and shout it out when you come to the part that tells you how much unrighteousness He forgive you of:
... he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Is God lying or is the Catholic Church?

 

[The Irish Ram]

right. If you have ever committed a serious sin, you have seen residual side effects. And I KNOW you have sinned.. We are all sinners... Only Jesus and Mary were sinles
Mary was conceived without original sin

That isn't just dogma, that is Catholic deceit. It makes God a liar. Because He said "ALL HAVE SINNED". If Mary was a human being. Mary had sin. And NO WHERE in the Bible does it say otherwise:
...the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. <<<That title and description can not be claimed by any other person in the Bible.

This is the situation Mary was in if she was a human being:
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Mary said her spirit rejoiced in God, her Savior. What does a sinless person need a savior? Saved from what???

 

[The Irish Ram]

Paul said to be absent in the body is to be present w/ the Lord

so are you saying this means that those destined for Hell are "with the Lord"

please

Not unless the Lord's in Hell. Which He is not. He is in Heaven sitting at the right hand of God, resting and interceding on our behalf. And preparing my mansion, and yours. If it wasn't true He'd have said so...

My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

Mark 16:19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God​

Romans 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.​

1Peter 3:22 Who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

^^^
I can post over 100 passages that tell you exactly where Jesus is and where the saved go when they die. You just don't seem to comprehend, but boy are you going to be happy when you die and instead of going to purgatory, your escorted to your coronation in Heaven.

Those destined for hell are those who did not accept the gift Christ offered and instead died with their sins intact. They will remain in Hell until they are called to the Great White Throne Judgment. You ,are not one of those, even if you are Catholic, lol.

 

[rightnow909]

Do you have a chart to show the sin ratings? Did God forgive David of murder because it was a minor sin? The Bible says God turns His back on sin. Does He turn more quickly depending on the level of the crime? The Catholic Church grades sin on the curve. God does not. Sin is sin.

Sin residue doesn't cling to you. You are washed clean, justified, and MADE RIGHTEOUS by the blood of Jesus Christ, and your work had nothing to do with it:

Romans 5:1-11 Therefore, since we have been made righteous through his faithfulness combined with our faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus ...

For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement ...

Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith

the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

The Blood the Blood the Blood. You aren't even mentioned...

Read this passage over and over and shout it out when you come to the part that tells you how much unrighteousness He forgive you of:
... he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Is God lying or is the Catholic Church?

respond to post #63

and then we can move on to something else...

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[The Irish Ram]

respond to post #63

and then we can move on to something else...

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Post #63 is me responding.

 

[rightnow909]

it doesn't make sense that some who haven't worked on their sins (with Jesus of course)

should go straight to Heaven along w/ those who have

 

[The Irish Ram]

Honey, because it is not about us. It is about the love God has for that beloved Son who was willing to go through what He did, so we wouldn't all end up in the Lake of Fire with the one who deceived us. He forgives us for Jesus' sake. If Jesus suffered and died so David could be forgiven, then you bet God's going to forgive David for whatever sins Jesus died for. When God sees us, He sees the perfect righteousness that we are robed in, provided by His Son.
Remember, He was there. He was the one that punished Christ for three hours and condemned Him to death. I love God, and Jesus, but when I envision my child, beaten beyond recognition, there's is just no way I could finish the job. I don't know know how Mary stood it. I grieve for her in that hour. But God and Christ loved us more than themselves and their own feelings. <<<THAT is that grace that is greater than sin. Even if sin abounds.
And if I was able to finish the punishment, and my little girl looked up at me and asked me to forgive them? How quickly would I forgive anything for her sake? ANYTHING.

On the flip side, Go sin on Sat. and confess on Sun, then repeat next week? No. That is taking advantage of what God's Son did for that person. Repentance is a heart issue, not a mouth issue. It means hating that sin and turning away from it. Repent, means to return to the highest level, where we belong.

Jesus only called God, God once. That was when He was covered in our sin, standing in for us. Jesus always called Him, Daddy (Abba). That same Daddy is going to wrap His arms around you, His baby girl, when you breath your last here, not punish you. Your future is very bright. Just as you are....

I am writting to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for His name's sake.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Some scholars have said this is in reference to Hell and it very well may be.. but it could about Purgatory OR both... I tend to think both... some say it is about Hell because we humans can NEVER pay back to God what we owe.

some focus on the word Until... he is handed over to the torturers UNTIL..... he pays back the debt

How long are 4 month olds that die tortured? What sin did they not work hard enough to cure?

The debt you think you still owe was paid in full by Jesus. He actually said "paid in full" while He was hanging on that cross once He was finished. The word He said was TETELESTAI. The same word stamped on the paperwork of those who owed a debt. Paid in full, finished, consummatum est.

 

[rightnow909]

That isn't just dogma, that is Catholic deceit. It makes God a liar. Because He said "ALL HAVE SINNED". If Mary was a human being. Mary had sin

Ok, following this line of ... uh... "reasoning"

Then even Jesus has to be included in that "all" who have sinned...

 

[rightnow909]

How long are 4 month olds that die tortured? What sin did they not work hard enough to cure?

what the heck are you talking about?

you've lost it

 

[The Irish Ram]

You never had it. The C Church decided that they would give babies a break and not send them to purgatory after all, not long ago. Before that you sent babies to purgatory so they could "work on getting to Heaven". It is a LIE. You are simply wrong.

