Rules of Engagement (ROE) CHANGED...Hurray!!!

[JoeB131]

You wrote: "To his credit, he managed to kill Bin Laden (something Bush had failed to do)."
Obama did not KILL Bin Laden. He was President when the final phase of tracking Osama down (not done by Bush but authorized by Bush) that took

Um, yeah. Here's the thing. Bush pulled out of Afghanistan to go after IRaq, allowing Bin Laden to get away.

Obama got him.

Here's the thing. I'll criticize Obama for things he did wrong. You guys can't praise him to save your lives.

 

[healthmyths]

When President Obama ended the U.S. combat mission in Afghanistan at the end of 2014, he took away the American military’s authority to offensively attack Taliban jihadists, only allowing them to shoot at the terrorists in self-defense, when they pose an imminent threat.

U.S.-trained Afghan security forces, who have been rated ineffective, assumed the lead of operations against the Taliban at the beginning of 2015.

By the end of that year, Taliban terrorists had replaced their Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL) rivals as the world’s chief perpetrators of terrorist attacks, with 1,093 individual attacks, according to Obama’s own State Department.
”Those expanded powers mean U.S. commanders and their lawyers will have to decide even more frequently whether they can justify the use of force against Taliban fighters.”In a sworn statement that was part of a heavily redacted Pentagon report that was declassified earlier this year, a battle-hardened Green Beret said the Afghanistan war mission suffers from “moral cowardice” and a “profound lack of strategy.”

“The enemy operates with impunity throughout the country due to our relentless commitment to avoid principled strategy and decision-making processes,” he added.
Rules of Engagement Hurting U.S. Troops

QUESTION: During WWII did the military have lawyers advising on the ground commanders the legal aspects? "U.S. commanders and their lawyers"

 

[healthmyths]

"I didn't feel like dying for the Jews and the Oil Companies,"
A) That makes you anti-Semitic and a KKK advocate! For shame!

No, when a group gets us into 25 years of war so they can play "God Loves me the Very best" that's actually a valid criticism.

B) Your admiration for Obama is certainly apparent but are you aware that Obama's presidency did the following to make the USA MORE dependent on foreign OIL!

then why did our import level go down. Here's the thing, the problem isn't where were are getting the oil from. The problem is war after war to keep the oil flowing. And yes, I think Obama followed the same policies everyone else did, that's the problem. What we should have done in 1974, the first time the Arabs realized they could screw us with oil, we should have engaged in a crash program to get off oil. Instead we have spent that time trying to play hall monitor in the middle east.

so once we have the honest conversation that we are over their fighting for the Jews and Oil Companies, maybe Americans won't be so keen to sign up for that shit.

ANTI-SEMITIC ! RACIST!

 

[JoeB131]

When President Obama ended the U.S. combat mission in Afghanistan at the end of 2014, he took away the American military’s authority to offensively attack Taliban jihadists, only allowing them to shoot at the terrorists in self-defense, when they pose an imminent threat.

You mean after THIRTEEN FUCKING YEARS, he decided he wasn't going to have us fight their war for them any more.

Good for him.

look, if the smack-pushing crooks in Kabul hadn't gotten it together in 13 years, they weren't ever going to, that's the point here.

ANTI-SEMITIC ! RACIST!

Since the Arabs are every bit as much as Semites as the Jews are, why is "not wanting to take a side in your fight over an imaginary sky pixie" anti-semitic, exactly?

Sorry, man, "God Loves Me the Best" is not a good reason for Americans to be coming home in boxes.

I mean, you can almost excuse "war for oil" because we get some benefit from that, I suppose, but backing the Zionists kind of foils that and gives them a lot of fresh greivences.

What would be smart is to take the 900 Billion we spend every year and invest it in alternative energy, domestic oil production and public transit infrastructure so we aren't funding people who want to kill us.

 

[JoeB131]

QUESTION: During WWII did the military have lawyers advising on the ground commanders the legal aspects? "U.S. commanders and their lawyers"

World War II was a declared war against a recognized enemy. Afghanistan, not so much.

