Russia complains it faces a "proxy war" in Ukraine that could lead to WWIII

[eagle1462010]

The MAD principle is just that. Only a principle. There is no way to guarantee that Russia subscribes to it. There is no way to guarantee that Russia doesn't find a nuclear war winnable. That's a heavily held Western belief.

And a heavy belief of Russia since WWII.

Putin violated the INF treaty during Trump. Trump withdrew. That treaty was to prevent nuclear war. Then Putin got butt hurt he was called out. Oh well

 

[Donald H]

The MAD principle is just that. Only a principle. There is no way to guarantee that Russia subscribes to it. There is no way to guarantee that Russia doesn't find a nuclear war winnable. That's a heavily held Western belief.

Yes, and in fact I have taken part on a military forum that was frequented by military people and some retired from the higher ranks. I was banned from that forum because I brought up the MAD factor.
The point i very quickly learned (too late) was to not even contemplate the possibility of MAD! The military mind doesn't and the reason why is because it destroys morale!

I took that as their gift to me of huge enlightenment! I came to understand very well that MAD is on very shaky grounds!

I'll never forget the lesson I learned.

Believe it or not, the common wisdom on that forum was that America could annihilate Russia and come out of it unscathed. If that wasn't believed and accepted by the ranks on that board, then they didn't have the courage to say so.

Does the Russian military feel the same way? Absolutely they do!

 

[HenryBHough]

If you are allowed so to do then please consider the deeper meaning of "Better Dead Than Red", flip it around.

True believers often subscribe to different sorts of logic than to sheep.

 

[there4eyeM]

A sovereign nation has every right to invite others to participate in its defense against unprovoked invasion. There is every excuse to put troops in the western part to keep invaders out or to advance those troops to push out the invaders (see Korea 1950s). That isn't saying we have to be for that or do that, it only says Putin has no justification to object.

 

[HenryBHough]

A sovereign nation has every right to invite others to participate in its defense against unprovoked invasion. There is every excuse to put troops in the western part to keep invaders out or to advance those troops to push out the invaders (see Korea 1950s). That isn't saying we have to be for that or do that, it only says Putin has no justification to object.

Object? I agree - no.

React?

Wanna find out?

 

[B. Kidd]

Russia has warned us if we want to continue playing 'world police'.

Our stupid leaders continue to get stupid results!
No one can ever say that we haven't been warned.
Carry on.....

 

[eagle1462010]

Russia has warned us if we want to continue playing 'world police'.

Our stupid leaders continue to get stupid results!
No one can ever say that we haven't been warned.
Carry on.....

Fuck em

 

[skye]

Of course it's a proxy war that Ukraine is fighting with the help of NATO

Everyone who has eyes can tell you it's a freaking proxy war.

 

[Toro]

Russia's special military operation is going exactly as Putin planned. ...

I hope you're not getting paid for posting here.

 

[Toro]

Understand that if we have WWIII, Russia would get wiped out completely.

So Russian Trolls

It doesn't matter what your masters tell you, you're all going to be dead.

 

[Toro]

 

[AZrailwhale]

If Russia's conventional capabilities are depleted, Russia will turn to nuclear weapons. Russia is not going to accept defeat.

Here, the only purpose is to speculate on Russia's use of tactical nuclear weapons on the ukraine, being enough to activate MAD. My guess is that it won't.

1. answer?

2. answer?

3. answer?

Russia isn’t going to turn to nuclear war. Putin will commit suicide by shooting himself forty seven times in the back before that happens. He may be a megalomaniac idiot, but the people around him aren’t. They aren’t going to allow him to destroy their power in a blast of nuclear fire.

 

[AZrailwhale]

A "proxy" war only by NATOs desire. Ukraine isn't a NATO member. But the West wants to be involved anyway. If at some point this does start going badly for Russia, and they can reasonably attribute that to NATOs involvment; Russia will likely give NATO exactly what it wants. Involvement. It would suck to be a European Warhawk (or any European for that matter), when that point comes.

