Republicans Such A Disappointment

[JimofPennsylvan]

Observing Republicans post election behavior has been an extreme disappointment especially to many of us who are independent Republicans and care deeply about the Republican party and America. What is so disappointing is that collectively Republican leaders are still the leaders whose behavior indicates they don’t really care about the middle class and working people. To hear the post-election comments of Republican governors at the recent Republican governors’ convention and other Republican elected officials talk about what has gone wrong with the Republican party is sickening. To sum up the lessons they believe they have learned from the last two elections involves two general lessons. First, they say the Republican party lost their way from their fundamental ideals like protect free markets, no deficit spending, less government interference, small government, lower taxes, etc. and second the Republican Party needs new ideas to attract more citizens to join their party. From a no nonsense person’s perspective the message we are hearing is, first, if Republican leaders were put back into power they would continue to not do right by working people and the middle class with their application in a vacuum of their conservative ideals and second these leaders in being faced with the reality of a lack of popular support are looking for wedge issues to pull people into the Republican party (there is not this fundamental commitment to the middle class and working Americans which is needed) Part of the problem with the present Republican party leadership’s current thinking is that they have this extensive list of conservative ideals and they think supporting this list is what it means to be a Republican, they don’t consider that the Democrats have legitimate claims to many of these ideals and it is not narrow minded or in a vacuum application of these ideals which is needed. The essence of the Republican Party at least as it has existed post World War II is simply that it starts its analysis on the issues from a business, wealthy American vantage point (as opposed to the working person, middle class vantage point) and it starts its analysis on the issues from the vantage point that small government is the goal (and government should only get involved if there is truly good reason to). What many of these Republican leaders seem to forget is that what is of optimal importance for the party is not these conservative ideals but rather having the right positions on the numerous specific issues facing America. Again, having the right position on the specific issues requires having positions which do right by working people and the middle class in America. The Republican party leadership need not worry though they will be given plenty of experiences from now on where they will be given the opportunity to learn the importance of this value and the importance of living by it and they will likely find that being out of power which they will likely be for a long period of time will cause them to likely never forget it.

On the only two major issues facing Washington on behalf of the America people post-election, the Republicans in Congress and the White House have failed miserably, their behavior has been a vintage example on why they are out of power. On the bail out of the U.S. automakers issue, collectively Republicans have been saying things like America needs to stand for free market principles let the marketplace handle the U.S. automaker problem and businesses go bankrupt everyday others rise to take their place (like an automaker is like a restaurant). On a modest stimulus package this year, collectively Republicans are like we have to stop this deficit spending, the government’s job isn’t to go around rescuing or saving everybody. It is all vintage Republicanism where they stake out positions on specific issues which clearly uphold conservative ideals and ignore the full effects of these positions, it is not good and it offers no successful long-term future for the Republican party or America.

Let me explain how a good Republican views these issues. On the U.S. automaker bailout issue, if the government doesn’t offer these automakers a good credit line, GM and Chrysler will definitely go into bankruptcy because they are on the brink and if GM and Chrysler goes into bankruptcy the last U.S. automaker, Ford, will almost certainly because they don’t have enough cash to ride out this recession to the economy recovers which looks like 2010 and even if the cash flow issue doesn’t get them the supplier problem will get them (GM, Chrysler & Ford share suppliers and bankruptcy for any one will likely destabilize the supplier network causing sever obstruction to the operation of all three businesses) plus if one U.S. automaker goes into bankruptcy their will be an unresistable pull for the other two to go into bankruptcy to unload all their burdensome financial problems to remain long-term competitive like their costs for retirees, overly expensive and uncompetitive labor agreements, excessive costly dealership networks, etc. It may be the only viable option for the American people to let the U.S. automakers go into bankruptcy and off load unreasonable burdens and restructure so they can become long-term profitable companies but that option should be a last resort option because that option will result in the long-term loss of a huge number of good middle class jobs that currently esists and potentially exists as U.S. automakers will be permanently resigned to significantly less U.S. automarket market share. This is the case because if the U.S. automakers go into bankruptcy, likely Chrysler will be liquidated because in the competitive automotive marketplace Chrysler doesn’t have strong enough brands or models or models in the pipeline ready to go for creditors to prudently take a chance on them succeeding long-term. GM and Ford will likely survive bankruptcy because of their strong brands but they will be forced to shrink excessively in size by their creditors to guarantee their long-term survival and in the process many jobs will be lost and forever U.S. automakers will have lost their historic market share and the middle class jobs that go with it. This garbage that is thrown around that so what if U.S, automakers lose market share because foreign automakers manufacture automobiles in the U.S. creating U.S. jobs belongs in a garbage can where garbage belongs. First foreign automakers don’t use as many U.S. made parts in their automobiles as U.S. automakers thus not producing as many U.S. jobs. Secondly, when these foreign automakers experience inevitable business downturns what plants do you think their going to first cut back on plants in their home country or U.S. plants you got it U.S. plants and this is especially true if one focuses on the track record of the home countries of many of these foreign automakers where protecting domestic interests gets top priority. Thirdly, these foreign automakers don’t do as well as U.S. automakers with respect to health insurance benefits which is important; the America people can support UAW workers having good health insurance benefits, the problem with the current UAW health insurance benefit package as far as the American people are concerned is that it is a Cadillac package, it is unreasonable their isn’t the reasonable mechanisms to hold down costs (continual copays) there isn’t a reasonable meaningful sharing of the premium burden.

