San Fransico Raises Min-wage to $15. Results in THIS:

[thereisnospoon]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

Their concern is with the business or corporation rather than the employee.

Yes corporations are no longer taking care of employees so the government has to. And the government grows. If you want small government the corporations have to take care of employees.

Nonsense...BTW, the employers job is to pay their employees. Not to "take care of them"...

 

[Brain357]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

At that point employers, mostly small business end up subsidizing government TWICE....Through taxation and again through forced government wages. This will squeeze small business into a corner where tjhey will have to make adjustments which will invariably have an adverse effect on jobs and the labor market.

Taking care of their workers is subsidizing government? Either the government or employers are going to take care of people. I prefer it be employers. I would give company's tax breaks if they pay well and hire here in the states.

 

[Brain357]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

Their concern is with the business or corporation rather than the employee.

Yes corporations are no longer taking care of employees so the government has to. And the government grows. If you want small government the corporations have to take care of employees.

Nonsense...BTW, the employers job is to pay their employees. Not to "take care of them"...

If they don't the government will. That is simply a fact. So if you want small government the employer has to.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So to the naysayers, have you been complaining about the folks on food stamps who are making low wages?
You can't have it both ways, ya know!

No...Wanting both ways is when one makes zero effort to improve their education or skills then demands they be paid higher wages.

Spoon, did I anything about wanting it both ways? Nope.
Not that long ago, companies used to provide training to their employees to upgrade their skills, that was back when companies used to invest in their employees.
So now a low paid employee must find funds to pay for training to upgrade their skills. When they are making minimum wage, that can be quite tricky, no?
I see the GOP wants to cut funding for training programs. Well, that just adds another wall for those who want to better their skills and life.

Not a wall. A hurdle. So what?....
And you'll have to dig for quite a while to find companies that no longer train workers for better positions...Stop it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

At that point employers, mostly small business end up subsidizing government TWICE....Through taxation and again through forced government wages. This will squeeze small business into a corner where tjhey will have to make adjustments which will invariably have an adverse effect on jobs and the labor market.

Taking care of their workers is subsidizing government? Either the government or employers are going to take care of people. I prefer it be employers. I would give company's tax breaks if they pay well and hire here in the states.[/QUOTE
You're mixing issues here.
Lets get this straight some 60% of US workers are employed by small business. Focus on the cost to smaller operators and owners.

 

[Brain357]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

At that point employers, mostly small business end up subsidizing government TWICE....Through taxation and again through forced government wages. This will squeeze small business into a corner where tjhey will have to make adjustments which will invariably have an adverse effect on jobs and the labor market.

Taking care of their workers is subsidizing government? Either the government or employers are going to take care of people. I prefer it be employers. I would give company's tax breaks if they pay well and hire here in the states.[/QUOTE
You're mixing issues here.
Lets get this straight some 60% of US workers are employed by small business. Focus on the cost to smaller operators and owners.

So you want small business to pay very little and then have workers on welfare? That increases government dependence.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

Their concern is with the business or corporation rather than the employee.

Artificially high wages - those not determined by productivity but rather gov't mandated - simply distort the economy creating inflationary pressure on prices which leave the poorest among us in exactly the same situation they are now.
The concern is always with balance and stability.

Like the multimillion dollar salaries of CEOs?

Ahh. The "CEO" card....Genius, board members are paid in stock options..

 

[Brain357]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

Their concern is with the business or corporation rather than the employee.

Artificially high wages - those not determined by productivity but rather gov't mandated - simply distort the economy creating inflationary pressure on prices which leave the poorest among us in exactly the same situation they are now.
The concern is always with balance and stability.

Like the multimillion dollar salaries of CEOs?

Ahh. The "CEO" card....Genius, board members are paid in stock options..

So they can avoid income tax.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Why don't they build low-income, high rise apartments for the McD workers to live in near their jobs in San Francisco, preferably overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge or around the rich people's houses in town? They do that in the towns where many of us live.

