Retired firefighter found guilty for shooting at lost black teen on doorstep

[Camp]

He overreacted, but I saw the video and he clearly points the barrel UP. He's in his house and his wife is freaking out. Seems like a nice kid but he was in a strict technical sense, trespassing. I don't see how you charge the homeowner/shooter with anything.

He was not trespassing. You do not understand trespassing laws. A person must be asked to leave a property and refuse the request or ignore a sign before a trespass charge can be made.

 

[Montrovant]

He overreacted, but I saw the video and he clearly points the barrel UP. He's in his house and his wife is freaking out. Seems like a nice kid but he was in a strict technical sense, trespassing. I don't see how you charge the homeowner/shooter with anything.

He was not trespassing. You do not understand trespassing laws. A person must be asked to leave a property and refuse the request or ignore a sign before a trespass charge can be made.

This is what I found for Michigan trespass law:

Compiled Laws, Chapter 750. Michigan Penal Code § 750.552 | FindLaw

 

[Freiheit]

There is no such thing as an accidental discharge with modern firearms. Unless one is being attacked or threatened self defense is not an issue. Zeigler was irresponsible and is paying for it.

YOu obviously know nothing about firearms.

There is no such thing as an accidental discharge with modern firearms. Unless one is being attacked or threatened self defense is not an issue. Zeigler was irresponsible and is paying for it.

YOu obviously know nothing about firearms.

You are obviously a dim wit. Modern firearms have been designed to eliminate what is termed accidental discharge. Operator error is the cause of "accidental discharge" with modern firearms. How many spontainious discharges have been recorded with modernm firearms?
Never put a finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire eliminates "accidental discharge".
Modern firearms do not fire themselves. I'll bet you are a real trip at the range, that is if you have ever been.

 

[Camp]

He overreacted, but I saw the video and he clearly points the barrel UP. He's in his house and his wife is freaking out. Seems like a nice kid but he was in a strict technical sense, trespassing. I don't see how you charge the homeowner/shooter with anything.

He was not trespassing. You do not understand trespassing laws. A person must be asked to leave a property and refuse the request or ignore a sign before a trespass charge can be made.

This is what I found for Michigan trespass law:

Compiled Laws, Chapter 750. Michigan Penal Code § 750.552 | FindLaw

A non-obstructed (no gate ) walkway leading to a door/entrance is assumed to represent permission to approach and use a door knock or doorbell unless signage indicates otherwise. On any property not properly marked as restricted with signage or barriers, a property owner is obligated to inform a person that a property is private and ask them to leave the property in question. Refusal to leave subjects the person to a trespass charge.
Without a gate and signs, you are inviting people to approach your door and knock on your door or ring your doorbell.

 

[Montrovant]

There is no such thing as an accidental discharge with modern firearms. Unless one is being attacked or threatened self defense is not an issue. Zeigler was irresponsible and is paying for it.

YOu obviously know nothing about firearms.

There is no such thing as an accidental discharge with modern firearms. Unless one is being attacked or threatened self defense is not an issue. Zeigler was irresponsible and is paying for it.

YOu obviously know nothing about firearms.

You are obviously a dim wit. Modern firearms have been designed to eliminate what is termed accidental discharge. Operator error is the cause of "accidental discharge" with modern firearms. How many spontainious discharges have been recorded with modernm firearms?
Never put a finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire eliminates "accidental discharge".
Modern firearms do not fire themselves. I'll bet you are a real trip at the range, that is if you have ever been.

Well, there is the Remington 700, and other Remington guns using what may be a defective trigger: Popular Remington 700 rifle linked to potentially deadly defect

Remington Trigger Recall

I would think and hope that Remington issue is an aberration, of course.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Blacks are always guilty of something -- this verdict is an outrage

Hopefully this guy get a reduced sentence or maybe probation -- Trump should put pressure on them to get this done.

Trump could pardon him I understand.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

There are details you leave out..l

1. His wife was downstairs screaming that someone was trying to break into the house.

I highly doubt he was "looking for directions."

