San Fransico Raises Min-wage to $15. Results in THIS:

[Brain357]

So you want small business to pay very little and then have workers on welfare? That increases government dependence.

Why do you Leftwats think there's a link between employment and welfare? If the socialist government increases eligibility for food stamps so that 60 million can get it regardless of employment, how the hell is that the fault of businesses?

Stop lying, Leftists!

When employers stop taking care of employees politicians are elected who will have government fill that void, government grows. When employers pay well and have good benefits there is no need for welfare, government shrinks.

Welfare and food stamps were never meant for people who work.

I know, but this is what happens when employers pay too little. We vote in this country. Fair or not people will be taken care of either by employer or government. If you want small government, then employers need to pay up.

Nonsense! The sufficiency of employer wages is not determined by who gets welfare. Employers pay based on how much money is in the industry and how much people will pay for their product or service.

You deluded Leftists think you can name a salary and the money for it just magically appears. It's because you people are like large children that you have no idea how market forces work. I can flip burgers like any fast food worker, but how many of them can drive a big rig like me? How many are willing to endure many nights away from home?

People who want to be paid more need to work harder and gain skills that pay better. Crying like the little selfish brats you are because Burger King won't pay you more is just idiotic.

That isn't reality. Reality is if employers don't pay enough, then government will take care of them. Have you noticed our government grows with inequality?

 

[RodISHI]

Once no one can afford the games they will either have to raise salaries or quit playing.

Who is John Galt?

No clue who is it? I should have worded that differently have not had TV for near twenty years.

LOL!

Hysterical.

You think someone who actually lives in a real world verses someone who watches TV to try to understand what real living is hysterical? We did not have one when the children grew up either. But hey my daughter was top of her class throughout high school and graduated with honors. She could run a company with forty plus employees when she was nineteen could you? Our son could run every type of construction equipment you can shake a stick at by the time he was eighteen and build a house; including do all the concrete and finishing to start that building on, could you do that at eighteen? I doubt it.

Yes...I bet you are proud....So your kids decided at a very young age to become achievers....This illustrates the point being made to you. That those who strive for something better can and often DO earn much higher wages.
I fail to see a problem here.

You would and I have no intention on debating you or mr. ignorance himself about how the country has become so corrupt children of today will not or do not have that same opportunity. Mine happened to get under the wire do to the heritage that they were blessed with.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Why do you Leftwats think there's a link between employment and welfare? If the socialist government increases eligibility for food stamps so that 60 million can get it regardless of employment, how the hell is that the fault of businesses?

Stop lying, Leftists!

When employers stop taking care of employees politicians are elected who will have government fill that void, government grows. When employers pay well and have good benefits there is no need for welfare, government shrinks.

Welfare and food stamps were never meant for people who work.

I know, but this is what happens when employers pay too little. We vote in this country. Fair or not people will be taken care of either by employer or government. If you want small government, then employers need to pay up.

Nonsense! The sufficiency of employer wages is not determined by who gets welfare. Employers pay based on how much money is in the industry and how much people will pay for their product or service.

You deluded Leftists think you can name a salary and the money for it just magically appears. It's because you people are like large children that you have no idea how market forces work. I can flip burgers like any fast food worker, but how many of them can drive a big rig like me? How many are willing to endure many nights away from home?

People who want to be paid more need to work harder and gain skills that pay better. Crying like the little selfish brats you are because Burger King won't pay you more is just idiotic.

That isn't reality. Reality is if employers don't pay enough, then government will take care of them. Have you noticed our government grows with inequality?

Wrong. What I posted about market forces IS reality.

 

[Brain357]

So you want small business to pay very little and then have workers on welfare? That increases government dependence.

Why do you Leftwats think there's a link between employment and welfare? If the socialist government increases eligibility for food stamps so that 60 million can get it regardless of employment, how the hell is that the fault of businesses?

Stop lying, Leftists!

When employers stop taking care of employees politicians are elected who will have government fill that void, government grows. When employers pay well and have good benefits there is no need for welfare, government shrinks.

Welfare and food stamps were never meant for people who work.

I know, but this is what happens when employers pay too little. We vote in this country. Fair or not people will be taken care of either by employer or government. If you want small government, then employers need to pay up.

It is not that simple. The marketplace must be left to determine prices and wages.
Look, economic forces react to themselves.
When wages rise, prices rise.
When the marketplace can absorb the increases, we have a healthy economy with low rates of inflation. Cost of living remains relatively stable.
Enter this $15 per hour movement.....This thing affects the smallest and most vulnerable businesses. Those stores with the Golden Arches and such, are not owned by the corporation. They are owned by individuals who have sunk a significant amount of their life savings into the business at a very high risk.

