Science isn’t always the answer.

[RoccoR]

RE: Science isn’t always the answer.
⁜→ Mello711, Angelo, Newtonian, et al,

BLUF: All of these soundbites have an apparent truth tagging along with them.

I agree. The world would be much better without nukes. Not sure a lot of people here will agree though

War is a racket.
It's not like we were never warned and
could never have put an end to it eventually.

Sadly, science provides the weapons, and man uses them. We are from all nations and learn war no more as foretold in Isaiah 2:2-4 - the UN has this verse on its Isaiah wall, but the UN cannot accomplish this.

(COMMENT)

"Science isn’t always the answer" → is not a question; but rather, it is a statement of fact. Science is an infinite series of approximations in the never-ending quest to understand the universe. In fact, even the term "universe" is controversial; a paradox if you will. Traditionally, "[t]he Universe is the whole of existence → all of space, matter, energy, and time. The Universe is so vast that it seems unimaginable, but we do know that it has been steadily expanding following its beginning 13.8 billion years ago in an explosive event called the Big Bang." (SEE: Page Page 10 • Encyclopedia of Knowledge, First American Edition, 2013, the Smithsonian—)

As for "the whole of existence" → it is a set of all there is, both the tangible and intangible → natural and supernatural → that is, in itself, an infinite.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[barn sour]

You are using the bible as evidence for the bible that is circular reasoning. We have been made in God's image right? And God is perfect right? The Most Unfortunate Design Flaws in the Human Body We have some pretty obvious design flaws.

Being made in God's image has nothing to do with our physical body.
God is Spirit.

Being made in the image of God means we are thinking, rational beings with a conscience and free will. We aren't ruled by instinct as the animals are. Being made in the image of God is a thread all it's own.

You know I tend to be rather good natured in these kinds of discussions. I understand perfectly well that when speaking to religious people some leeway has to be given since by definition faith is accepting something without evidence.

This however kind of ticks me of. I'm allowing you to defend your position within your own framework, namely the bible. Yet you choose to make an assertion not just wholly unsupported by the Bible but actually in direct contradiction of it. Either mankind was created in gods image or he wasn't. His soul was but his body wasn't is simply bullshit.

You're "allowing" me to defend my position. Well, aren't you just the sweetest thing?

The Bible is clear. God is Spirit. He is INVISIBLE.

1 Timothy 1:17​

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

John 4:24​

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

John 1:18​

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Therefore, one must read the Bible with one's brain engaged. Being made in the image of God cannot mean men are invisible like God. Are you invisible or do you have a body of flesh? Men were created with a body of flesh. We have a spirit, but we are not Spirits. Spirits have no body of flesh.

God did not take on a body of flesh until He came to dwell among us as a man Jesus Christ.

Therefore, all your conjectures and "proofs" concerning our bodies of flesh have nothing to do with being created in the image of God. Think about it.

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

GENESIS 32:30 KJV And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

If you do some research, you'll see that seeing God face to face is speaking about an encounter with God. For instance when God appeared as a fire, Moses said the people had seen God face to face. God can appear in the form of a man or a pillar of fire or a pillar of cloud.

Deut. 5:4
The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

There are other examples. Some verses speak of the Arm of God. That doesn't mean He has an arm. It is merely personifying God's power.

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

The above has to be taken in the context of, "I have no way to resolve the contradiction so I'll just pretend there isn't one".

First, you left out something important.
Matt. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Jesus was pointing back to the law of retaliation which was the responsibility of the civil authorities to enact just punishments. Those punishments actually limited what a person could do as they sought revenge. It's like the civil law in our day. People cannot take the law into their own hand and kill someone and their entire family just because two guys got in a fight and one lost an eye (for instance).

Isaiah speaks of what Jesus does when He comes. He will MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 42:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

This is what Jesus does in Matt. 5. He is speaking, not as a civil authority, but to individuals. To those individuals who seek Him and follow Him. It's not a contradiction at all. It was exactly what Jesus came to do.

 

[barn sour]

Actually, you're the one that needs an excuse. You deny God. That is inexcusable.

Ah. So the majority of the planet that either believes in no gods of gods different from your gods are inexcusable?

That reads like an introduction to cult literature.

According to you, the Bible is a myth and God is a fairy tale. You, too, are without excuse. Evidence of our Creator is everywhere. You being a thinking creature with a, hopefully, functioning conscience should tell you that. But, instead, you're bent on spending your time trying feverishly to prove God doesn't exist. He's the one you'll need to answer to -- not me. I just call it like I see it.