2. He ran downstairs with the shotgun, RAISED IT UP, then lowered it when he saw the thief running away. The gun discharged accidentally. The thief was never in any danger.

He's paying a high price BECAUSE HE BE WHITE, and the thief is black.

And this is why one of the other rules of safe firearm handling states "keep your finger off of the trigger until your sights are on your target and you're ready to shoot".

Luckily for this young man he's a crappy shot, but shooting a person who is running away is not lawful, if he had indeed broken into his home then yeah he would have been within his rights but in this case he was not.

Maybe he also wouldn't be in this current situation if he hadn't married a stupid, racist twit.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

He overreacted, but I saw the video and he clearly points the barrel UP. He's in his house and his wife is freaking out. Seems like a nice kid but he was in a strict technical sense, trespassing. I don't see how you charge the homeowner/shooter with anything.

I actually totally agree with this, but he WASNT dressed as a clean cut "white boy" like he is in the interview.

Home invasions and robberies occur using an innocent looking "kid" or a woman to cause you to drop your guard. This is Pontiac, MI. It has a very high black population (50% black, 25% white, 16% Hispanic), meaning the usual crap happens there that happens anywhere with a high black population. Whites living in these areas know what goes on in these neighborhoods.

Except it's not Pontiac. This took place in Rochester Hills, a town that is only 5% black. U.S. Census Bureau QuickFacts: Rochester Hills city, Michigan

Your obvious attempt to try to make this about blacks, and somehow the fault of the kid, has failed miserably.

You're right about where it occurred.

But it is still about blacks. Every article makes it about blacks.

Zeigler's wife called the police, reporting that "a black male was trying to break into her house and her husband chased after him into the yard

A jury convicted a white Michigan man of assault on Friday for firing a shotgun at a black teen

This was a very bad, racist decision. He'll get a mandatory 2 years THEN up to 10 years in prison for self-defense.

Self-defense plays NO part in this incident.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I lived almost a mile and a half from my high school. I WALKED there and back every day. Not once did I ever have to stop and "axe" directions. Is this kid mentally "challenged" or a liar?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Self-defense plays NO part in this incident

In the eyes of the man startled from his sleep by his wife screaming that someone was breaking into the house, it does.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I remember a few years ago, Renisha McBride was shot in the head while knocking on a man's door for help -- I remember how folks like the people on this very thread were demonizing this woman, calling her a thug, saying she had it coming.

The racists didn't get their way in that case...The man was convicted.


Homeowner Who Shot And Killed A Girl On His Porch Found Guilty Of Murder

most decent people agreed with that verdict
it shows you joined in 2018---
that shooting was 2013
?
''folks like on USMB''?

Lol @ most decent people agreed

Most decent people were also not saying she had it coming...I don't need to have been here in 2013 to see what you idiots are trying to do to this kid in 2018

All it takes for you folks is to claim the black person was scary to justify killing them

wow--you are a hater and racist--that's undeniable

No, that's a mirror you're looking at.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I actually totally agree with this, but he WASNT dressed as a clean cut "white boy" like he is in the interview.

Home invasions and robberies occur using an innocent looking "kid" or a woman to cause you to drop your guard. This is Pontiac, MI. It has a very high black population (50% black, 25% white, 16% Hispanic), meaning the usual crap happens there that happens anywhere with a high black population. Whites living in these areas know what goes on in these neighborhoods.

Except it's not Pontiac. This took place in Rochester Hills, a town that is only 5% black. U.S. Census Bureau QuickFacts: Rochester Hills city, Michigan

Your obvious attempt to try to make this about blacks, and somehow the fault of the kid, has failed miserably.

again how do you not know your way to school?
no cell phone? what 14 year old does not have a cell phone?

could be good reasons for this but still valid questions i hope were covered in court.

Maybe he’s never had to walk to the school before.

He might not know every street to turn on to get there.

Not every family can necessarily afford to have cell phones for everyone.

None of that is relevant to the case given the fact that the racist shitbag was shooting at a person who was running away.

when i rode the bus i still knew how to walk to school.

why was he opening the screen door then?

again could be goodxreasons maybe not. dunno. but im not calling people i dont know racist shitbags cause it suits my own agenda.