So we can't really have it both ways. Either the Kleptocrats of Kabul are a legitimate government, and they can fight their own damned war, or they aren't.

Now, if you want to really keep using WWII as an example, I'm good with that. Let's do what we did in World War II.

Tax the rich at a top marginal rate of 93% to pay for it all.
Have a universal draft and field a huge army.
Ration gasoline on an "as-needed" basis. Make carpooling mandatory.

Now, here's a big thing we did in WWII. When the Japanese cut off our supply of rubber in SE Asia, we invested a lot of money in developing artificial rubber.

If you really, really want us to treat a struggle with a few tribes in Afghanistan like the war against fascism, that's awesome, let's do that, but I don't think you'd like the society you'd get.

 

[healthmyths]

When President Obama ended the U.S. combat mission in Afghanistan at the end of 2014, he took away the American military’s authority to offensively attack Taliban jihadists, only allowing them to shoot at the terrorists in self-defense, when they pose an imminent threat.

You mean after THIRTEEN FUCKING YEARS, he decided he wasn't going to have us fight their war for them any more.

Good for him.

look, if the smack-pushing crooks in Kabul hadn't gotten it together in 13 years, they weren't ever going to, that's the point here.

ANTI-SEMITIC ! RACIST!

Since the Arabs are every bit as much as Semites as the Jews are, why is "not wanting to take a side in your fight over an imaginary sky pixie" anti-semitic, exactly?

Sorry, man, "God Loves Me the Best" is not a good reason for Americans to be coming home in boxes.

I mean, you can almost excuse "war for oil" because we get some benefit from that, I suppose, but backing the Zionists kind of foils that and gives them a lot of fresh greivences.

What would be smart is to take the 900 Billion we spend every year and invest it in alternative energy, domestic oil production and public transit infrastructure so we aren't funding people who want to kill us.

Well ONE good reason for spending the money on the military is to reduce the chance THIS happens again!

 

[healthmyths]

QUESTION: During WWII did the military have lawyers advising on the ground commanders the legal aspects? "U.S. commanders and their lawyers"

World War II was a declared war against a recognized enemy. Afghanistan, not so much.

So we can't really have it both ways. Either the Kleptocrats of Kabul are a legitimate government, and they can fight their own damned war, or they aren't.

Now, if you want to really keep using WWII as an example, I'm good with that. Let's do what we did in World War II.

Tax the rich at a top marginal rate of 93% to pay for it all.
Have a universal draft and field a huge army.
Ration gasoline on an "as-needed" basis. Make carpooling mandatory.

Now, here's a big thing we did in WWII. When the Japanese cut off our supply of rubber in SE Asia, we invested a lot of money in developing artificial rubber.

If you really, really want us to treat a struggle with a few tribes in Afghanistan like the war against fascism, that's awesome, let's do that, but I don't think you'd like the society you'd get.

You still haven't answered WHY we have 140,000 troops in Asia/Europe after 70 years! Now I could see as all the military minds saw the necessity after
WWII was over... because I like the military heard of this:
Werwolf (pronounced [ˈveːɐ̯vɔlf], German for "werewolf") was a Nazi plan, which began development in 1944,[2] to create a resistance force which would operate behind enemy lines as the Allies advanced through Germany. However Werwolf's propaganda value far outweighed its actual achievements.
Werwolf originally had about five thousand members recruited from the SS and the Hitler Youth. These recruits were specially trained in guerrilla tactics. Operation Werwolf went so far as to establish front companies to ensure continued fighting in those areas of Germany that were occupied (all of the "front companies" were discovered and shut down within eight months).[citation needed] However, as it became clear that the reputedly impregnable Alpine Fortress, from which operations were to be directed by the Nazi leadership in the event that the rest of Germany was occupied, was yet another delusion, Werwolf was converted into a terroristorganisation in the last few weeks of the war.
Werwolf - Wikipedia
Now obviously neither you nor Obama had any inkling this happened and because of it the US kept a presence in Europe!
Now knowing your childish, immature hate of the rich-oil-America attitude will make fun of this but right after losing thousands of American lives people a lot smarter then
you and Obama KNEW that insurgency would occur...i.e. ISIS,etc.!
But idiots like you and obama especially you thinking that hey take troops war is over is just simply naïveté at it's worst!

