School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

[Skull Pilot]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

It isn't.

Of course it is.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Terror attacks are even rarer and yet they seem to drive an awful lot of policy...the Patriot Act comes to mind....oh yeah and the Department of Homeland security too.

I also wouldn't call 17 incidents in which someone was injured or killed in span of 12 weeks "extremely rare".

Except, you know, Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Also, school shootings aren't even the main thing to address if people are interested in keeping kids safe.
Far more kids are killed outside of school with guns whether it's in gang violence, suicides resulting from bullying, or something else. The point the article makes is that focusing on school shootings when they are such a rare event (and yes, they are rare, as much as you like to think otherwise), is simply going to waste time and energy and may end up doing more harm than good.

Relative to other countries they happen quite regularly here... when was the last school shooting in the U.K.?

The UK has a much smaller population and gun control that simply isn't going to happen in America, so it's a bad comparison. If you think Americans are going to hand over their hand guns, than sure I guess we can compare them.

Ok add in France, Germany and Japan. When was their last school shooting?

Don't know
Don't care
Don't give a **** about France and Germany

 

[bendog]

It's just offensive to ask why a parent is more outraged by a child's death via sports or auto accident than a shooting. Car seats and restraints have been improved over years. Sports injuries are an issue for parents. Parents shouldn't be outraged because school shootings are not increasing? Well, that evidence is in dispute as to frequency, but even they, you PRESUME to tell a parent that he/she should not be increasingly angry over shootings? What steps are taken in schools for safety comparable to steps taken in autos and sports? Ten years ago kids' didn't wear helmets on bikes or in lacrosse.

The op owes Mustang an apology, imo.

I simply said it's disproportionate fear, which it is. Steps have been taken, you can't deny that schools are a lot safer than they were 2 decades ago. But there's a point where taking more steps can just make things worse. For example, do you want all teachers to be armed? Handguns bought back and banned? When does it end, do we want this fear driving us to enact those things? I don't owe anybody an apology, this is an internet forum, if people want to get offended that's there right.

Well yes, it is deniable that schools are more safe. The data is disputed.

And no the fear is not disportionate because it's arguable that school safety has been taken less seriously than car safety or even vaccine safety.

I will keep an open mind as to whether the motivations behind your OP were merely an unintentional and mistaken attempt to delegitimize legitimate parental concern, or whether it evidences something more intellectually dishonest.

 

[yiostheoy]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

The mass murder of children is the most depraved and heinous crime in the world.

It is also the cruelest betrayal of the population's responsibility to its children.

We have neglected to pay sufficient taxes to build schools which are safe for the children.

Schools need fences with locked gates, iron doors, metal detectors, and brave (not chickensh!t) armed security. Same as airports.

 

[Minstrel]

It's just offensive to ask why a parent is more outraged by a child's death via sports or auto accident than a shooting. Car seats and restraints have been improved over years. Sports injuries are an issue for parents. Parents shouldn't be outraged because school shootings are not increasing? Well, that evidence is in dispute as to frequency, but even they, you PRESUME to tell a parent that he/she should not be increasingly angry over shootings? What steps are taken in schools for safety comparable to steps taken in autos and sports? Ten years ago kids' didn't wear helmets on bikes or in lacrosse.

The op owes Mustang an apology, imo.

I simply said it's disproportionate fear, which it is. Steps have been taken, you can't deny that schools are a lot safer than they were 2 decades ago. But there's a point where taking more steps can just make things worse. For example, do you want all teachers to be armed? Handguns bought back and banned? When does it end, do we want this fear driving us to enact those things? I don't owe anybody an apology, this is an internet forum, if people want to get offended that's there right.

Well yes, it is deniable that schools are more safe. The data is disputed.

And no the fear is not disportionate because it's arguable that school safety has been taken less seriously than car safety or even vaccine safety.

I will keep an open mind as to whether the motivations behind your OP were merely an unintentional and mistaken attempt to delegitimize legitimate parental concern, or whether it evidences something more intellectually dishonest.