It should be easy to find out who this kid is.......if he is a criminal, he will be a criminal in the future...if anyone follows his life going forward...

What?!? We already know who he is, you're suggesting putting a black child under surveillance for the rest of his life?

 

[BigTruck]

Except it's not Pontiac. This took place in Rochester Hills, a town that is only 5% black. U.S. Census Bureau QuickFacts: Rochester Hills city, Michigan

Your obvious attempt to try to make this about blacks, and somehow the fault of the kid, has failed miserably.

again how do you not know your way to school?
no cell phone? what 14 year old does not have a cell phone?

could be good reasons for this but still valid questions i hope were covered in court.

Maybe he’s never had to walk to the school before.

He might not know every street to turn on to get there.

Not every family can necessarily afford to have cell phones for everyone.

None of that is relevant to the case given the fact that the racist shitbag was shooting at a person who was running away.

when i rode the bus i still knew how to walk to school.

why was he opening the screen door then?

again could be goodxreasons maybe not. dunno. but im not calling people i dont know racist shitbags cause it suits my own agenda.

The racist shitbag shot a human being who was running away. Why do you think that’s okay?

I wonder why.

did i ever say it was ok?

no.

******* drama llamas.

You apparently think it is okay because you only seem focused on the kid not knowing how to get to school and why he doesn’t have a cell phone.

The racist shitbag shot at a human being who was running away. How is anything else relevant?

 

[harmonica]

I remember a few years ago, Renisha McBride was shot in the head while knocking on a man's door for help -- I remember how folks like the people on this very thread were demonizing this woman, calling her a thug, saying she had it coming.

The racists didn't get their way in that case...The man was convicted.


Homeowner Who Shot And Killed A Girl On His Porch Found Guilty Of Murder

most decent people agreed with that verdict
it shows you joined in 2018---
that shooting was 2013
?
''folks like on USMB''?

Lol @ most decent people agreed

Most decent people were also not saying she had it coming...I don't need to have been here in 2013 to see what you idiots are trying to do to this kid in 2018

All it takes for you folks is to claim the black person was scary to justify killing them

wow--you are a hater and racist--that's undeniable

No, that's a mirror you're looking at.

hahaha--once again, we have people calling people racist with NO evidence and of course saying blacks can't be racist
hahahah--very dumb, unrealistic and racist thinking

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The white vs black narrative is foolish.

Take it up with the reporter

 

[dave p]

The white vs black narrative is foolish.

Take it up with the reporter

No thanks. Just making a comment. Obviously the reporter is an idiot.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Self-defense plays NO part in this incident

In the eyes of the man startled from his sleep by his wife screaming that someone was breaking into the house, it does.

Well that just shows their stupidity. Most normal people know that you can not LAWFULLY go around shooting at people who are running away from you. Not even the police can do that except in very limited circumstances. They had a security camara in which you can clearly see what is going on outside. All they had to do was not answer the door and call the police if they really thought he was trying to break in while keeping the shotgun trained on the door. How smart is it to open your door to someone you think is a criminal even if you do have a weapon? There's no guarantee that the person at the door if he were a criminal doesn't have one too and the homeowner could end up getting shot.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, not for you or them.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I remember a few years ago, Renisha McBride was shot in the head while knocking on a man's door for help -- I remember how folks like the people on this very thread were demonizing this woman, calling her a thug, saying she had it coming.

The racists didn't get their way in that case...The man was convicted.


Homeowner Who Shot And Killed A Girl On His Porch Found Guilty Of Murder

most decent people agreed with that verdict
it shows you joined in 2018---
that shooting was 2013
?
''folks like on USMB''?

Lol @ most decent people agreed

Most decent people were also not saying she had it coming...I don't need to have been here in 2013 to see what you idiots are trying to do to this kid in 2018

All it takes for you folks is to claim the black person was scary to justify killing them

wow--you are a hater and racist--that's undeniable

No, that's a mirror you're looking at.

hahaha--once again, we have people calling people racist with NO evidence and of course saying blacks can't be racist
hahahah--very dumb, unrealistic and racist thinking

Says the resident half-wit. No my comments are based on your history of commenting since I've been here on U.S. Message Boards.