 

[Markle]

What's our vital interest in staying in Afghanistan at this point?

Killing ISIS.

 

[Markle]

We have general welfare clause not a general defense clause.

It really is that simple, dears.

Please read our Constitution.

 

[danielpalos]

I really don't understand these idiot liars that KNOW that it takes just a few minutes to show they are liars WHY they persist?
Unbelievable in this day when the FACTS are so easy to get!

they dont call em leftards for no reason

The right wing has always been clueless and Causeless; but for twice a day. This is Not, one of those, twice a day moments.

Well at least at the minimum the we of the "RIGHT" KNOW when NOT to help the bad guys kill our guys!
Can't say the same for these idiot /traitors who actually according to a Harvard study HELPED the terrorists kill people!
You asked "What else was Obama suppose to do?"
JUST SHUT THE F....K UP!
Remember Obama was the traitor who told the world "our troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians," Only an idiot tells the bad guys our guys are BAD!
He and these other traitors also helped the barbarians by telling the world:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid(D) "War is lost", Certainly gave the barbarians a good old atta boy!
U.S. Rep. Murtha(D) "Our troops killed innocent civilians in cold blood,”
Or how about the future Secretary of State Senator Kerry(D)
"American soldiers going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children." Calling our troops "TERRORISTS"!
With this mentality was it NO wonder ISIS regained Mosul,etc. and 11% of Afghanistan is still in barbarians' hands.
So is it NO surprise that the Harvard study found words like the above "emboldened" the terrorist to increase killings and violence after these statements were made to
cheerlead the bad guys and bad mouth our guys?
JUST SHUT THE F...K UP!

Y'all on the right wing cannot distinguish between the common Defense and the common Offense. Why should the left take y'all seriously?

We have general welfare clause not a general defense clause.

It really is that simple, dears.

"…make them believe, that offensive operations, often times, is the surest, if not the only (in some cases) means of defence" - G. Washington

"The best defense is a good offense"

I wouldn't expect a **** like you to understand either one.

We have powers of Congress in the Constitution that give direct authority to wage war. We don't have anything you idiots on the left use as examples of general welfare. Ponder on that, son.

We have a common defense clause, not a general defense clause. What you claim of the common Defense, must be even more true, for the general welfare.

 

[danielpalos]

We have general welfare clause not a general defense clause.

It really is that simple, dears.

Please read our Constitution.

We have general welfare clause not a general defense clause.

All y'all have, is right wing fantasy.

 

[Conservative65]

they dont call em leftards for no reason

The right wing has always been clueless and Causeless; but for twice a day. This is Not, one of those, twice a day moments.

Well at least at the minimum the we of the "RIGHT" KNOW when NOT to help the bad guys kill our guys!
Can't say the same for these idiot /traitors who actually according to a Harvard study HELPED the terrorists kill people!
You asked "What else was Obama suppose to do?"
JUST SHUT THE F....K UP!
Remember Obama was the traitor who told the world "our troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians," Only an idiot tells the bad guys our guys are BAD!
He and these other traitors also helped the barbarians by telling the world:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid(D) "War is lost", Certainly gave the barbarians a good old atta boy!
U.S. Rep. Murtha(D) "Our troops killed innocent civilians in cold blood,”
Or how about the future Secretary of State Senator Kerry(D)
"American soldiers going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children." Calling our troops "TERRORISTS"!
With this mentality was it NO wonder ISIS regained Mosul,etc. and 11% of Afghanistan is still in barbarians' hands.
So is it NO surprise that the Harvard study found words like the above "emboldened" the terrorist to increase killings and violence after these statements were made to
cheerlead the bad guys and bad mouth our guys?
JUST SHUT THE F...K UP!