NATOs attitude to Russia is simple, “don’t do nothing, won’t be nothing”. NATO stood by and watched while Putin’s Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea, then invaded Georgia and annexed Ossetia. It finally realized that appeasing Putin was a losing proposition.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You're suggesting the emphasis is on Nato countries' actions against Russia, and therefore the repercussions on Nato countries too.

You're right about it being a proxy war but you aren't accepting that it's America's proxy war against Russia. If it becomes a full-on nuclear war on Russia then America will be Russia's primary target.

I've said several times now:

An injury to a Nato country is an injury to all.

An aggression by a Nato country is an aggression by all.
Russia's reaction to a nuclear attack on it's territory wouldn't be delayed as long as it would take for the first nuke to hit them.

We must discuss the possibilities, but we shouldn't interpret it as an arm chair war.

Personally, I'm sitting in *spitting distance from Seattle. That speaks for my priorities.

*rhetorically speaking.

Exactly how do you claim helping a independent nation defend itself against a foreign invader is aggression? Was the UN helping the ROK defend itself from an unprovoked invasion by the DPRK an aggression? Was the UK helping Greece defend itself from an Italy/German invasion an aggression? Was the US and UK helping the USSR defend itself against an unprovoked German invasion an aggression?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Yes, and in fact I have taken part on a military forum that was frequented by military people and some retired from the higher ranks. I was banned from that forum because I brought up the MAD factor.
The point i very quickly learned (too late) was to not even contemplate the possibility of MAD! The military mind doesn't and the reason why is because it destroys morale!

I took that as their gift to me of huge enlightenment! I came to understand very well that MAD is on very shaky grounds!

I'll never forget the lesson I learned.

Believe it or not, the common wisdom on that forum was that America could annihilate Russia and come out of it unscathed. If that wasn't believed and accepted by the ranks on that board, then they didn't have the courage to say so.

Does the Russian military feel the same way? Absolutely they do!

You got banned because you are an opinionated idiot. You show that every day here on every subject you post on. This site is just more tolerant of idiots than some.

 

[Donald H]

Exactly how do you claim helping a independent nation defend itself against a foreign invader is aggression? Was the UN helping the ROK defend itself from an unprovoked invasion by the DPRK an aggression? Was the UK helping Greece defend itself from an Italy/German invasion an aggression? Was the US and UK helping the USSR defend itself against an unprovoked German invasion an aggression?

'Exactly' how? Let's work together to figure this out!
You just asking the question is condusive to a discussion.

 

[Donald H]

You got banned because you are an opinionated idiot. You show that every day here on every subject you post on. This site is just more tolerant of idiots than some.

Were you there on that military forum?

 

[ESay]

Russia isn’t going to turn to nuclear war. Putin will commit suicide by shooting himself forty seven times in the back before that happens. He may be a megalomaniac idiot, but the people around him aren’t. They aren’t going to allow him to destroy their power in a blast of nuclear fire.

Who knows. Many people believed that Putin's cronies didn't allow Putin to escalate relations with the West to this level. Because of all their money and property. But the things went different way.

 

[Donald H]

Who knows. Many people believed that Putin's cronies didn't allow Putin to escalate relations with the West to this level. Because of all their money and property. But the things went different way.

Putin is more popular with the Russian people than he was before this war.

The Russian people understand aggression from foreign enemies because they were made to remember. If Putin is replaced, their resolve won't weaken. He could be replaced with a new leader who is even more determined to not capitulate to US aggression.

 

[ESay]

Putin is more popular with the Russian people than he was before this war.

The Russian people understand aggression from foreign enemies because they were made to remember. If Putin is replaced, their resolve won't weaken. He could be replaced with a new leader who is even more determined to not capitulate to US aggression.

It may well be. His successor can be worse than he is. But that has nothing to do with popular's opinion. A new leader will be determined in the result of the struggle inside elites.