Do you really want to dispute that schools aren't more safe? The OP is simply pointing out that fear shouldn't be a driver of policy. You can disagree with that.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

It isn't.

Of course it is.

Nope. It isn't.

Normal people realize that kids are far less likely to be shot in school than in their own homes.

Most people are normal. They don't fear school shootings. They have had enough of them, though.

That's why we won't arm teachers or make schools into fortresses. Instead, we will regulate firearms.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

The mass murder of children is the most depraved and heinous crime in the world.

It is also the cruelest betrayal of the population's responsibility to its children.

We have neglected to pay sufficient taxes to build schools which are safe for the children.

Schools need fences with locked gates, iron doors, metal detectors, and brave (not chickensh!t) armed security. Same as airports.

Nope. They don't and we won't have them.

 

[Brain357]

Relative to other countries they happen quite regularly here... when was the last school shooting in the U.K.?

The UK has a much smaller population and gun control that simply isn't going to happen in America, so it's a bad comparison. If you think Americans are going to hand over their hand guns, than sure I guess we can compare them.

Ok add in France, Germany and Japan. When was their last school shooting?

All of which have very strict gun laws that have no realistic chance of passing in the United States where the right to bear arms is a right. You're wanting to make comparisons and assume that we can achieve the same results in the United States. It's just not going to happen.

So relative to other countries school shootings here happen a lot. That’s what I thought.

Yeah, I never said they didn't. The United States has a population of 320+ million, with a very different culture from the countries you've listed. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the country, and despite that, gun violence has been going down for decades. There is definitely progress to be made, such as dealing with gang violence, suicide prevention/etc.. but going all in on school shootings takes attention away from those very real problems. Honestly, I want to know, what do you propose be done to end school shootings that will actually have an impact? Expanding background checks isn't going to do anything, considering many of the recent mass shooters, if not all of them, passed background checks perfectly fine. So what do we do? Ban all handguns? Arm teachers?

Violent crime has increased 2 years in a row..

 

[Minstrel]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

The mass murder of children is the most depraved and heinous crime in the world.

It is also the cruelest betrayal of the population's responsibility to its children.

We have neglected to pay sufficient taxes to build schools which are safe for the children.

Schools need fences with locked gates, iron doors, metal detectors, and brave (not chickensh!t) armed security. Same as airports.

No one said it's not a terrible crime. So once we put locked gates, iron doors, metal detectors, and "brave" security in every school, what happens when the next school shooting occurs?

 

[Minstrel]

The UK has a much smaller population and gun control that simply isn't going to happen in America, so it's a bad comparison. If you think Americans are going to hand over their hand guns, than sure I guess we can compare them.

Ok add in France, Germany and Japan. When was their last school shooting?

All of which have very strict gun laws that have no realistic chance of passing in the United States where the right to bear arms is a right. You're wanting to make comparisons and assume that we can achieve the same results in the United States. It's just not going to happen.

So relative to other countries school shootings here happen a lot. That’s what I thought.

Yeah, I never said they didn't. The United States has a population of 320+ million, with a very different culture from the countries you've listed. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the country, and despite that, gun violence has been going down for decades. There is definitely progress to be made, such as dealing with gang violence, suicide prevention/etc.. but going all in on school shootings takes attention away from those very real problems. Honestly, I want to know, what do you propose be done to end school shootings that will actually have an impact? Expanding background checks isn't going to do anything, considering many of the recent mass shooters, if not all of them, passed background checks perfectly fine. So what do we do? Ban all handguns? Arm teachers?

Violent crime has increased 2 years in a row..

Wow, 2 years compared to decades. Are you talking about violent crime in general or gun related crimes?

