School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

[Minstrel]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Parents generally don't like sending their kids off to school and having to think that they might not come back.

Rare? What is rare?

They're rare in the UK, they haven't had one since 1996. The US has had many this year alone.

There's a higher chance of a kid being killed playing a contact sport or on their commute to and from school. You've got to take population into account when talking about things like this, along with culture and the fact that guns are EVERYWHERE in America, and nothing will change that. Overall, gun violence is down across the board, and schools are a lot safer than in the 90's. You mentioning parents being afraid of their kids being shot simply supports my OP. Fear is driving that decision when the data says otherwise. School shootings get media attention for weeks and stir up fear and panic when there is no reason for it. Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say

 

[Minstrel]

Because they are extraordinarily deadly

Most people are appauled at the slaughter of children

More children die from playing interscholastic sports, on their commute to or from school, or from catching an illness from their school. Schools are MUCH safer than in the 90's. You're simply proving my OP by saying people are appalled. Who isn't? It's normal to be sad and angry when any child is killed, especially in a mass shooting due to the nature of the event, but we shouldn't let this emotion drive policy when school shootings are, in reality, not some epidemic. Some would argue that letting this fear drive policy might actually put our kids in greater peril, such as myself. I know I seem heartless bringing up statistics with how the sheer evil of a school shooting makes us feel. It's always been the case that people care more about the way they or others they love die, more than the probability of them actually dying. For example, how many people are scared of going into the ocean because of a fear of getting eaten by sharks? Airplanes? Should we let that fear drive policy?

 

[Minstrel]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Terror attacks are even rarer and yet they seem to drive an awful lot of policy...the Patriot Act comes to mind....oh yeah and the Department of Homeland security too.

I also wouldn't call 17 incidents in which someone was injured or killed in span of 12 weeks "extremely rare".

Except, you know, Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Also, school shootings aren't even the main thing to address if people are interested in keeping kids safe.
Far more kids are killed outside of school with guns whether it's in gang violence, suicides resulting from bullying, or something else. The point the article makes is that focusing on school shootings when they are such a rare event (and yes, they are rare, as much as you like to think otherwise), is simply going to waste time and energy and may end up doing more harm than good.

 

[Minstrel]

They are counting intentional shootings of four or more, just as other countries do.
The other list also includes 3 accidental gun discharges with no injuries, one on a college campus, and 3 shootings on college campuses, which included a shooting at a party/wedding rental facility located on a campus. They also included a suicide in a school parking lot by a 31 yr old at a school that had been permanently closed seven months prior. They included a shooting between adults that had been fighting, in a school parking lot after hours. Also included was a suicide in a bathroom. Another included is an after hours robbery gone bad in a school parking lot. A school administrative office was hit by a stray bullet through a window, which the shooter was never located, and no one injured.
And last, a drive by that hit no one.

Two of the shootings, the kids had been kicked out of schooldue to problems, yet later allowed to return. Another in which he even had a hit list that had been reported.

Rare? What is rare?

They're rare in the UK, they haven't had one since 1996. The US has had many this year alone.

School shootings have been declining for two decades. Children are about 100 times more likely to die from drowning in a swimming pool. But the hype has been astronomical. The news loves it, it's good for ratings.

But there's a big difference between accidents and deliberate shootings.

Comparing the two is a little dishonest.

Do you have statistics to show school shooting have been declining for 2 decades?

Study: School Shootings Are Actually Rare and Declining

I've found a webpage that makes the same case as you do. Is it true?

It says there have been 4 school shootings this year. Well, that's a lot in only 3 months.

However is it 4 or are they just making up numbers?

Great Mills, Maryland. 2 dead. 17 year old student kills two people in this school.

Huffman High School, Birmingham, Alabama. 1 dead.
A school shooting? Well, no one is being charged with murder. A gun was taken to school, metal detectors were not being used that day, and a student was killed "accidentally." You could argue both ways. The reality is that kids aren't safe at schools and a student died as a result of guns.

Parkland Florida. 17 dead.

Oxon Hill High School, Maryland. No dead. Someone tried to rob someone else in a school parking lot. The shooting happened in a school, no one died.