 

[barn sour]

I will continue to believe God made Adam and Eve. Nothing in science contradicts that belief. And even somehow science proves man descended from an ape like creature, which has not provided compelling evidence for yet I will still believe that because those two things are NOT mutually exclusive to one another.

Even though we’ve explained in great detail why your belief is wrong? Luckily old dumb Americans like you die every day and are replaced with people who haven’t been brainwashed by ignorant parents who were brainwashed by ignorant parents

LOL my parents were not religious at all nor my Grandparents so much for your IGNORANCE.

So you don’t even have the excuse that your parents brainwashed you from early on? That makes you even more guilty of willful ignorance.

Actually, you're the one that needs an excuse. You deny God. That is inexcusable.

Ah. So the majority of the planet that either believes in no gods of gods different from your gods are inexcusable?

That reads like an introduction to cult literature.

Retard the majority of the planet believes in God.

Oh, well, that means what?

Perhaps you should go on a gee-had and convert those who don't believe in your gods.

My god doesn't require that. Perhaps you have heard of the New Testament? More people in this world believe in a higher being then don't and 70 percent of the USA does as well.

Perhaps you have heard of a herd mentality? Lots of people believe Islam corrected your corrupted religion. Lots of people believe it so it must be true.

Thanks, lots.

One leads to killing, maiming, and unhappiness.
The other leads to a peace that passes all understanding.

People aren't as stupid as you seem to think.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, you're the one that needs an excuse. You deny God. That is inexcusable.

Ah. So the majority of the planet that either believes in no gods of gods different from your gods are inexcusable?

That reads like an introduction to cult literature.

According to you, the Bible is a myth and God is a fairy tale. You, too, are without excuse. Evidence of our Creator is everywhere. You being a thinking creature with a, hopefully, functioning conscience should tell you that. But, instead, you're bent on spending your time trying feverishly to prove God doesn't exist. He's the one you'll need to answer to -- not me. I just call it like I see it.

Where is "everywhere", you claim exhibits evidence for your gods? I was hoping you could offer something more than "everywhere''. I see the natural world everywhere I look and see no indications of supernaturalism. My conscience tells me nothing of gods.

I will note however, that culturally, people's conscience tells them of the gods which are predominant in those respective cultures. A Hindu's conscience tells him /her of gods very different from your gods.

As to the existence of your gods, you may have missed it but I spend no time trying to disprove people's gods. I react to unfounded claims by religionists who insist their gods are extant and evidence for those gods is "everywhere".

I have no reason to accept I will have to answer to your gods. That kind of threat is rather pointless unless you are some self styled Mafioso-type enforcer on behalf of the gods.

 

[Hollie]

I will continue to believe God made Adam and Eve. Nothing in science contradicts that belief. And even somehow science proves man descended from an ape like creature, which has not provided compelling evidence for yet I will still believe that because those two things are NOT mutually exclusive to one another.

Even though we’ve explained in great detail why your belief is wrong? Luckily old dumb Americans like you die every day and are replaced with people who haven’t been brainwashed by ignorant parents who were brainwashed by ignorant parents

LOL my parents were not religious at all nor my Grandparents so much for your IGNORANCE.

So you don’t even have the excuse that your parents brainwashed you from early on? That makes you even more guilty of willful ignorance.

Actually, you're the one that needs an excuse. You deny God. That is inexcusable.

Ah. So the majority of the planet that either believes in no gods of gods different from your gods are inexcusable?

That reads like an introduction to cult literature.

Retard the majority of the planet believes in God.

Oh, well, that means what?

Perhaps you should go on a gee-had and convert those who don't believe in your gods.

My god doesn't require that. Perhaps you have heard of the New Testament? More people in this world believe in a higher being then don't and 70 percent of the USA does as well.

Perhaps you have heard of a herd mentality? Lots of people believe Islam corrected your corrupted religion. Lots of people believe it so it must be true.

Thanks, lots.

One leads to killing, maiming, and unhappiness.
The other leads to a peace that passes all understanding.

People aren't as stupid as you seem to think.

The history of your religion sure depicts a lot of killing, maiming, and unhappiness. Those folks persecuted, maimed, and killed in the most inventive of ways by your religious compatriots may disagree about ''the peace that passes all understanding'' meme.

 

[Hollie]

You are using the bible as evidence for the bible that is circular reasoning. We have been made in God's image right? And God is perfect right? The Most Unfortunate Design Flaws in the Human Body We have some pretty obvious design flaws.

Being made in God's image has nothing to do with our physical body.
God is Spirit.

Being made in the image of God means we are thinking, rational beings with a conscience and free will. We aren't ruled by instinct as the animals are. Being made in the image of God is a thread all it's own.