And NO. There is only one who was without sin. You would know that if you had ever put down you Catechism book and picked up a Bible:

2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
^
There's a hundred verses that say that same thing. AND NEVER ONCE HAS THAT DISTINCTION BEEN BESTOWED UPON HIS MOTHER. That is a Catholic LIE.

You are more dangerous than the atheist. They don't pretend to be speaking on behalf of the Lord...

 

[rightnow909]

You never had it. The C Church decided that they would give babies a break and not send them to purgatory after all, not long ago. Before that you sent babies to purgatory so they could "work on getting to Heaven". It is a LIE. You are simply wrong.

And NO. There is only one who was without sin. You would know that if you had ever put down you Catechism book and picked up a Bible:

2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
^
There's a hundred verses that say that same thing. AND NEVER ONCE HAS THAT DISTINCTION BEEN BESTOWED UPON HIS MOTHER. That is a Catholic LIE.

You are more dangerous than the atheist. They don't pretend to be speaking on behalf of the Lord...

when you find out what the OLD Catholic Church teaches (first century to about 1950), then you can have a debate with someone like me who has not only studied it but lived it

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[The Irish Ram]

You don't have the scriptural wherewithal to debate me. All you can say is, "Well, we Catholics..."

You can't show me one scripture that says that Jesus and Mary were the only humans without sin. Mary said she was thankful for having a Savior. A sinless person doesn't need a savior, and doesn't get rebuked by her son for suggesting he preform miracles before it was the appropriate time.

You sin by leading people astray instead of relying on the Word to convict them. Work on that while you're packing for purgatory....

 

[Meriweather]

You never had it. The C Church decided that they would give babies a break and not send them to purgatory after all, not long ago. Before that you sent babies to purgatory so they could "work on getting to Heaven". It is a LIE. You are simply wrong.

Your statement is incorrect. It all began centuries ago when people of that day began asking the Church about unbaptized children, including babies. Recall, the Church always strives to each what Christ and the Apostles proclaimed. Jesus, nor the Apostles addressed unbaptized children and infants. Nor was it addressed anywhere in scripture.

The Church said it was in limbo over this because it had never been addressed. As years passed, people not only began thinking Limbo was a place--it got so mixed up that it was children (not the Church) who were in Limbo.

It was probably around Vatican II where the Church realized this misunderstanding had to be rectified. They said Limbo had never been an actual place. The wording was changed that the unbaptized are in the hands of a merciful and loving God.

The Church never assigned the unbaptized to Purgatory, because there was no mention of this by Christ, the Apostles, or scripture.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Your statement is incorrect. It all began centuries ago when people of that day began asking the Church about unbaptized children, including babies. Recall, the Church always strives to each what Christ and the Apostles proclaimed. Jesus, nor the Apostles addressed unbaptized children and infants. Nor was it addressed anywhere in scripture.

The Church said it was in limbo over this because it had never been addressed. As years passed, people not only began thinking Limbo was a place--it got so mixed up that it was children (not the Church) who were in Limbo.

It was probably around Vatican II where the Church realized this misunderstanding had to be rectified. They said Limbo had never been an actual place. The wording was changed that the unbaptized are in the hands of a merciful and loving God.

The Church never assigned the unbaptized to Purgatory, because there was no mention of this by Christ, the Apostles, or scripture.

Part of what you say is correct. Purgatory is not mentioned by Christ, the disciples or scripture. That should have been a clue to the early Catholic Church, but Saint Augustine made it up anyway and then told the congregation that all unbaptized babies go to hell, but that you could buy "indulgences" from the priests to shorten the stay.
None of that is Biblical. But it sure was profitable. The hapless people would throw money into a pool outside of the sanctuary, and the priests would use a type of rake to collect it out of the water. Hence the term, "raking in the dough".
Then they changed hell to Limo, then the Church removed purgatory from Catechism teachings about 20 years ago.

It would have been better not to have invented it in the first place since it was neither confirmed by Jesus, the disciples, or scripture, and was even the antithesis of what scripture says...

 

[rightnow909]

You don't have the scriptural wherewithal to debate me. All you can say is, "Well, we Catholics..."

You can't show me one scripture that says that Jesus and Mary were the only humans without sin. Mary said she was thankful for having a Savior. A sinless person doesn't need a savior, and doesn't get rebuked by her son for suggesting he preform miracles before it was the appropriate time.

You sin by leading people astray instead of relying on the Word to convict them. Work on that while you're packing for purgatory....

you have a lot of hate

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[The Irish Ram]

you have a lot of hate

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For false doctrine, while being very tolerant of you calling me names and taking shots at my character since you arrived. That's over.
Tired of your smugness without justification, your insults without provocation, and your attacks on my ability.
I don't go after people here. I have been in this forum for years. I condemn false dogma, not ever saying a disparaging word about the poster. Attacking people is your game. It may be why you have reaped a very unattractive nickname on this board.

You may want to refect on your own dirty porch before you start instructing me on how to sweep mine....

 

[rightnow909]

because it is not about us. It is about the love God has for that beloved Son

really?

your posts appear to be all about love of your own chosen doctrine... you don't seem to care what Christ's doctrines are... except that I suppose you sorta do bc you talk about him

but talk is cheap

You are required by Our Lord to seek and find, which He promised you would find if you seek...

seek t he Truth. I am too limited a person to answer all your questions. I would recommend talking to a SSPX priest...

They know true Catholicism...

SSPX is the True Church... the other one, the novus ordo (post Vatican II) is corrupt as hell (even though there IS good there, holiness there... alongside the... icky stuff.. [not just speaking of the pedophile issues but of the liberalism that led to that and other problems... ])