I am aware of those things. It doesn't change the reality that if employers don't pay enough that government will fill that void.

Min wage increases aren't the best but they beat other welfare. Money goes straight from employer to employee. Welfare goes through government to get to employee.

Wages are stagnant for everyone but the rich. The top should probably stop being so greedy.

 

[Political Junky]

The average cost of a one bedroom apartment in San Francisco is $3,530. I saw this on TV last night.

That's strange since the poverty level in San Francisco is 13%. Poverty rates near record levels in Bay Area despite hot economy

SF has one of the largest gaps between rich and poor. Lots of homeless.

 

[Brain357]

When employers stop taking care of employees politicians are elected who will have government fill that void, government grows. When employers pay well and have good benefits there is no need for welfare, government shrinks.

Welfare and food stamps were never meant for people who work.

I know, but this is what happens when employers pay too little. We vote in this country. Fair or not people will be taken care of either by employer or government. If you want small government, then employers need to pay up.

Nonsense! The sufficiency of employer wages is not determined by who gets welfare. Employers pay based on how much money is in the industry and how much people will pay for their product or service.

You deluded Leftists think you can name a salary and the money for it just magically appears. It's because you people are like large children that you have no idea how market forces work. I can flip burgers like any fast food worker, but how many of them can drive a big rig like me? How many are willing to endure many nights away from home?

People who want to be paid more need to work harder and gain skills that pay better. Crying like the little selfish brats you are because Burger King won't pay you more is just idiotic.

That isn't reality. Reality is if employers don't pay enough, then government will take care of them. Have you noticed our government grows with inequality?

Wrong. What I posted about market forces IS reality.

Walmart pays very little so employees collect welfare. Government grows, rich collect corporate welfare. That is reality. This is one reason our economy is so stagnant.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Their concern is with the business or corporation rather than the employee.

Artificially high wages - those not determined by productivity but rather gov't mandated - simply distort the economy creating inflationary pressure on prices which leave the poorest among us in exactly the same situation they are now.
The concern is always with balance and stability.

Like the multimillion dollar salaries of CEOs?

The average CEO earns $180,000/yr.
Ever notice that NBA stars earn many times more than average players and rookies? That they all earn more than the average American worker?
Wonder why that is?
Answer: Supply and demand for TALENT.

Same goes for most motion picture and tv actors. TV and radio talent in large markets make TONS of money. In fact the media business in larger markets and in national networks both over the air and cable are paid gobs of money.....Libs aviod talking about them...And why is this? Because most people in the entertainment/sports/news businesses are liberals.

Academia, entertainment, media, technology sectors tend to be more liberal just as Real estate, banking, mining, farming, and the fossil fuel industries tend to be more conservative. This is particularly true at high income income levels. No surprises here.

The point being that liberals will attack wealthy business people while saying nothing about the list of other occupations supplied above.
An irony of ironies is that they bypass the very business people ( CE)'s and the like) who run the companies that pay the occupations salaries listed above.
The all out war on the EVIL corporations is a huge fraud and presents a glaring example of a liberal double standard.
Quite frankly I am sick to death of class envy and the idea that taxation should be used as a means to punish people and business

 

[thereisnospoon]

Welfare and food stamps were never meant for people who work.

I know, but this is what happens when employers pay too little. We vote in this country. Fair or not people will be taken care of either by employer or government. If you want small government, then employers need to pay up.

Nonsense! The sufficiency of employer wages is not determined by who gets welfare. Employers pay based on how much money is in the industry and how much people will pay for their product or service.

You deluded Leftists think you can name a salary and the money for it just magically appears. It's because you people are like large children that you have no idea how market forces work. I can flip burgers like any fast food worker, but how many of them can drive a big rig like me? How many are willing to endure many nights away from home?

People who want to be paid more need to work harder and gain skills that pay better. Crying like the little selfish brats you are because Burger King won't pay you more is just idiotic.

That isn't reality. Reality is if employers don't pay enough, then government will take care of them. Have you noticed our government grows with inequality?

Wrong. What I posted about market forces IS reality.

Walmart pays very little so employees collect welfare. Government grows, rich collect corporate welfare. That is reality. This is one reason our economy is so stagnant.

That's another bullshit talking point.

 

[Political Junky]

I know, but this is what happens when employers pay too little. We vote in this country. Fair or not people will be taken care of either by employer or government. If you want small government, then employers need to pay up.

Nonsense! The sufficiency of employer wages is not determined by who gets welfare. Employers pay based on how much money is in the industry and how much people will pay for their product or service.