You know I tend to be rather good natured in these kinds of discussions. I understand perfectly well that when speaking to religious people some leeway has to be given since by definition faith is accepting something without evidence.

This however kind of ticks me of. I'm allowing you to defend your position within your own framework, namely the bible. Yet you choose to make an assertion not just wholly unsupported by the Bible but actually in direct contradiction of it. Either mankind was created in gods image or he wasn't. His soul was but his body wasn't is simply bullshit.

You're "allowing" me to defend my position. Well, aren't you just the sweetest thing?

The Bible is clear. God is Spirit. He is INVISIBLE.

1 Timothy 1:17​

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

John 4:24​

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

John 1:18​

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Therefore, one must read the Bible with one's brain engaged. Being made in the image of God cannot mean men are invisible like God. Are you invisible or do you have a body of flesh? Men were created with a body of flesh. We have a spirit, but we are not Spirits. Spirits have no body of flesh.

God did not take on a body of flesh until He came to dwell among us as a man Jesus Christ.

Therefore, all your conjectures and "proofs" concerning our bodies of flesh have nothing to do with being created in the image of God. Think about it.

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

GENESIS 32:30 KJV And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

If you do some research, you'll see that seeing God face to face is speaking about an encounter with God. For instance when God appeared as a fire, Moses said the people had seen God face to face. God can appear in the form of a man or a pillar of fire or a pillar of cloud.

Deut. 5:4
The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

There are other examples. Some verses speak of the Arm of God. That doesn't mean He has an arm. It is merely personifying God's power.

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

The above has to be taken in the context of, "I have no way to resolve the contradiction so I'll just pretend there isn't one".

First, you left out something important.
Matt. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Jesus was pointing back to the law of retaliation which was the responsibility of the civil authorities to enact just punishments. Those punishments actually limited what a person could do as they sought revenge. It's like the civil law in our day. People cannot take the law into their own hand and kill someone and their entire family just because two guys got in a fight and one lost an eye (for instance).

Isaiah speaks of what Jesus does when He comes. He will MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 42:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

This is what Jesus does in Matt. 5. He is speaking, not as a civil authority, but to individuals. To those individuals who seek Him and follow Him. It's not a contradiction at all. It was exactly what Jesus came to do.

I've noticed that most every apologist will claim to be the ultimate authority on what the gods want and will selectively interpret verses with a lot of "... because I say so'', admonitions.

The problem this resolves to is your interpretation will be contradicted by the next apologist in line. It's not just a little creepy to lecture others about Jeebus -The Return. Does that alleged return causing pain and suffering make you feel good?

 

[barn sour]

Actually, you're the one that needs an excuse. You deny God. That is inexcusable.

Ah. So the majority of the planet that either believes in no gods of gods different from your gods are inexcusable?

That reads like an introduction to cult literature.

According to you, the Bible is a myth and God is a fairy tale. You, too, are without excuse. Evidence of our Creator is everywhere. You being a thinking creature with a, hopefully, functioning conscience should tell you that. But, instead, you're bent on spending your time trying feverishly to prove God doesn't exist. He's the one you'll need to answer to -- not me. I just call it like I see it.

Where is "everywhere", you claim exhibits evidence for your gods? I was hoping you could offer something more than "everywhere''. I see the natural world everywhere I look and see no indications of supernaturalism. My conscience tells me nothing of gods.

You were hoping no such thing. You see evidence in the natural world, but have no answer to how it came into being. All your guesses can never explain the spark of life.

I will note however, that culturally, people's conscience tells them of the gods which are predominant in those respective cultures. A Hindu's conscience tells him /her of gods very different from your gods.

Nonsense. Right and wrong is ingrained in all humans everywhere.

As to the existence of your gods, you may have missed it but I spend no time trying to disprove people's gods. I react to unfounded claims by religionists who insist their gods are extant and evidence for those gods is "everywhere".

There is only one God, and you spend all your time trying to disprove it. I'm not sure who you think you're fooling.

I have no reason to accept I will have to answer to your gods. That kind of threat is rather pointless unless you are some self styled Mafioso-type enforcer on behalf of the gods.

You're correct. You have no reason to accept what I say or what God says. I'm simply giving you a heads-up as I'm called to do. I am nothing more than an ambassador for Christ sharing the free gift of salvation. It's a gift, but you're certainly free to reject it.

2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​

 

[barn sour]

I will continue to believe God made Adam and Eve. Nothing in science contradicts that belief. And even somehow science proves man descended from an ape like creature, which has not provided compelling evidence for yet I will still believe that because those two things are NOT mutually exclusive to one another.