Why haven't you mentioned that blacks graduate at a lower rates than whites today? You had a pretty good run going on in which you mentioned this tidbit on a daily basis for what, at least a month?

 

[Freiheit]

There is no such thing as an accidental discharge with modern firearms. Unless one is being attacked or threatened self defense is not an issue. Zeigler was irresponsible and is paying for it.

YOu obviously know nothing about firearms.

There is no such thing as an accidental discharge with modern firearms. Unless one is being attacked or threatened self defense is not an issue. Zeigler was irresponsible and is paying for it.

YOu obviously know nothing about firearms.

You are obviously a dim wit. Modern firearms have been designed to eliminate what is termed accidental discharge. Operator error is the cause of "accidental discharge" with modern firearms. How many spontainious discharges have been recorded with modernm firearms?
Never put a finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire eliminates "accidental discharge".
Modern firearms do not fire themselves. I'll bet you are a real trip at the range, that is if you have ever been.

Well, there is the Remington 700, and other Remington guns using what may be a defective trigger: Popular Remington 700 rifle linked to potentially deadly defect

Remington Trigger Recall

I would think and hope that Remington issue is an aberration, of course.

After a bit of research the I found the law suit and its result remain controversial. The source you posted is less than unbiased. CNBC carried on a campaign against Remington about the model 700 from 2010. However the most telling information about the Remington 700, it is and remains the most used sniper rifle in the US military and the military of 14 other countries and according to the American Sniper Association is the most popular long range rifle of US police and SWAT teams. If spontaineous discharge were a problem I doubt that would be true. I reiterate spontaineous discharge in modern firearms is so rare as to be anomalous.

 

[Montrovant]

There is no such thing as an accidental discharge with modern firearms. Unless one is being attacked or threatened self defense is not an issue. Zeigler was irresponsible and is paying for it.

YOu obviously know nothing about firearms.

There is no such thing as an accidental discharge with modern firearms. Unless one is being attacked or threatened self defense is not an issue. Zeigler was irresponsible and is paying for it.

YOu obviously know nothing about firearms.

You are obviously a dim wit. Modern firearms have been designed to eliminate what is termed accidental discharge. Operator error is the cause of "accidental discharge" with modern firearms. How many spontainious discharges have been recorded with modernm firearms?
Never put a finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire eliminates "accidental discharge".
Modern firearms do not fire themselves. I'll bet you are a real trip at the range, that is if you have ever been.

Well, there is the Remington 700, and other Remington guns using what may be a defective trigger: Popular Remington 700 rifle linked to potentially deadly defect

Remington Trigger Recall

I would think and hope that Remington issue is an aberration, of course.

After a bit of research the I found the law suit and its result remain controversial. The source you posted is less than unbiased. CNBC carried on a campaign against Remington about the model 700 from 2010. However the most telling information about the Remington 700, it is and remains the most used sniper rifle in the US military and the military of 14 other countries and according to the American Sniper Association is the most popular long range rifle of US police and SWAT teams. If spontaineous discharge were a problem I doubt that would be true. I reiterate spontaineous discharge in modern firearms is so rare as to be anomalous.

From what I have read from multiple sources, there have been multiple lawsuits against Remington about faulty trigger mechanisms resulting in firing without touching the trigger, not to mention settlements and, supposedly, internal documents saying that Remington was aware of the issue and did nothing about it. People have said the issue tends to occur in the cold, although I'm not sure why that would be.

If you look at the Remington Trigger Recall link I provided, it says that Remington actually recalled some of their firearms because of the possibility they could accidentally discharge due to an issue with the X-Mark Pro trigger. It's more than just one incident or suit with Remington.

I'm not claiming this is a common occurrence, I'm just pointing out that sometimes even modern firearms can accidentally discharge.