Y'all on the right wing cannot distinguish between the common Defense and the common Offense. Why should the left take y'all seriously?

We have general welfare clause not a general defense clause.

It really is that simple, dears.

"…make them believe, that offensive operations, often times, is the surest, if not the only (in some cases) means of defence" - G. Washington

"The best defense is a good offense"

I wouldn't expect a **** like you to understand either one.

We have powers of Congress in the Constitution that give direct authority to wage war. We don't have anything you idiots on the left use as examples of general welfare. Ponder on that, son.

We have a common defense clause, not a general defense clause. What you claim of the common Defense, must be even more true, for the general welfare.

We also have things that specifically say Armies and Navy. We don't have any of the programs specifically listed that you retards on the left consider general welfare.

Go troll somewhere, son, before you get embarrassed.

 

[healthmyths]

I certainly didn't want the diversions this thread created from the primary purpose, i.e. to congratulate President Trump for having the common sense to
reduce the truly dangerous and onerous ROEs. His non-political, practical get it done common sense is a major reason millions of us voted for him.
But since there still seems some people that have very little common sense and are so naive that I have to put in smaller chunks what exactly the rescinding of this
truly dangerous ROE means to our troops now.
Obama's politically motivate ROE that states: "Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force."
Under the above ROE:
A US soldier has been fired on by a bad guy.
The US soldier CAN not go after the bad guy.
Because if the US soldier went after the bad guy and the US soldier returned fire, the US soldier might kill the bad guy...(defend with lethal force).
So to be as clear as possible... Obama's ROE was to protect civilians NOT the US Soldier. In doing so this politically driven decision meant the bad guys, ISIS et.al. KNEW that they could go into an area take over the area because..WHY??? The US soldiers might have to kill the bad guys and that was NOT NICE!

I really don't understand how something so simple as abolishing the ROE that kept the US soldier from doing his job is hard to understand?
The bad guys knew the US Soldier would NOT use "Lethal force" because the US Soldier was ORDERED NOT TO!

 

[JoeB131]

Well ONE good reason for spending the money on the military is to reduce the chance THIS happens again!

We were spending 600 Billion on the military when that happened. They beat us with $4.00 box cutters and some flying lessons.

So 16 years after that happened, and we are still flopping around in Afghanistan with not much to show for it. Just sayin'.

You still haven't answered WHY we have 140,000 troops in Asia/Europe after 70 years! Now I could see as all the military minds saw the necessity after
WWII was over... because I like the military heard of this:

The Werewolfs were over by 1946, and they really didn't amount to all that much... Compared to the Taliban who are still fighting us.

Now if we were still fighting the Nazis as late as 1962, you might have a point here. But you really don't.

Now obviously neither you nor Obama had any inkling this happened and because of it the US kept a presence in Europe!

I thought we kept a presense in Europe because we were afraid the Soviets were going to take it over. But you see, that's because I learned history at a real university, and not some Right Wing correspondence course.

Now knowing your childish, immature hate of the rich-oil-America attitude will make fun of this but right after losing thousands of American lives people a lot smarter then
you and Obama KNEW that insurgency would occur...i.e. ISIS,etc.!
But idiots like you and obama especially you thinking that hey take troops war is over is just simply naïveté at it's worst!

Those people weren't going to have a son come home in a body bag. you know, it's awfully easy to be brave when SOMEONE ELSE IS DOING THE FIGHTING!

ALso, the reason why we had an insurgency is because the guy Bush put in charge, Maliki, decided he was going to hoarde all the goodies for his Shi'ites and not share with the Sunnis. We specifically told him not to do that, he did it anyway.

So while Petreaus was giving them bags full of money play nice, Maliki decided to try to crush their political power once and for all. That's why you had an insurgency.