On the U.S. automaker rescue, Republicans should be advocating like the Democrats that the U.S. automakers produce a turn around plan before Washington will throw a life line. Republicans should be calling for not a standoffish, all the burden on the U.S. automakers to produce an acceptable plan, position. Rather, the Republicans should be calling for Washington to assemble a team of experts to draft what a plan should look like in terms of unions modifying their agreements to reasonableness in terms of health benefits and the job bank rule or whatever it is where workers get paid 95% of their salary when they don’t work and other anticompetitive labor rules; U.S. automaker management having to forego unreasonably high compensation packages ($17 plus million dollars per year is ridiculous), having a plan in place to extend credit to customers that is not as excessively cautious as your lending arms currently have come up with a private banking sector or government solution, mothballing production to meet demand in a better fashion than which is currently being done, etc. The Republicans should be advocating that Washington fight with the automakers and their unions and their creditors to accept this long-term viable and reasonable plan, doesn’t the U.S. government have the power to force some of these items through by enactment of law or taking these businesses into conservatorship. With the present course of things, Congressional leaders might as well turn off the light and heat in the Capitol because there isn’t a chance in hell that the automakers will put forth an acceptable plan by December 2 or by January 19th 2009 for that matter.

Republicans should not advocate using the $25 billion already authorized for U.S. automakers to build the cars of the future for this credit line, these monies should be kept for this critical purpose, nor should they advocate using the TARP $700 billion monies (when the foreclosure crisis gets under control [because there is no point otherwise because securities can’t be accurately valued] the government should use this money for its original purpose of getting the 2 trillion dollars of these assets currently parked on financial institutions booked off their books and replaced with cash so they can lend). One could expound for hours on the ridiculousness of the Federal government arguing over a $25 billion or $50 billlion credit line to save this vital industry with all the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars they have loaned out over the past three months and intend to in the near future. In any event if the Federal government wants to be smart they can dramatically lessen the Federal governments liability on this credit line by just providing explicit government backing on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac securities (require an interest ceiling on these securities close to Treasuries so they aren’t getting a windfall) this will increase Fannie and Freddie’s profit margin saving the Government having to loan them easily $25 plus billion over the nest year and it will lower new buyers of homes mortgage interest rates. The Federal government shouldn’t be pinching pennies in the amount of this credit line as long as it is under $50 billion because of the critical long-term middle class jobs stakes on the line in this matter and just in mentioning the $300 billion stimulus package it will likely pass next year really makes this $50 billion figure seem paltry in comparison. Again, it may be the best long-term option to let the U.S. automakers go into bankruptcy but there is a huge huge fight that needs to take place in America before we get to that decision.

 

[WillowTree]

Get back to us when you see any Republicans standing knee deep in the ditches with "I'm sorry" sign hung round our necks and crocodile tears flowing down our cheeks.. yep you do that.

 

[editec]

Observing Republicans post election behavior has been an extreme disappointment especially to many of us who are independent Republicans and care deeply about the Republican party and America. What is so disappointing is that collectively Republican leaders are still the leaders whose behavior indicates they don’t really care about the middle class and working people.

As far as I can recall, the Republican Party has always cared more about the affluent classes than the working classes. What alarms me is their apparent indifference to the nation's well being generally in the last thirty years or so. That IS new, as far as I can tell.

To hear the post-election comments of Republican governors at the recent Republican governors’ convention and other Republican elected officials talk about what has gone wrong with the Republican party is sickening. To sum up the lessons they believe they have learned from the last two elections involves two general lessons. First, they say the Republican party lost their way from their fundamental ideals like protect free markets, no deficit spending, less government interference, small government, lower taxes, etc. and second the Republican Party needs new ideas to attract more citizens to join their party.

Yeah, that's right. They are still thinking that they can convince enough Americans that shit is shinola.

And they still do have the hearts and minds of plenty of people, too, don't they?

We read posts of people here who completely agree that bqankrupting this nation's government is a good thing, do we not?

We read posts of people here who honestly DO THINK, that the reason this nation is going down is because of unions, too.