Don't the liberals want to live around poor people?

 

[thereisnospoon]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

At that point employers, mostly small business end up subsidizing government TWICE....Through taxation and again through forced government wages. This will squeeze small business into a corner where tjhey will have to make adjustments which will invariably have an adverse effect on jobs and the labor market.

Taking care of their workers is subsidizing government? Either the government or employers are going to take care of people. I prefer it be employers. I would give company's tax breaks if they pay well and hire here in the states.[/QUOTE
You're mixing issues here.
Lets get this straight some 60% of US workers are employed by small business. Focus on the cost to smaller operators and owners.

So you want small business to pay very little and then have workers on welfare? That increases government dependence.

Wow....Just wow....
OK...
1. small business employers for the most part do not offer careers. There's just not that type of job available
2. Small businesses have higher turnover rates than larger companies. Therefore due to the sheer number of entry level workers, the labor rates are skewed to the lower ends of the spectrum.
3. Small business especially those employing low skill workers are stepping stones rather than those with which employees have long tenures.
4. Small business is highly resistant to the "entrenched" type worker. One who takes a job and makes no initiative to improve their skill set or to take on more responsibility.
5. Small business profit margins are often the lowest of any type business. Especially franchise type business. Hence labor rates are forced lower.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

Their concern is with the business or corporation rather than the employee.

Artificially high wages - those not determined by productivity but rather gov't mandated - simply distort the economy creating inflationary pressure on prices which leave the poorest among us in exactly the same situation they are now.
The concern is always with balance and stability.

Like the multimillion dollar salaries of CEOs?

Ahh. The "CEO" card....Genius, board members are paid in stock options..

So they can avoid income tax.

Oy vey...You are just chock full of liberal class envy talking points.....

 

[Brain357]

I love how the same people who want everyone to get paid nothing also want no welfare and small government. Sorry but high wages are how you lower welfare and decrease the size of governent. All this increasing inequality is increasing government dependence and the size of government. Not to mention slowing the economy.

At that point employers, mostly small business end up subsidizing government TWICE....Through taxation and again through forced government wages. This will squeeze small business into a corner where tjhey will have to make adjustments which will invariably have an adverse effect on jobs and the labor market.

Taking care of their workers is subsidizing government? Either the government or employers are going to take care of people. I prefer it be employers. I would give company's tax breaks if they pay well and hire here in the states.[/QUOTE
You're mixing issues here.
Lets get this straight some 60% of US workers are employed by small business. Focus on the cost to smaller operators and owners.

So you want small business to pay very little and then have workers on welfare? That increases government dependence.

Wow....Just wow....
OK...
1. small business employers for the most part do not offer careers. There's just not that type of job available
2. Small businesses have higher turnover rates than larger companies. Therefore due to the sheer number of entry level workers, the labor rates are skewed to the lower ends of the spectrum.
3. Small business especially those employing low skill workers are stepping stones rather than those with which employees have long tenures.
4. Small business is highly resistant to the "entrenched" type worker. One who takes a job and makes no initiative to improve their skill set or to take on more responsibility.
5. Small business profit margins are often the lowest of any type business. Especially franchise type business. Hence labor rates are forced lower.

And you are claiming 60% are employed under those circumstances? Gee, think that leads to government dependence? No wonder government is growing. Only way to fight that is good employers who take care of employees.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Why don't they build low-income, high rise apartments for the McD workers to live in near their jobs in San Francisco, preferably overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge or around the rich people's houses in town? They do that in the towns where many of us live.

Don't the liberals want to live around poor people?

LOL......

 

[Brain357]

Their concern is with the business or corporation rather than the employee.

Artificially high wages - those not determined by productivity but rather gov't mandated - simply distort the economy creating inflationary pressure on prices which leave the poorest among us in exactly the same situation they are now.
The concern is always with balance and stability.

Like the multimillion dollar salaries of CEOs?