 

[whitehall]

The Columbine kids were doped up on personality and behavior altering drugs by the system. The local police neglected to take out the shooters and instead waited outside the school for the shooting to stop. Everyone in Va. Tech Blacksburg knew the potential shooter was a maniac including the professors who wouldn't be in a room alone with him but nobody said anything. When female students complained about being stalked the local police did nothing. The potential shooter was finally ordered by the court to undergo psychiatric counseling but lefties and democrats had the system rigged so that his name did not show up on the instant check to purchase a firearm. Local police were interviewing witnesses to the first murder while the shooter was killing people across campus. The FBI claimed that they couldn't find the potential Florida shooter even though there were only six other people in the Country with the same name. The Deputy waited outside for the shooting to stop. More kids die in automobiles but nobody blames the AAA.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Cars serve a purpose other than killing.

 

[Brain357]

Ok add in France, Germany and Japan. When was their last school shooting?

All of which have very strict gun laws that have no realistic chance of passing in the United States where the right to bear arms is a right. You're wanting to make comparisons and assume that we can achieve the same results in the United States. It's just not going to happen.

So relative to other countries school shootings here happen a lot. That’s what I thought.

Yeah, I never said they didn't. The United States has a population of 320+ million, with a very different culture from the countries you've listed. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the country, and despite that, gun violence has been going down for decades. There is definitely progress to be made, such as dealing with gang violence, suicide prevention/etc.. but going all in on school shootings takes attention away from those very real problems. Honestly, I want to know, what do you propose be done to end school shootings that will actually have an impact? Expanding background checks isn't going to do anything, considering many of the recent mass shooters, if not all of them, passed background checks perfectly fine. So what do we do? Ban all handguns? Arm teachers?

Violent crime has increased 2 years in a row..

Wow, 2 years compared to decades. Are you talking about violent crime in general or gun related crimes?

Both I believe.

Crime started dropping about the time we got background checks and some gun control...

 

[Minstrel]

All of which have very strict gun laws that have no realistic chance of passing in the United States where the right to bear arms is a right. You're wanting to make comparisons and assume that we can achieve the same results in the United States. It's just not going to happen.

So relative to other countries school shootings here happen a lot. That’s what I thought.

Yeah, I never said they didn't. The United States has a population of 320+ million, with a very different culture from the countries you've listed. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the country, and despite that, gun violence has been going down for decades. There is definitely progress to be made, such as dealing with gang violence, suicide prevention/etc.. but going all in on school shootings takes attention away from those very real problems. Honestly, I want to know, what do you propose be done to end school shootings that will actually have an impact? Expanding background checks isn't going to do anything, considering many of the recent mass shooters, if not all of them, passed background checks perfectly fine. So what do we do? Ban all handguns? Arm teachers?

Violent crime has increased 2 years in a row..

Wow, 2 years compared to decades. Are you talking about violent crime in general or gun related crimes?

Both I believe.

Crime started dropping about the time we got background checks and some gun control...

Yeah, I'm a supporter of background checks, even though background checks haven't been effective at stopping mass shootings recently. It's a real problem.

 

[Brain357]

So relative to other countries school shootings here happen a lot. That’s what I thought.

Yeah, I never said they didn't. The United States has a population of 320+ million, with a very different culture from the countries you've listed. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the country, and despite that, gun violence has been going down for decades. There is definitely progress to be made, such as dealing with gang violence, suicide prevention/etc.. but going all in on school shootings takes attention away from those very real problems. Honestly, I want to know, what do you propose be done to end school shootings that will actually have an impact? Expanding background checks isn't going to do anything, considering many of the recent mass shooters, if not all of them, passed background checks perfectly fine. So what do we do? Ban all handguns? Arm teachers?

Violent crime has increased 2 years in a row..

Wow, 2 years compared to decades. Are you talking about violent crime in general or gun related crimes?

Both I believe.

Crime started dropping about the time we got background checks and some gun control...

Yeah, I'm a supporter of background checks, even though background checks haven't been effective at stopping mass shootings recently. It's a real problem.

It is sad that it might have stopped the tx church shooting.

But banning high capacity magazines would have also helped.