We still read from people here how what we need is less regulation and more FREE TRADE, do we not?

The Republican base is entirely dependent on the convincing people that GOVERNMENT IS BAD CAPITALISM UNBRIDLED IS GOOD.

And we read post after post here that proves that their message has taken hold of at least a LOT of people.

From a no nonsense person’s perspective the message we are hearing is, first, if Republican leaders were put back into power they would continue to not do right by working people and the middle class with their application in a vacuum of their conservative ideals and second these leaders in being faced with the reality of a lack of popular support are looking for wedge issues to pull people into the Republican party (there is not this fundamental commitment to the middle class and working Americans which is needed) Part of the problem with the present Republican party leadership’s current thinking is that they have this extensive list of conservative ideals and they think supporting this list is what it means to be a Republican, they don’t consider that the Democrats have legitimate claims to many of these ideals and it is not narrow minded or in a vacuum application of these ideals which is needed.

A reality based pragmatist who is ALSO a Republican must be very disappointed with their party.

Likewise a reality based pragmatist who is a DEMOCRAT must be pretty damned sick of their party, too.

AFter all, the unholy allience of BOTH parties was necessary for our nation to go from where it was in about 1970 to where it is today.

The essence of the Republican Party at least as it has existed post World War II is simply that it starts its analysis on the issues from a business, wealthy American vantage point (as opposed to the working person, middle class vantage point) and it starts its analysis on the issues from the vantage point that small government is the goal (and government should only get involved if there is truly good reason to).

Well that's what they said, but that seldom what they really did.

What many of these Republican leaders seem to forget is that what is of optimal importance for the party is not these conservative ideals but rather having the right positions on the numerous specific issues facing America. Again, having the right position on the specific issues requires having positions which do right by working people and the middle class in America. The Republican party leadership need not worry though they will be given plenty of experiences from now on where they will be given the opportunity to learn the importance of this value and the importance of living by it and they will likely find that being out of power which they will likely be for a long period of time will cause them to likely never forget it.

Here I disagree with you. The outcome of elections mostly happens on the margins and the marginal swing voters don't seem to have a memory.

On the only two major issues facing Washington on behalf of the America people post-election, the Republicans in Congress and the White House have failed miserably, their behavior has been a vintage example on why they are out of power. On the bail out of the U.S. automakers issue, collectively Republicans have been saying things like America needs to stand for free market principles let the marketplace handle the U.S. automaker problem and businesses go bankrupt everyday others rise to take their place (like an automaker is like a restaurant).

Yeah, that's right. The classism of the Republican party is fairly obvious isn't it?

They bailed out the banks but are telling blue collar workers in industry to go pound sand.

On a modest stimulus package this year, collectively Republicans are like we have to stop this deficit spending, the government’s job isn’t to go around rescuing or saving everybody. It is all vintage Republicanism where they stake out positions on specific issues which clearly uphold conservative ideals and ignore the full effects of these positions, it is not good and it offers no successful long-term future for the Republican party or America.

They claim an ideaological high ground which they abandon whenever it suits the interest of the extrmely monied class, that's obvious.

Let me explain how a good Republican views these issues. On the U.S. automaker bailout issue, if the government doesn’t offer these automakers a good credit line, GM and Chrysler will definitely go into bankruptcy because they are on the brink and if GM and Chrysler goes into bankruptcy the last U.S. automaker, Ford, will almost certainly because they don’t have enough cash to ride out this recession to the economy recovers which looks like 2010 and even if the cash flow issue doesn’t get them the supplier problem will get them (GM, Chrysler & Ford share suppliers and bankruptcy for any one will likely destabilize the supplier network causing sever obstruction to the operation of all three businesses) plus if one U.S. automaker goes into bankruptcy their will be an unresistable pull for the other two to go into bankruptcy to unload all their burdensome financial problems to remain long-term competitive like their costs for retirees, overly expensive and uncompetitive labor agreements, excessive costly dealership networks, etc. It may be the only viable option for the American people to let the U.S. automakers go into bankruptcy and off load unreasonable burdens and restructure so they can become long-term profitable companies but that option should be a last resort option because that option will result in the long-term loss of a huge number of good middle class jobs that currently esists and potentially exists as U.S. automakers will be permanently resigned to significantly less U.S. automarket market share. This is the case because if the U.S. automakers go into bankruptcy, likely Chrysler will be liquidated because in the competitive automotive marketplace Chrysler doesn’t have strong enough brands or models or models in the pipeline ready to go for creditors to prudently take a chance on them succeeding long-term. GM and Ford will likely survive bankruptcy because of their strong brands but they will be forced to shrink excessively in size by their creditors to guarantee their long-term survival and in the process many jobs will be lost and forever U.S. automakers will have lost their historic market share and the middle class jobs that go with it. This garbage that is thrown around that so what if U.S, automakers lose market share because foreign automakers manufacture automobiles in the U.S. creating U.S. jobs belongs in a garbage can where garbage belongs. First foreign automakers don’t use as many U.S. made parts in their automobiles as U.S. automakers thus not producing as many U.S. jobs. Secondly, when these foreign automakers experience inevitable business downturns what plants do you think their going to first cut back on plants in their home country or U.S. plants you got it U.S. plants and this is especially true if one focuses on the track record of the home countries of many of these foreign automakers where protecting domestic interests gets top priority. Thirdly, these foreign automakers don’t do as well as U.S. automakers with respect to health insurance benefits which is important; the America people can support UAW workers having good health insurance benefits, the problem with the current UAW health insurance benefit package as far as the American people are concerned is that it is a Cadillac package, it is unreasonable their isn’t the reasonable mechanisms to hold down costs (continual copays) there isn’t a reasonable meaningful sharing of the premium burden.