So I'd guess this website would say it's not a school shooting, even though it was a shooting and it was at school. It wasn't a shooting in the same way as Parkland was. It wasn't a mass killing, but it was a shooting.

Sal Castro Middle School, zero dead. Two students were shot and injured in their classroom. A shooting in a school.

Marshall Country High School, two dead. Shot in the lobby of the school.

NET Charter High School, New Orleans. Zero killed. Shots were fired at students in the parking lot.

Italy High School, Texas, Zero dead. Shots fired but no one killed inside the school cafeteria.

So I've got eight there. How do they get it down to four? Ah, a school shooting is only a school shooting when A) students die and B) the aim of the shooter was to kill lots of random students.

That's rubbish. They're passing off school shootings as not school shootings because it's inconvenient for their message.

Give me a break.

So, their evidence that school shootings have been declining. I don't trust a single thing they say about school shootings, to be honest.

But just because you can talk them away, doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Eight shootings this year. Accidental discharges in school?

I'm sorry, but sending your kids to school where they might get killed by accidental discharges doesn't exactly warm the hearts of parents.

Oh, more than three need to die before anyone gives a ****? Are you kidding me?

You're playing politics, nothing more and nothing less. Redefining what something means to fit your twisted agenda.

Kids are getting killed in schools. Do you not have a problem with this?

Oh, not enough kids died in school, so who cares? That's what the US has come to, it's SICK.

Disproportionate fear. If parents are afraid of their kids dying they should be afraid of things that have a much higher chance of killing them, such as catching a sickness, dying on the commute to and from school, or dying as a result of contact sports. I'm curious, what is your proposed solution to address the school shooting issue. In my opinion, there simply isn't much that can be done, if we're being realistic. I'd love to see your proposed solutions, because gun violence, including school shootings, have been declining since the 90's. Schools are much safer, that's simply a fact. I recommend reading the article, the author does a great job at explaining the psychology behind all of this.

 

[bendog]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

There is some dispute as to the evidence.

F.B.I. Confirms a Sharp Rise in Mass Shootings Since 2000

But even so, why should it surprise you that a parent would find it more shocking, and unacceptable, for a child to be shot and killed at school - or at a movie theatre - than to die in an auto or sports accident. Mass shootings are increasing, whether or not you choose to accept the fact. And most parents would like to see the trend reversed. Whether it can be, and how, are questionable, imo.

 

[Minstrel]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

There is some dispute as to the evidence.

F.B.I. Confirms a Sharp Rise in Mass Shootings Since 2000

But even so, why should it surprise you that a parent would find it more shocking, and unacceptable, for a child to be shot and killed at school than to die in an auto or sports accident. Mass shootings are increasing, whether or not you choose to accept the fact. And most parents would like to see the trend reversed. Whether it can be, and how, are questionable, imo.

That article talks about mass shootings in general, not school shootings on their own. I never said it surprised me either, it's just psychology.

 

[Mustang]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Are you really that stupid? It's because kids are being murdered, and families are being destroyed.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Are you really that stupid? It's because kids are being murdered, and families are being destroyed.

Wow.

Exhibit A in favor of the OP.

 

[boedicca]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Of course it shouldn't. But the Proglodyte MO is to never let a crisis go to waste.

 

[bendog]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

There is some dispute as to the evidence.

F.B.I. Confirms a Sharp Rise in Mass Shootings Since 2000

But even so, why should it surprise you that a parent would find it more shocking, and unacceptable, for a child to be shot and killed at school than to die in an auto or sports accident. Mass shootings are increasing, whether or not you choose to accept the fact. And most parents would like to see the trend reversed. Whether it can be, and how, are questionable, imo.

That article talks about mass shootings in general, not school shootings on their own. I never said it surprised me either, it's just psychology.

The data on school shootings is in dispute.

Florida shooting: What's driving the increase in deadly school shootings?

And even then, imo, your OP is more a distraction, perhaps not intentionally.

You ask why parents should be more upset over a school shooting than another death. That's moronic. See my previous post.

 

[Minstrel]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Are you really that stupid? It's because kids are being murdered, and families are being destroyed.

Maybe you should read the article. Simply calling me stupid and saying "kids are being murdered..." is a weak argument appealing to emotion, which is exactly the problem the article points out.