Even though we’ve explained in great detail why your belief is wrong? Luckily old dumb Americans like you die every day and are replaced with people who haven’t been brainwashed by ignorant parents who were brainwashed by ignorant parents

LOL my parents were not religious at all nor my Grandparents so much for your IGNORANCE.

So you don’t even have the excuse that your parents brainwashed you from early on? That makes you even more guilty of willful ignorance.

Actually, you're the one that needs an excuse. You deny God. That is inexcusable.

Ah. So the majority of the planet that either believes in no gods of gods different from your gods are inexcusable?

That reads like an introduction to cult literature.

Retard the majority of the planet believes in God.

Oh, well, that means what?

Perhaps you should go on a gee-had and convert those who don't believe in your gods.

My god doesn't require that. Perhaps you have heard of the New Testament? More people in this world believe in a higher being then don't and 70 percent of the USA does as well.

Perhaps you have heard of a herd mentality? Lots of people believe Islam corrected your corrupted religion. Lots of people believe it so it must be true.

Thanks, lots.

One leads to killing, maiming, and unhappiness.
The other leads to a peace that passes all understanding.

People aren't as stupid as you seem to think.

The history of your religion sure depicts a lot of killing, maiming, and unhappiness. Those folks persecuted, maimed, and killed in the most inventive of ways by your religious compatriots may disagree about ''the peace that passes all understanding'' meme.

You're just naive and uneducated to blame mankind's failures and evil acts on Christians. Mainly because not all those who profess to be Christians are true believers. That has been the case from the beginning. That would be the same as my blaming you for every act committed against the black slaves or against the American indians. Pretty juvenile, actually.

 

[barn sour]

You are using the bible as evidence for the bible that is circular reasoning. We have been made in God's image right? And God is perfect right? The Most Unfortunate Design Flaws in the Human Body We have some pretty obvious design flaws.

Being made in God's image has nothing to do with our physical body.
God is Spirit.

Being made in the image of God means we are thinking, rational beings with a conscience and free will. We aren't ruled by instinct as the animals are. Being made in the image of God is a thread all it's own.

You know I tend to be rather good natured in these kinds of discussions. I understand perfectly well that when speaking to religious people some leeway has to be given since by definition faith is accepting something without evidence.

This however kind of ticks me of. I'm allowing you to defend your position within your own framework, namely the bible. Yet you choose to make an assertion not just wholly unsupported by the Bible but actually in direct contradiction of it. Either mankind was created in gods image or he wasn't. His soul was but his body wasn't is simply bullshit.

You're "allowing" me to defend my position. Well, aren't you just the sweetest thing?

The Bible is clear. God is Spirit. He is INVISIBLE.

1 Timothy 1:17​

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

John 4:24​

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

John 1:18​

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Therefore, one must read the Bible with one's brain engaged. Being made in the image of God cannot mean men are invisible like God. Are you invisible or do you have a body of flesh? Men were created with a body of flesh. We have a spirit, but we are not Spirits. Spirits have no body of flesh.

God did not take on a body of flesh until He came to dwell among us as a man Jesus Christ.

Therefore, all your conjectures and "proofs" concerning our bodies of flesh have nothing to do with being created in the image of God. Think about it.

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

GENESIS 32:30 KJV And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

If you do some research, you'll see that seeing God face to face is speaking about an encounter with God. For instance when God appeared as a fire, Moses said the people had seen God face to face. God can appear in the form of a man or a pillar of fire or a pillar of cloud.

Deut. 5:4
The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

There are other examples. Some verses speak of the Arm of God. That doesn't mean He has an arm. It is merely personifying God's power.

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

The above has to be taken in the context of, "I have no way to resolve the contradiction so I'll just pretend there isn't one".

First, you left out something important.
Matt. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Jesus was pointing back to the law of retaliation which was the responsibility of the civil authorities to enact just punishments. Those punishments actually limited what a person could do as they sought revenge. It's like the civil law in our day. People cannot take the law into their own hand and kill someone and their entire family just because two guys got in a fight and one lost an eye (for instance).

Isaiah speaks of what Jesus does when He comes. He will MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 42:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

This is what Jesus does in Matt. 5. He is speaking, not as a civil authority, but to individuals. To those individuals who seek Him and follow Him. It's not a contradiction at all. It was exactly what Jesus came to do.

I've noticed that most every apologist will claim to be the ultimate authority on what the gods want and will selectively interpret verses with a lot of "... because I say so'', admonitions.