Not. Our. Problem.

 

[JoeB131]

I certainly didn't want the diversions this thread created from the primary purpose, i.e. to congratulate President Trump for having the common sense to
reduce the truly dangerous and onerous ROEs. His non-political, practical get it done common sense is a major reason millions of us voted for him.

except that's not what he ran on.

Tracking Donald Trump's evolving positions on Afghanistan

Here’s the chronological list. (Hat tip to the Washington Post’s Aaron Blake.)

• Aug 13, 2011: "Ron Paul is right that we are wasting trillions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan." (Trillions? Really Donnie?)

• Oct. 7, 2011: "When will we stop wasting our money on rebuilding Afghanistan? We must rebuild our country first."

• Feb. 29, 2012: "China is getting minerals from Afghanistan http://usat.ly/t69pc1 We are getting our troops killed by the Afghani govt't. Time to get out."

• Sept. 11, 2012: "84% of US troops wounded & 70% of our brave men & women killed in Afghanistan have all come under Obama. Time to get out of there."

• Dec. 6, 2012: "Karzai of Afghanistan is not sticking with our signed agreement. They are dropping us like dopes. Get out now and re-build U.S.!"

• Feb. 27, 2012: "It is time to get out of Afghanistan. We are building roads and schools for people that hate us. It is not in our national interests."

• Aug. 21, 2012: "Why are we continuing to train these Afghanis who then shoot our soldiers in the back? Afghanistan is a complete waste. Time to come home!"

• Jan. 11, 2013: "Let’s get out of Afghanistan. Our troops are being killed by the Afghanis we train and we waste billions there. Nonsense! Rebuild the USA."

• Jan. 14, 2013: "I agree with Pres. Obama on Afghanistan. We should have a speedy withdrawal. Why should we keep wasting our money -- rebuild the U.S.!"

• Mar. 1, 2013: "We should leave Afghanistan immediately. No more wasted lives. If we have to go back in, we go in hard & quick. Rebuild the US first."

• Nov. 21, 2013: "We have wasted an enormous amount of blood and treasure in Afghanistan. Their government has zero appreciation. Let's get out!"

• Nov. 21, 2013: "Do not allow our very stupid leaders to sign a deal that keeps us in Afghanistan through 2024-with all costs by U.S.A. MAKE AMERICA GREAT!"

So really, Trump's biggest problem is what Trump has said about this. Was he right then, or is he right now? Because after spending years undermining what PResident Obama was trying to do, now it's his mess.

Don't worry. He'll fuck it up as badly as he's fucking up the Hurricane response.

But since there still seems some people that have very little common sense and are so naive that I have to put in smaller chunks what exactly the rescinding of this truly dangerous ROE means to our troops now.
Obama's politically motivate ROE that states: "Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force."

Again, why are we trying to hold villages the Afghan Security Forces can't be bothered with?

The ROE isn't the problem. The problem is- and I know you are kind of dopey - is that we don't belong there.

It's a civil war, and we're backing the losing side.

So to be as clear as possible... Obama's ROE was to protect civilians NOT the US Soldier. In doing so this politically driven decision meant the bad guys, ISIS et.al. KNEW that they could go into an area take over the area because..WHY??? The US soldiers might have to kill the bad guys and that was NOT NICE!

I'm still waiting to hear how killing civilians to hold a three goat village in Afghanistan is in our greater national interest.

"Dammit, those our OUR goats!!!! Murica! Murica!"

I really don't understand how something so simple as abolishing the ROE that kept the US soldier from doing his job is hard to understand?
The bad guys knew the US Soldier would NOT use "Lethal force" because the US Soldier was ORDERED NOT TO!

They shouldn't be engaging in combat at all. When they do, they become another foreign invader to be driven out, and Afghanistan has been doing that since Alexander the Great.

NOt to worry, when the Helicopters are lifting people off the embassy roof on Trump's watch, you'll find a way to blame Obama.