 

[BluesLegend]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Are you really that stupid? It's because kids are being murdered, and families are being destroyed.

This happens everyday in Chicago and Baltimore, where was the outrage?

 

[Brain357]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Terror attacks are even rarer and yet they seem to drive an awful lot of policy...the Patriot Act comes to mind....oh yeah and the Department of Homeland security too.

I also wouldn't call 17 incidents in which someone was injured or killed in span of 12 weeks "extremely rare".

Except, you know, Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Also, school shootings aren't even the main thing to address if people are interested in keeping kids safe.
Far more kids are killed outside of school with guns whether it's in gang violence, suicides resulting from bullying, or something else. The point the article makes is that focusing on school shootings when they are such a rare event (and yes, they are rare, as much as you like to think otherwise), is simply going to waste time and energy and may end up doing more harm than good.

Relative to other countries they happen quite regularly here... when was the last school shooting in the U.K.?

 

[Minstrel]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Terror attacks are even rarer and yet they seem to drive an awful lot of policy...the Patriot Act comes to mind....oh yeah and the Department of Homeland security too.

I also wouldn't call 17 incidents in which someone was injured or killed in span of 12 weeks "extremely rare".

Except, you know, Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Also, school shootings aren't even the main thing to address if people are interested in keeping kids safe.
Far more kids are killed outside of school with guns whether it's in gang violence, suicides resulting from bullying, or something else. The point the article makes is that focusing on school shootings when they are such a rare event (and yes, they are rare, as much as you like to think otherwise), is simply going to waste time and energy and may end up doing more harm than good.

Relative to other countries they happen quite regularly here... when was the last school shooting in the U.K.?

The UK has a much smaller population and gun control that simply isn't going to happen in America, so it's a bad comparison. If you think Americans are going to hand over their hand guns, than sure I guess we can compare them.

 

[Brain357]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Terror attacks are even rarer and yet they seem to drive an awful lot of policy...the Patriot Act comes to mind....oh yeah and the Department of Homeland security too.

I also wouldn't call 17 incidents in which someone was injured or killed in span of 12 weeks "extremely rare".

Except, you know, Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Also, school shootings aren't even the main thing to address if people are interested in keeping kids safe.
Far more kids are killed outside of school with guns whether it's in gang violence, suicides resulting from bullying, or something else. The point the article makes is that focusing on school shootings when they are such a rare event (and yes, they are rare, as much as you like to think otherwise), is simply going to waste time and energy and may end up doing more harm than good.

Relative to other countries they happen quite regularly here... when was the last school shooting in the U.K.?

The UK has a much smaller population and gun control that simply isn't going to happen in America, so it's a bad comparison. If you think Americans are going to hand over their hand guns, than sure I guess we can compare them.

Ok add in France, Germany and Japan. When was their last school shooting?

 

[Minstrel]

Perspective | School shootings are extraordinarily rare. Why is fear of them driving policy?

Fear of school shootings shouldn't be driving policy.

Terror attacks are even rarer and yet they seem to drive an awful lot of policy...the Patriot Act comes to mind....oh yeah and the Department of Homeland security too.

I also wouldn't call 17 incidents in which someone was injured or killed in span of 12 weeks "extremely rare".

Except, you know, Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Also, school shootings aren't even the main thing to address if people are interested in keeping kids safe.
Far more kids are killed outside of school with guns whether it's in gang violence, suicides resulting from bullying, or something else. The point the article makes is that focusing on school shootings when they are such a rare event (and yes, they are rare, as much as you like to think otherwise), is simply going to waste time and energy and may end up doing more harm than good.

Relative to other countries they happen quite regularly here... when was the last school shooting in the U.K.?

The UK has a much smaller population and gun control that simply isn't going to happen in America, so it's a bad comparison. If you think Americans are going to hand over their hand guns, than sure I guess we can compare them.

Ok add in France, Germany and Japan. When was their last school shooting?

All of which have very strict gun laws that have no realistic chance of passing in the United States where the right to bear arms is a right. You're wanting to make comparisons and assume that we can achieve the same results in the United States. It's just not going to happen.