You deluded Leftists think you can name a salary and the money for it just magically appears. It's because you people are like large children that you have no idea how market forces work. I can flip burgers like any fast food worker, but how many of them can drive a big rig like me? How many are willing to endure many nights away from home?

People who want to be paid more need to work harder and gain skills that pay better. Crying like the little selfish brats you are because Burger King won't pay you more is just idiotic.

That isn't reality. Reality is if employers don't pay enough, then government will take care of them. Have you noticed our government grows with inequality?

Wrong. What I posted about market forces IS reality.

Walmart pays very little so employees collect welfare. Government grows, rich collect corporate welfare. That is reality. This is one reason our economy is so stagnant.

That's another bullshit talking point.

It's true.

 

[HappyJoy]

Living in a right to work state didn't stop self checkout lines at the grocery store, the minimum wage has nothing to do with this restaurant in San Francisco.

Keep telling yourself that.

Nothing I said was untrue.

 

[HappyJoy]

Living in a right to work state didn't stop self checkout lines at the grocery store, the minimum wage has nothing to do with this restaurant in San Francisco.

Right to work has nothing to do with automated technology.

Who said it did?

 

[Flopper]

So you want small business to pay very little and then have workers on welfare? That increases government dependence.

Why do you Leftwats think there's a link between employment and welfare? If the socialist government increases eligibility for food stamps so that 60 million can get it regardless of employment, how the hell is that the fault of businesses?

Stop lying, Leftists!

When employers stop taking care of employees politicians are elected who will have government fill that void, government grows. When employers pay well and have good benefits there is no need for welfare, government shrinks.

Welfare and food stamps were never meant for people who work.

I know, but this is what happens when employers pay too little. We vote in this country. Fair or not people will be taken care of either by employer or government. If you want small government, then employers need to pay up.

It is not that simple. The marketplace must be left to determine prices and wages.
Look, economic forces react to themselves.
When wages rise, prices rise.
When the marketplace can absorb the increases, we have a healthy economy with low rates of inflation. Cost of living remains relatively stable.
Enter this $15 per hour movement.....This thing affects the smallest and most vulnerable businesses. Those stores with the Golden Arches and such, are not owned by the corporation. They are owned by individuals who have sunk a significant amount of their life savings into the business at a very high risk.

As you said it's not that simple. In cities like San Francisco, New York, and Seattle who have enacted or plan to enact a $15 minimum wage, most low income workers are well above the current minimum wage and near or above the $15/hour wage. So the effect of the higher minimum wage is not near as great as it might seem. Secondly, most proposals for the $15 minimum wage is spread out over a number of years. In Seattle, many businesses will not be affected for 5 years. Seattle passed the the minimum wage last June and so far the business community as a whole has been very supportive. The University of Washington has started a 5 year study on the effects of the wage increase. It will be interesting to see their conclusion.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Oy vey...You are just chock full of liberal class envy talking points.....

What tax do they pay on stock options? Is it lower than income tax?

Lets just say what the typical stock option compensated person pays in cap gains taxes in a year is more than you will pay in your lifetime.
None of which is relevant to this discussion.

Yes capital gains are taxed less than income. Thank you.

As well they should be. Again, this presentation by you is irrelevant.

It shows they get paid gross amounts and get to cheat the tax man.

Explain how these people are "cheating" the tax man...
Who is the "tax man"?
Who is responsible for creating the US Tax Code?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The average cost of a one bedroom apartment in San Francisco is $3,530. I saw this on TV last night.

That's strange since the poverty level in San Francisco is 13%. Poverty rates near record levels in Bay Area despite hot economy

SF has one of the largest gaps between rich and poor. Lots of homeless.

And?...So do most cities where the cost of living is very high. What's your point?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Why do you Leftwats think there's a link between employment and welfare? If the socialist government increases eligibility for food stamps so that 60 million can get it regardless of employment, how the hell is that the fault of businesses?

Stop lying, Leftists!

When employers stop taking care of employees politicians are elected who will have government fill that void, government grows. When employers pay well and have good benefits there is no need for welfare, government shrinks.

Welfare and food stamps were never meant for people who work.

I know, but this is what happens when employers pay too little. We vote in this country. Fair or not people will be taken care of either by employer or government. If you want small government, then employers need to pay up.

It is not that simple. The marketplace must be left to determine prices and wages.
Look, economic forces react to themselves.
When wages rise, prices rise.
When the marketplace can absorb the increases, we have a healthy economy with low rates of inflation. Cost of living remains relatively stable.
Enter this $15 per hour movement.....This thing affects the smallest and most vulnerable businesses. Those stores with the Golden Arches and such, are not owned by the corporation. They are owned by individuals who have sunk a significant amount of their life savings into the business at a very high risk.