The problem this resolves to is your interpretation will be contradicted by the next apologist in line. It's not just a little creepy to lecture others about Jeebus -The Return. Does that alleged return causing pain and suffering make you feel good?

You have no idea what you're talking about. I haven't once said "because I say so". I'm simply telling you what the Bible says. If that's too much for you, then maybe you should avoid the religion and ethics section entirely.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You are using the bible as evidence for the bible that is circular reasoning. We have been made in God's image right? And God is perfect right? The Most Unfortunate Design Flaws in the Human Body We have some pretty obvious design flaws.

Being made in God's image has nothing to do with our physical body.
God is Spirit.

Being made in the image of God means we are thinking, rational beings with a conscience and free will. We aren't ruled by instinct as the animals are. Being made in the image of God is a thread all it's own.

You know I tend to be rather good natured in these kinds of discussions. I understand perfectly well that when speaking to religious people some leeway has to be given since by definition faith is accepting something without evidence.

This however kind of ticks me of. I'm allowing you to defend your position within your own framework, namely the bible. Yet you choose to make an assertion not just wholly unsupported by the Bible but actually in direct contradiction of it. Either mankind was created in gods image or he wasn't. His soul was but his body wasn't is simply bullshit.

You're "allowing" me to defend my position. Well, aren't you just the sweetest thing?

The Bible is clear. God is Spirit. He is INVISIBLE.

1 Timothy 1:17​

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

John 4:24​

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

John 1:18​

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Therefore, one must read the Bible with one's brain engaged. Being made in the image of God cannot mean men are invisible like God. Are you invisible or do you have a body of flesh? Men were created with a body of flesh. We have a spirit, but we are not Spirits. Spirits have no body of flesh.

God did not take on a body of flesh until He came to dwell among us as a man Jesus Christ.

Therefore, all your conjectures and "proofs" concerning our bodies of flesh have nothing to do with being created in the image of God. Think about it.

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

GENESIS 32:30 KJV And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

If you do some research, you'll see that seeing God face to face is speaking about an encounter with God. For instance when God appeared as a fire, Moses said the people had seen God face to face. God can appear in the form of a man or a pillar of fire or a pillar of cloud.

Deut. 5:4
The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

There are other examples. Some verses speak of the Arm of God. That doesn't mean He has an arm. It is merely personifying God's power.

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

The above has to be taken in the context of, "I have no way to resolve the contradiction so I'll just pretend there isn't one".

First, you left out something important.
Matt. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Jesus was pointing back to the law of retaliation which was the responsibility of the civil authorities to enact just punishments. Those punishments actually limited what a person could do as they sought revenge. It's like the civil law in our day. People cannot take the law into their own hand and kill someone and their entire family just because two guys got in a fight and one lost an eye (for instance).

Isaiah speaks of what Jesus does when He comes. He will MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 42:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

This is what Jesus does in Matt. 5. He is speaking, not as a civil authority, but to individuals. To those individuals who seek Him and follow Him. It's not a contradiction at all. It was exactly what Jesus came to do.

I've noticed that most every apologist will claim to be the ultimate authority on what the gods want and will selectively interpret verses with a lot of "... because I say so'', admonitions.

The problem this resolves to is your interpretation will be contradicted by the next apologist in line. It's not just a little creepy to lecture others about Jeebus -The Return. Does that alleged return causing pain and suffering make you feel good?

You have no idea what you're talking about. I haven't once said "because I say so". I'm simply telling you what the Bible says. If that's too much for you, then maybe you should avoid the religion and ethics section entirely.

If "because the bible said so" doesn't impress people not in your cult, that's your problem, not theirs.

 

[barn sour]

You are using the bible as evidence for the bible that is circular reasoning. We have been made in God's image right? And God is perfect right? The Most Unfortunate Design Flaws in the Human Body We have some pretty obvious design flaws.

Being made in God's image has nothing to do with our physical body.
God is Spirit.

Being made in the image of God means we are thinking, rational beings with a conscience and free will. We aren't ruled by instinct as the animals are. Being made in the image of God is a thread all it's own.

You know I tend to be rather good natured in these kinds of discussions. I understand perfectly well that when speaking to religious people some leeway has to be given since by definition faith is accepting something without evidence.

This however kind of ticks me of. I'm allowing you to defend your position within your own framework, namely the bible. Yet you choose to make an assertion not just wholly unsupported by the Bible but actually in direct contradiction of it. Either mankind was created in gods image or he wasn't. His soul was but his body wasn't is simply bullshit.

You're "allowing" me to defend my position. Well, aren't you just the sweetest thing?

The Bible is clear. God is Spirit. He is INVISIBLE.