 

[bendog]

It's just offensive to ask why a parent is more outraged by a child's death via sports or auto accident than a shooting. Car seats and restraints have been improved over years. Sports injuries are an issue for parents. Parents shouldn't be outraged because school shootings are not increasing? Well, that evidence is in dispute as to frequency, but even they, you PRESUME to tell a parent that he/she should not be increasingly angry over shootings? What steps are taken in schools for safety comparable to steps taken in autos and sports? Ten years ago kids' didn't wear helmets on bikes or in lacrosse.

The op owes Mustang an apology, imo.

 

[Brain357]

Terror attacks are even rarer and yet they seem to drive an awful lot of policy...the Patriot Act comes to mind....oh yeah and the Department of Homeland security too.

I also wouldn't call 17 incidents in which someone was injured or killed in span of 12 weeks "extremely rare".

Except, you know, Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Also, school shootings aren't even the main thing to address if people are interested in keeping kids safe.
Far more kids are killed outside of school with guns whether it's in gang violence, suicides resulting from bullying, or something else. The point the article makes is that focusing on school shootings when they are such a rare event (and yes, they are rare, as much as you like to think otherwise), is simply going to waste time and energy and may end up doing more harm than good.

Relative to other countries they happen quite regularly here... when was the last school shooting in the U.K.?

The UK has a much smaller population and gun control that simply isn't going to happen in America, so it's a bad comparison. If you think Americans are going to hand over their hand guns, than sure I guess we can compare them.

Ok add in France, Germany and Japan. When was their last school shooting?

All of which have very strict gun laws that have no realistic chance of passing in the United States where the right to bear arms is a right. You're wanting to make comparisons and assume that we can achieve the same results in the United States. It's just not going to happen.

So relative to other countries school shootings here happen a lot. That’s what I thought.

 

[Minstrel]

It's just offensive to ask why a parent is more outraged by a child's death via sports or auto accident than a shooting. Car seats and restraints have been improved over years. Sports injuries are an issue for parents. Parents shouldn't be outraged because school shootings are not increasing? Well, that evidence is in dispute as to frequency, but even they, you PRESUME to tell a parent that he/she should not be increasingly angry over shootings? What steps are taken in schools for safety comparable to steps taken in autos and sports? Ten years ago kids' didn't wear helmets on bikes or in lacrosse.

The op owes Mustang an apology, imo.

I simply said it's disproportionate fear, which it is. Steps have been taken, you can't deny that schools are a lot safer than they were 2 decades ago. But there's a point where taking more steps can just make things worse. For example, do you want all teachers to be armed? Handguns bought back and banned? When does it end, do we want this fear driving us to enact those things? I don't owe anybody an apology, this is an internet forum, if people want to get offended that's there right.

 

[Minstrel]

Except, you know, Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Also, school shootings aren't even the main thing to address if people are interested in keeping kids safe.
Far more kids are killed outside of school with guns whether it's in gang violence, suicides resulting from bullying, or something else. The point the article makes is that focusing on school shootings when they are such a rare event (and yes, they are rare, as much as you like to think otherwise), is simply going to waste time and energy and may end up doing more harm than good.

Relative to other countries they happen quite regularly here... when was the last school shooting in the U.K.?

The UK has a much smaller population and gun control that simply isn't going to happen in America, so it's a bad comparison. If you think Americans are going to hand over their hand guns, than sure I guess we can compare them.

Ok add in France, Germany and Japan. When was their last school shooting?

All of which have very strict gun laws that have no realistic chance of passing in the United States where the right to bear arms is a right. You're wanting to make comparisons and assume that we can achieve the same results in the United States. It's just not going to happen.

So relative to other countries school shootings here happen a lot. That’s what I thought.

Yeah, I never said they didn't. The United States has a population of 320+ million, with a very different culture from the countries you've listed. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the country, and despite that, gun violence has been going down for decades. There is definitely progress to be made, such as dealing with gang violence, suicide prevention/etc.. but going all in on school shootings takes attention away from those very real problems. Honestly, I want to know, what do you propose be done to end school shootings that will actually have an impact? Expanding background checks isn't going to do anything, considering many of the recent mass shooters, if not all of them, passed background checks perfectly fine. So what do we do? Ban all handguns? Arm teachers?