Ahh. The "CEO" card....Genius, board members are paid in stock options..

So they can avoid income tax.

Oy vey...You are just chock full of liberal class envy talking points.....

What tax do they pay on stock options? Is it lower than income tax?

 

[thereisnospoon]

At that point employers, mostly small business end up subsidizing government TWICE....Through taxation and again through forced government wages. This will squeeze small business into a corner where tjhey will have to make adjustments which will invariably have an adverse effect on jobs and the labor market.

Taking care of their workers is subsidizing government? Either the government or employers are going to take care of people. I prefer it be employers. I would give company's tax breaks if they pay well and hire here in the states.[/QUOTE
You're mixing issues here.
Lets get this straight some 60% of US workers are employed by small business. Focus on the cost to smaller operators and owners.

So you want small business to pay very little and then have workers on welfare? That increases government dependence.

Wow....Just wow....
OK...
1. small business employers for the most part do not offer careers. There's just not that type of job available
2. Small businesses have higher turnover rates than larger companies. Therefore due to the sheer number of entry level workers, the labor rates are skewed to the lower ends of the spectrum.
3. Small business especially those employing low skill workers are stepping stones rather than those with which employees have long tenures.
4. Small business is highly resistant to the "entrenched" type worker. One who takes a job and makes no initiative to improve their skill set or to take on more responsibility.
5. Small business profit margins are often the lowest of any type business. Especially franchise type business. Hence labor rates are forced lower.

And you are claiming 60% are employed under those circumstances? Gee, think that leads to government dependence? No wonder government is growing. Only way to fight that is good employers who take care of employees.

I'm not claiming anything. These are the facts.
And not it does not lead to dependence on government.
Let's see. How about these reasons....
1. not living within one's means
2. creating children one cannot afford to raise properly
3 self destructive habits such as alcohol and drug abuse.
4. lack of personal responsibility
These are the main factors to which dependency upon government can be applied
Here's a newsflash...
Your employer is not Dr Phil.....He or she is not your guardian, you mommy or daddy. He or she is not your shrink nor your priest
Your employer does not tuck you into bed. Doesn't take care of your kids and not responsible for your kid's soccer practice or their runny nose.
Your employer is not there to see to your needs.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Artificially high wages - those not determined by productivity but rather gov't mandated - simply distort the economy creating inflationary pressure on prices which leave the poorest among us in exactly the same situation they are now.
The concern is always with balance and stability.

Like the multimillion dollar salaries of CEOs?

Ahh. The "CEO" card....Genius, board members are paid in stock options..

So they can avoid income tax.

Oy vey...You are just chock full of liberal class envy talking points.....

What tax do they pay on stock options? Is it lower than income tax?

Lets just say what the typical stock option compensated person pays in cap gains taxes in a year is more than you will pay in your lifetime.
None of which is relevant to this discussion.

 

[Brain357]

Taking care of their workers is subsidizing government? Either the government or employers are going to take care of people. I prefer it be employers. I would give company's tax breaks if they pay well and hire here in the states.[/QUOTE
You're mixing issues here.
Lets get this straight some 60% of US workers are employed by small business. Focus on the cost to smaller operators and owners.

So you want small business to pay very little and then have workers on welfare? That increases government dependence.

Wow....Just wow....
OK...
1. small business employers for the most part do not offer careers. There's just not that type of job available
2. Small businesses have higher turnover rates than larger companies. Therefore due to the sheer number of entry level workers, the labor rates are skewed to the lower ends of the spectrum.
3. Small business especially those employing low skill workers are stepping stones rather than those with which employees have long tenures.
4. Small business is highly resistant to the "entrenched" type worker. One who takes a job and makes no initiative to improve their skill set or to take on more responsibility.
5. Small business profit margins are often the lowest of any type business. Especially franchise type business. Hence labor rates are forced lower.