1 Timothy 1:17​

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

John 4:24​

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

John 1:18​

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Therefore, one must read the Bible with one's brain engaged. Being made in the image of God cannot mean men are invisible like God. Are you invisible or do you have a body of flesh? Men were created with a body of flesh. We have a spirit, but we are not Spirits. Spirits have no body of flesh.

God did not take on a body of flesh until He came to dwell among us as a man Jesus Christ.

Therefore, all your conjectures and "proofs" concerning our bodies of flesh have nothing to do with being created in the image of God. Think about it.

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

GENESIS 32:30 KJV And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

If you do some research, you'll see that seeing God face to face is speaking about an encounter with God. For instance when God appeared as a fire, Moses said the people had seen God face to face. God can appear in the form of a man or a pillar of fire or a pillar of cloud.

Deut. 5:4
The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

There are other examples. Some verses speak of the Arm of God. That doesn't mean He has an arm. It is merely personifying God's power.

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

The above has to be taken in the context of, "I have no way to resolve the contradiction so I'll just pretend there isn't one".

First, you left out something important.
Matt. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Jesus was pointing back to the law of retaliation which was the responsibility of the civil authorities to enact just punishments. Those punishments actually limited what a person could do as they sought revenge. It's like the civil law in our day. People cannot take the law into their own hand and kill someone and their entire family just because two guys got in a fight and one lost an eye (for instance).

Isaiah speaks of what Jesus does when He comes. He will MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 42:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

This is what Jesus does in Matt. 5. He is speaking, not as a civil authority, but to individuals. To those individuals who seek Him and follow Him. It's not a contradiction at all. It was exactly what Jesus came to do.

I've noticed that most every apologist will claim to be the ultimate authority on what the gods want and will selectively interpret verses with a lot of "... because I say so'', admonitions.

The problem this resolves to is your interpretation will be contradicted by the next apologist in line. It's not just a little creepy to lecture others about Jeebus -The Return. Does that alleged return causing pain and suffering make you feel good?

You have no idea what you're talking about. I haven't once said "because I say so". I'm simply telling you what the Bible says. If that's too much for you, then maybe you should avoid the religion and ethics section entirely.

If "because the bible said so" doesn't impress people not in your cult, that's your problem, not theirs.

I was simply correcting Hollie, because I've never said, "Because I say so."
Do you have a problem with that?

The Bible actually carries a lot of clout and has a lot of support.
Unlike me -- as I'm just a newbie.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Bible actually carries a lot of clout and has a lot of support.

Outside the cult? No. For example, evolution is an accepted fact, and your creation myth would get you laughed out of any educated company anywhere on the planet.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, you're the one that needs an excuse. You deny God. That is inexcusable.

Ah. So the majority of the planet that either believes in no gods of gods different from your gods are inexcusable?

That reads like an introduction to cult literature.

According to you, the Bible is a myth and God is a fairy tale. You, too, are without excuse. Evidence of our Creator is everywhere. You being a thinking creature with a, hopefully, functioning conscience should tell you that. But, instead, you're bent on spending your time trying feverishly to prove God doesn't exist. He's the one you'll need to answer to -- not me. I just call it like I see it.

Where is "everywhere", you claim exhibits evidence for your gods? I was hoping you could offer something more than "everywhere''. I see the natural world everywhere I look and see no indications of supernaturalism. My conscience tells me nothing of gods.

You were hoping no such thing. You see evidence in the natural world, but have no answer to how it came into being. All your guesses can never explain the spark of life.

I will note however, that culturally, people's conscience tells them of the gods which are predominant in those respective cultures. A Hindu's conscience tells him /her of gods very different from your gods.

Nonsense. Right and wrong is ingrained in all humans everywhere.

As to the existence of your gods, you may have missed it but I spend no time trying to disprove people's gods. I react to unfounded claims by religionists who insist their gods are extant and evidence for those gods is "everywhere".

There is only one God, and you spend all your time trying to disprove it. I'm not sure who you think you're fooling.

I have no reason to accept I will have to answer to your gods. That kind of threat is rather pointless unless you are some self styled Mafioso-type enforcer on behalf of the gods.

You're correct. You have no reason to accept what I say or what God says. I'm simply giving you a heads-up as I'm called to do. I am nothing more than an ambassador for Christ sharing the free gift of salvation. It's a gift, but you're certainly free to reject it.

2 Corinthians 5:20​

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​

I see evidence of the natural world in nature. That shouldn’t be a surprise as never, in all of human history has there ever been a verifiable supernatural event. And no, I don’t know for sure what ignited the first spark of biological life. Why would you propose magic and supernaturalism as the cause?


