Return to Natural, Edenic Paradise? Not So Fast, even in "protected" areas

Return to Natural, Edenic Paradise?

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JBG

Liberal democrat
Jan 8, 2012
394
241
193
New York City area
Can we, even in National Parks and wilderness areas, restore a pre-(white man) settlement Eden in the New World? I don't think so.

I recently finished reading The Return of Wolves: An Iconic Predator’s Struggle to Survive in the American West by Eli Francovich. This book focuses on unique conditions (maybe not so unique) in eastern Washington state. Closer to where I live, we have an apparent beginning of a return of wolves to upstate New York, see Wolves Return to New York Adirondacks? (probably).

This subject has always been a favorite of mine. Unlike many "nature" books, this author recognizes that that wolves are not an unmixed blessing to the wild.

Eastern Washington State, and to a lesser extent Montana, Oregon and northern California are an interesting amalgam of a conservative, anti-wolf minority ensconced in deeply liberal, urban-dominated states. This author makes the point, interestingly, that wolves may never have been as abundant as mythologized. After American Indian populations were severely reduced by epidemics of smallpox and other diseases, buffalo and wolf populations apparently had a temporary explosion, terminated by the spread of white man through the Plains and mountains to the West. Reproducing pre-settlement conditions may be impossible, since the Native Americans are missing as the ultimate keystone predator. The American Indians kept prey and thus wolf populations in check. This is more thoroughly discussed in the book 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann. Pre-Columbian America was far from an Edenic ideal, see the excellent book War Before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage by Lawrence H. Keeley.
 
You need to find you a way-back machine.

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Why would anyone even want to return the country to it's pre-civilzation state? Nature is an unforgiving bitch who wants nothing less than to kill you. That's why someone invented guns.
 
Why would anyone even want to return the country to it's pre-civilzation state? Nature is an unforgiving bitch who wants nothing less than to kill you. That's why someone invented guns.
The immediate problem is that “natural“ areas such as Yellowstone were infested by elk and deer. Something had to be done to control them.
 
Forget Edenic .

Look up Pre Adamite and mull the implications .
 
There has never been an Edenic time on earth.
Predators, of all kind, are everywhere. Mostly insects.
Some of the most beautiful, paradise like, environs on earth are absolutely flooded with biting insects.
Literally to the point of driving people to madness in one single night.
And is exactly why most of the most temperate, beautiful places on earth are uninhabited.
 
There has never been an Edenic time on earth.
Predators, of all kind, are everywhere. Mostly insects.
Some of the most beautiful, paradise like, environs on earth are absolutely flooded with biting insects.
Literally to the point of driving people to madness in one single night.
And is exactly why most of the most temperate, beautiful places on earth are uninhabited.

That's why we made DDT.
 
My Bible says humans lived in Eden ... so any idyllic Garden of Eden will contain humans and their waste products ...

The OP only makes reference to whities ... actually specified "restore a pre-(white man) settlement Eden" ... when the great extinctions here in America happened when humans crossed the Bearing Land Bridge ≈ 15,000 years ago ... the aboriginals brought fire with them and burned all the forests ... every single one ... and regrew these lands for the benefit of hunting ...

Long before whities got here ... Yuval Harari lays out this theory really well in his book Sapiens ...
 
There's probably a balance that needs to be struck. The question isn't should we be good stewards. The question should be what do good stewards look like. Hence, a balance needs to be struck.
 
My Bible says humans lived in Eden ... so any idyllic Garden of Eden will contain humans and their waste products ...

The OP only makes reference to whities ... actually specified "restore a pre-(white man) settlement Eden" ... when the great extinctions here in America happened when humans crossed the Bearing Land Bridge ≈ 15,000 years ago ... the aboriginals brought fire with them and burned all the forests ... every single one ... and regrew these lands for the benefit of hunting ...

Long before whities got here ... Yuval Harari lays out this theory really well in his book Sapiens ...
Actually the OP referred to War Before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage by Lawrence H. Keeley. That book had nothing to do with "whities."
 
There's probably a balance that needs to be struck. The question isn't should we be good stewards. The question should be what do good stewards look like. Hence, a balance needs to be struck.
This is a correct take. Nature is not just some unforgiving menace that seems to destroy humankind, but rather nature is something we are inseparably a part of and it is from nature that we arise. Without nature there isn't an us.
 
My Bible says humans lived in Eden ... so any idyllic Garden of Eden will contain humans and their waste products ...

The OP only makes reference to whities ... actually specified "restore a pre-(white man) settlement Eden" ... when the great extinctions here in America happened when humans crossed the Bearing Land Bridge ≈ 15,000 years ago ... the aboriginals brought fire with them and burned all the forests ... every single one ... and regrew these lands for the benefit of hunting ...

Long before whities got here ... Yuval Harari lays out this theory really well in his book Sapiens ...
Where did you get "burned all the forests"?
 

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