And you are claiming 60% are employed under those circumstances? Gee, think that leads to government dependence? No wonder government is growing. Only way to fight that is good employers who take care of employees.

I'm not claiming anything. These are the facts.
And not it does not lead to dependence on government.
Let's see. How about these reasons....
1. not living within one's means
2. creating children one cannot afford to raise properly
3 self destructive habits such as alcohol and drug abuse.
4. lack of personal responsibility
These are the main factors to which dependency upon government can be applied
Here's a newsflash...
Your employer is not Dr Phil.....He or she is not your guardian, you mommy or daddy. He or she is not your shrink nor your priest
Your employer does not tuck you into bed. Doesn't take care of your kids and not responsible for your kid's soccer practice or their runny nose.
Your employer is not there to see to your needs.

And when your employer doesn't, the government does. That will be the case as long as we vote. You want the impossible. As long as people get treated poorly by employers, government will grow.

 

[Brain357]

Like the multimillion dollar salaries of CEOs?

Ahh. The "CEO" card....Genius, board members are paid in stock options..

So they can avoid income tax.

Oy vey...You are just chock full of liberal class envy talking points.....

What tax do they pay on stock options? Is it lower than income tax?

Lets just say what the typical stock option compensated person pays in cap gains taxes in a year is more than you will pay in your lifetime.
None of which is relevant to this discussion.

Yes capital gains are taxed less than income. Thank you.

 

[kiwiman127]

So to the naysayers, have you been complaining about the folks on food stamps who are making low wages?
You can't have it both ways, ya know!

No...Wanting both ways is when one makes zero effort to improve their education or skills then demands they be paid higher wages.

Until they upgrade their skills how should they house and feed themselves?

Keep working...Unless they are homeless and destitute, there is no reason for public assistance.
What you left wingers fail to acknowledge is that once a person gets used to the government checks, they never want to stop getting them.
The system in place removes all incentive to move up and away from the level of income which permits them to collect.
Workers who've gotten raises are actually asking for reduced hours and other concessions so they can keep their benefits.....Ridiculous
Nonprofit employer: Workers requested reduced hours to stay in...
Careful what you ask for! Workers get $15 minimum wage, beg for fewer hours to keep welfare - BizPac Review
Interesting article below. The irony here is the writer is Arindrajit Dube (a left leaning scholar who supports a minimum wage rise)
Yes, New York's $15 Fast Food Minimum Wage Will Be A Failure--Why Do You Ask?
Save your "but what about" questions for someone else.

Thanks for your response.
Regarding the article regarding The state of New York.
As I'm sure you are aware, the cost of living in the city of New York is far higher than the cost of living in out state New York. That said, I think Coumo is wrong with his proposal. I. Look at the minimum wage settings as a local issue, with the state determining the floor of what the minimum wage should be. $15 is an acceptable level in New York City and maybe $9-9.50 at the state level per example.
Your other article covers an isolated case which I bet is out of the norm .

 

[thereisnospoon]

The Bay Area is an extremely expensive place to live.
$15 an hour is nothing there. When I graduated from high school I was living in Palo Alto and my summer job paid $3 more than the minimum wage in the early 80s.

All this increase in the minimum wage is accomplishing is two things:

- Less minimum wage jobs, which has an inordinate impact on teenagers who are denied the opportunity to develop good work habits.

- To make fast food and other high labor local good and services Much More Expensive, which impacts poor people the most.

Hopenchange!

Poor people should eat all fast food? or should they be fixing food at home? Teenagers can't mow lawns anymore or go around and offer to pull weeds, sweep or whatever?

IN that post, "poor people should all eat fast food" appears where?
The fact is of any fiscal group, low people are the most likely to have poor eating habits. They go for convenience foods. The are the least likely to prepare meals at home. They consume more 'junk food'....
And please, we've been exposed to the complaining that eating healthy is too costly is nonsense. For it is convenience and fast food that has a higher cost, much higher than store brand food from a supermarket.