Right and wrong are certainly not ingrained in all humans everywhere. The very fact that different cultures have decidedly different standards for right and wrong should you you that.

Values and ethics aren't faith-derived. If you think otherwise, imagine this: Tomorrow, it is discovered for certain there is no god. Would such information suddenly cause you to steal from me?

If you answer no, then god isn't needed.

If you answer yes, then you are corrupt and immoral and that is your personality fracture, not morality's weakness.

I will also cite clear differences in moral precepts with morals as a measure of right and wrong. Egyptian royalty married brother to sister; i.e., engaged in incest by our standards, and functioned successfully for thousands of years. In today's culture, such liaisons are forbidden. Which is morally correct (especially considering that the Egyptians had many gods – most people only have a few.



As I noted earlier, I make no attempt to disprove gods. You tend to recoil in indignation that anyone would question your unsupported and decidedly weak claims to gods. You do realize that your claims to gods are the same types of claims that others make for their gods?

You are correct that I have no reason to accept what your gods say. As your gods have never said anything to anyone, that makes sense.

And yes, I understand that Christianity is a proselytizing religion. As a self-entitled ambassador for Christ, you should be aware that such heavy-handed prosyeltizing, when it becomes the “believe or else”, message is not helpful.

 

[Hollie]

I will continue to believe God made Adam and Eve. Nothing in science contradicts that belief. And even somehow science proves man descended from an ape like creature, which has not provided compelling evidence for yet I will still believe that because those two things are NOT mutually exclusive to one another.

Even though we’ve explained in great detail why your belief is wrong? Luckily old dumb Americans like you die every day and are replaced with people who haven’t been brainwashed by ignorant parents who were brainwashed by ignorant parents

LOL my parents were not religious at all nor my Grandparents so much for your IGNORANCE.

So you don’t even have the excuse that your parents brainwashed you from early on? That makes you even more guilty of willful ignorance.

Actually, you're the one that needs an excuse. You deny God. That is inexcusable.

Ah. So the majority of the planet that either believes in no gods of gods different from your gods are inexcusable?

That reads like an introduction to cult literature.

Retard the majority of the planet believes in God.

Oh, well, that means what?

Perhaps you should go on a gee-had and convert those who don't believe in your gods.

My god doesn't require that. Perhaps you have heard of the New Testament? More people in this world believe in a higher being then don't and 70 percent of the USA does as well.

Perhaps you have heard of a herd mentality? Lots of people believe Islam corrected your corrupted religion. Lots of people believe it so it must be true.

Thanks, lots.

One leads to killing, maiming, and unhappiness.
The other leads to a peace that passes all understanding.

People aren't as stupid as you seem to think.

The history of your religion sure depicts a lot of killing, maiming, and unhappiness. Those folks persecuted, maimed, and killed in the most inventive of ways by your religious compatriots may disagree about ''the peace that passes all understanding'' meme.

You're just naive and uneducated to blame mankind's failures and evil acts on Christians. Mainly because not all those who profess to be Christians are true believers. That has been the case from the beginning. That would be the same as my blaming you for every act committed against the black slaves or against the American indians. Pretty juvenile, actually.

I don’t hold mankind’s failures on acts of Christians, I hold Christians accountable for the failures of Christians. Aside from whatever chosen interpretation one wishes to take away from selected verses, we have only to look at the examples set by Christians in order to come to conclusions about Christianity. The fact is, the only external example of Christianity we have is Christians. If one is going to come to conclusions about such matters as forced conversions, enslavement of people, the revulsion of knowledge by the ruling class (the Dark Ages), the Christian world provides those examples.

You can be a good person without giving two hoots about Jesus, as billions of non-Christians prove every day. Christians think this world was nothing but barbarians before Jesus-- when in actuality true barbarism sprung up rampantly after Jesus and his devoted fanatics started hacking at anyone who slightly disagreed with them (even the atrocities of the old testament as recounted above pale in comparison to the holocausts, pogrom, wars and genocides that the teachings of Jesus has inspired). You think the Greeks burned old women because they were witches? The greatest library of all time-- the Library at Alexandria --was created by the Greek Ionians-- men who believed in Zeus. It took a Christian mob to destroy their works and literally set us back 2,000 years. For god. Who, according to the bible, hates knowledge so much he made it the one thing forbidden in Eden

 

[ding]

RE: Science isn’t always the answer.
⁜→ Mello711, Angelo, Newtonian, et al,

BLUF: All of these soundbites have an apparent truth tagging along with them.