 

[Minstrel]

Yeah, I never said they didn't. The United States has a population of 320+ million, with a very different culture from the countries you've listed. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the country, and despite that, gun violence has been going down for decades. There is definitely progress to be made, such as dealing with gang violence, suicide prevention/etc.. but going all in on school shootings takes attention away from those very real problems. Honestly, I want to know, what do you propose be done to end school shootings that will actually have an impact? Expanding background checks isn't going to do anything, considering many of the recent mass shooters, if not all of them, passed background checks perfectly fine. So what do we do? Ban all handguns? Arm teachers?

Violent crime has increased 2 years in a row..

Wow, 2 years compared to decades. Are you talking about violent crime in general or gun related crimes?

Both I believe.

Crime started dropping about the time we got background checks and some gun control...

Yeah, I'm a supporter of background checks, even though background checks haven't been effective at stopping mass shootings recently. It's a real problem.

It is sad that it might have stopped the tx church shooting.

But banning high capacity magazines would have also helped.

He would have just carried out the shooting with a pistol or acquired high capacity mags in some other way. Difference between America and other countries that have lower gun violence is that guns are everywhere and not very difficult to acquire, legally or illegally.

 

[Brain357]

Violent crime has increased 2 years in a row..

Wow, 2 years compared to decades. Are you talking about violent crime in general or gun related crimes?

Both I believe.

Crime started dropping about the time we got background checks and some gun control...

Yeah, I'm a supporter of background checks, even though background checks haven't been effective at stopping mass shootings recently. It's a real problem.

It is sad that it might have stopped the tx church shooting.

But banning high capacity magazines would have also helped.

He would have just carried out the shooting with a pistol or acquired high capacity mags in some other way. Difference between America and other countries that have lower gun violence is that guns are everywhere and not very difficult to acquire, legally or illegally.

People get caught trying to acquire illegal things.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Violent crime has increased 2 years in a row..

Wow, 2 years compared to decades. Are you talking about violent crime in general or gun related crimes?

Both I believe.

Crime started dropping about the time we got background checks and some gun control...

Yeah, I'm a supporter of background checks, even though background checks haven't been effective at stopping mass shootings recently. It's a real problem.

It is sad that it might have stopped the tx church shooting.

But banning high capacity magazines would have also helped.

He would have just carried out the shooting with a pistol or acquired high capacity mags in some other way. Difference between America and other countries that have lower gun violence is that guns are everywhere and not very difficult to acquire, legally or illegally.

That is "a" difference. A significant one that can be dealt with via the legislative process. And....it will be.

 

[Minstrel]

Wow, 2 years compared to decades. Are you talking about violent crime in general or gun related crimes?

Both I believe.

Crime started dropping about the time we got background checks and some gun control...

Yeah, I'm a supporter of background checks, even though background checks haven't been effective at stopping mass shootings recently. It's a real problem.

It is sad that it might have stopped the tx church shooting.

But banning high capacity magazines would have also helped.

He would have just carried out the shooting with a pistol or acquired high capacity mags in some other way. Difference between America and other countries that have lower gun violence is that guns are everywhere and not very difficult to acquire, legally or illegally.

People get caught trying to acquire illegal things.

Sometimes they don't. Didn't the sandy hook shooter just kill his mom and take the guns in the house?

 

[Minstrel]

Wow, 2 years compared to decades. Are you talking about violent crime in general or gun related crimes?

Both I believe.

Crime started dropping about the time we got background checks and some gun control...

Yeah, I'm a supporter of background checks, even though background checks haven't been effective at stopping mass shootings recently. It's a real problem.

It is sad that it might have stopped the tx church shooting.

But banning high capacity magazines would have also helped.

He would have just carried out the shooting with a pistol or acquired high capacity mags in some other way. Difference between America and other countries that have lower gun violence is that guns are everywhere and not very difficult to acquire, legally or illegally.

That is "a" difference. A significant one that can be dealt with via the legislative process. And....it will be.

Good luck.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Cars serve a purpose other than killing.

So do guns. Namely, preventing killing.