As you said it's not that simple. In cities like San Francisco, New York, and Seattle who have enacted or plan to enact a $15 minimum wage, most low income workers are well above the current minimum wage and near or above the $15/hour wage. So the effect of the higher minimum wage is not near as great as it might seem. Secondly, most proposals for the $15 minimum wage is spread out over a number of years. In Seattle, many businesses will not be affected for 5 years. Seattle passed the the minimum wage last June and so far the business community as a whole has been very supportive. The University of Washington has started a 5 year study on the effects of the wage increase. It will be interesting to see their conclusion.

So why these city governments enacted these minimums has another purpose. That can only be concluded as "for political reasons"....Or better stated, "see what we did?"

 

[thereisnospoon]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

Their concern is with the business or corporation rather than the employee.

Artificially high wages - those not determined by productivity but rather gov't mandated - simply distort the economy creating inflationary pressure on prices which leave the poorest among us in exactly the same situation they are now.
The concern is always with balance and stability.

Like the multimillion dollar salaries of CEOs?

The average CEO earns $180,000/yr.
Ever notice that NBA stars earn many times more than average players and rookies? That they all earn more than the average American worker?
Wonder why that is?
Answer: Supply and demand for TALENT.

No it is a rigged game. Even bad ceos get paid tons and get golden parachutes when finally fired.

Rigged game.....That's a complaint.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So you feel that because rents are high, the government should deflate the currency further, injuring everyone who trades in that currency, equally?

How long have you presented these irrefutable signs of idiocy?

I didn't say anything about deflating the currency. Only someone with no reasoning ability would say that.

Another idiot to put on my ignore roster.

When the supply of currency is increased in violation of market forces, the end result is the currency becomes worth less on the currency markets.
Now, how does this apply to artificially increased wages( government mandate)....simple. When wages or prices increase outside of the normal market forces, the federal reserve is forced to increase the amount of currency in circulation. This has an almost immediate effect of pushing prices upward because the US Dollar decreases in value.

 

[Brain357]

I know, but this is what happens when employers pay too little. We vote in this country. Fair or not people will be taken care of either by employer or government. If you want small government, then employers need to pay up.

Nonsense! The sufficiency of employer wages is not determined by who gets welfare. Employers pay based on how much money is in the industry and how much people will pay for their product or service.

You deluded Leftists think you can name a salary and the money for it just magically appears. It's because you people are like large children that you have no idea how market forces work. I can flip burgers like any fast food worker, but how many of them can drive a big rig like me? How many are willing to endure many nights away from home?

People who want to be paid more need to work harder and gain skills that pay better. Crying like the little selfish brats you are because Burger King won't pay you more is just idiotic.

That isn't reality. Reality is if employers don't pay enough, then government will take care of them. Have you noticed our government grows with inequality?

Wrong. What I posted about market forces IS reality.

Walmart pays very little so employees collect welfare. Government grows, rich collect corporate welfare. That is reality. This is one reason our economy is so stagnant.

That's another bullshit talking point.

It is reality.

 

[Brain357]

What tax do they pay on stock options? Is it lower than income tax?

Lets just say what the typical stock option compensated person pays in cap gains taxes in a year is more than you will pay in your lifetime.
None of which is relevant to this discussion.

Yes capital gains are taxed less than income. Thank you.

As well they should be. Again, this presentation by you is irrelevant.

It shows they get paid gross amounts and get to cheat the tax man.

Explain how these people are "cheating" the tax man...
Who is the "tax man"?
Who is responsible for creating the US Tax Code?

they aren't paying the higher income tax even though they are actually receiving a huge income.

 

[SAYIT]

So to the naysayers, have you been complaining about the folks on food stamps who are making low wages?
You can't have it both ways, ya know!

No...Wanting both ways is when one makes zero effort to improve their education or skills then demands they be paid higher wages.

Spoon, did I anything about wanting it both ways? Nope.
Not that long ago, companies used to provide training to their employees to upgrade their skills, that was back when companies used to invest in their employees.
So now a low paid employee must find funds to pay for training to upgrade their skills. When they are making minimum wage, that can be quite tricky, no?
I see the GOP wants to cut funding for training programs. Well, that just adds another wall for those who want to better their skills and life.

Not a wall. A hurdle. So what?....
And you'll have to dig for quite a while to find companies that no longer train workers for better positions...Stop it.

The jig is just about up. They are running out of stuff to whine about and are reduced to making shit up as they go along.