I agree. The world would be much better without nukes. Not sure a lot of people here will agree though

War is a racket.
It's not like we were never warned and
could never have put an end to it eventually.

Sadly, science provides the weapons, and man uses them. We are from all nations and learn war no more as foretold in Isaiah 2:2-4 - the UN has this verse on its Isaiah wall, but the UN cannot accomplish this.

(COMMENT)

"Science isn’t always the answer" → is not a question; but rather, it is a statement of fact. Science is an infinite series of approximations in the never-ending quest to understand the universe. In fact, even the term "universe" is controversial; a paradox if you will. Traditionally, "[t]he Universe is the whole of existence → all of space, matter, energy, and time. The Universe is so vast that it seems unimaginable, but we do know that it has been steadily expanding following its beginning 13.8 billion years ago in an explosive event called the Big Bang." (SEE: Page Page 10 • Encyclopedia of Knowledge, First American Edition, 2013, the Smithsonian—)

As for "the whole of existence" → it is a set of all there is, both the tangible and intangible → natural and supernatural → that is, in itself, an infinite.

View attachment 341636
Most Respectfully,
R

How is it in itself an infinite exactly?

 

[barn sour]

The Bible actually carries a lot of clout and has a lot of support.

Outside the cult? No. For example, evolution is an accepted fact, and your creation myth would get you laughed out of any educated company anywhere on the planet.

Outside the cult of atheism, you non-Christians would be prayed for -- not laughed at.

That alone should tell you that your cult is out of touch with all those who know that God exists. You remain lost. sigh

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Outside the cult of atheism,

Oops, sorry, that doesn't exist.

Now you're being very childish.

And you are confusing yourself. What would get you laughed out of the room is your idiotic, iron aged dogma, not your belief in god. These are simple english sentences, and i expect you to do a better job of following them.

 

[barn sour]

I see evidence of the natural world in nature. That shouldn’t be a surprise as never, in all of human history has there ever been a verifiable supernatural event. And no, I don’t know for sure what ignited the first spark of biological life. Why would you propose magic and supernaturalism as the cause?

Of course you don't know what ignited the first spark of biological life. You don't even have a good guess.

I do know, and have been fully persuaded by the truth I've found in the Bible.

Right and wrong are certainly not ingrained in all humans everywhere. The very fact that different cultures have decidedly different standards for right and wrong should you you that.

No, you're speaking of learned standards. I'm speaking of the ingrained conscience God created in man.

Values and ethics aren't faith-derived. If you think otherwise, imagine this: Tomorrow, it is discovered for certain there is no god. Would such information suddenly cause you to steal from me?

Of course not, because I know full well that "discovery" would be fake news.

If you answer no, then god isn't needed.

Hate to break this to you, but God is needed. He created man to have a relationship with Him, and anyone who turns from Him will miss out on His free GIFT of eternal life.

If you answer yes, then you are corrupt and immoral and that is your personality fracture, not morality's weakness.

"Morality's weekness".....surely you jest. You have nothing to base your morality on. You have no standards.

I will also cite clear differences in moral precepts with morals as a measure of right and wrong. Egyptian royalty married brother to sister; i.e., engaged in incest by our standards, and functioned successfully for thousands of years. In today's culture, such liaisons are forbidden. Which is morally correct (especially considering that the Egyptians had many gods – most people only have a few.

You're pretty funny, you know that?

As I noted earlier, I make no attempt to disprove gods. You tend to recoil in indignation that anyone would question your unsupported and decidedly weak claims to gods. You do realize that your claims to gods are the same types of claims that others make for their gods?

You certainly fight hard in denial of your Creator. ONE God. Kicking against the goads is what that's called.

You are correct that I have no reason to accept what your gods say. As your gods have never said anything to anyone, that makes sense.

That only tells me you are ignoring God. And that's your right.

And yes, I understand that Christianity is a proselytizing religion. As a self-entitled ambassador for Christ, you should be aware that such heavy-handed prosyeltizing, when it becomes the “believe or else”, message is not helpful.

There is a difference between being "self-entitled", and doing what is right. I certainly understand that you haven't an inkling of anything spiritual. As far as I can see, nothing will be helpful to you until you are brought to your knees by circumstances beyond your control. God is certainly able to reach you -- in spite of yourself.

 

[barn sour]

Outside the cult of atheism,

Oops, sorry, that doesn't exist.

Now you're being very childish.

And you are confusing yourself. What would get you laughed out of the room is your idiotic, iron aged dogma, not your belief in god. These are simple english sentences, and i expect you to do a better job of following them.

Simple English sentences use a capital I when speaking of yourself.