You sure in hell sound like a labor Democrat, amigo.

On the U.S. automaker rescue, Republicans should be advocating like the Democrats that the U.S. automakers produce a turn around plan before Washington will throw a life line. Republicans should be calling for not a standoffish, all the burden on the U.S. automakers to produce an acceptable plan, position. Rather, the Republicans should be calling for Washington to assemble a team of experts to draft what a plan should look like in terms of unions modifying their agreements to reasonableness in terms of health benefits and the job bank rule or whatever it is where workers get paid 95% of their salary when they don’t work and other anticompetitive labor rules; U.S. automaker management having to forego unreasonably high compensation packages ($17 plus million dollars per year is ridiculous), having a plan in place to extend credit to customers that is not as excessively cautious as your lending arms currently have come up with a private banking sector or government solution, mothballing production to meet demand in a better fashion than which is currently being done, etc. The Republicans should be advocating that Washington fight with the automakers and their unions and their creditors to accept this long-term viable and reasonable plan, doesn’t the U.S. government have the power to force some of these items through by enactment of law or taking these businesses into conservatorship. With the present course of things, Congressional leaders might as well turn off the light and heat in the Capitol because there isn’t a chance in hell that the automakers will put forth an acceptable plan by December 2 or by January 19th 2009 for that matter.

The only question is do the Republicans in Congress and the White House really give a shit about how America does?

I continue to think they do not. I continue to think their real agenda is to bankrupt the USA.

Republicans should not advocate using the $25 billion already authorized for U.S. automakers to build the cars of the future for this credit line, these monies should be kept for this critical purpose, nor should they advocate using the TARP $700 billion monies (when the foreclosure crisis gets under control [because there is no point otherwise because securities can’t be accurately valued] the government should use this money for its original purpose of getting the 2 trillion dollars of these assets currently parked on financial institutions booked off their books and replaced with cash so they can lend). One could expound for hours on the ridiculousness of the Federal government arguing over a $25 billion or $50 billlion credit line to save this vital industry with all the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars they have loaned out over the past three months and intend to in the near future. In any event if the Federal government wants to be smart they can dramatically lessen the Federal governments liability on this credit line by just providing explicit government backing on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac securities (require an interest ceiling on these securities close to Treasuries so they aren’t getting a windfall) this will increase Fannie and Freddie’s profit margin saving the Government having to loan them easily $25 plus billion over the nest year and it will lower new buyers of homes mortgage interest rates. The Federal government shouldn’t be pinching pennies in the amount of this credit line as long as it is under $50 billion because of the critical long-term middle class jobs stakes on the line in this matter and just in mentioning the $300 billion stimulus package it will likely pass next year really makes this $50 billion figure seem paltry in comparison. Again, it may be the best long-term option to let the U.S. automakers go into bankruptcy but there is a huge huge fight that needs to take place in America before we get to that decision.

You sound like my kind of Republican, Jim.

A nationalist who realizes that the health of a nation and the health of the nation's working class are basically one and the same thing.

You me and Pat Buchanan are basically on the same page.

We're nationalists.

 

[Old Rocks]

Here is what it humerous. I am a self admitted and proud blue collar liberal. Yet most of what you two are saying I agree with. Both parties have failed to look beyond the next election cycle in their policies. Both have all too often put ideology above pragmatism.

The last eight years have hardly been conservative ones. The Republicans have done everything that they have always accused the Democrats of. And the Democrats have been essentially suppine and suppliant in letting them do it without pointing out the contradictions at the top of their voices.

How will the Obama admin do? I do not know, at this point. However, they are getting organized early, and seem to have definate plans. The economic policy, with it's emphasis on putting people to work developing and repairing infrastructure seems to be a good start to once more giving the working people of this nation some jobs that mean something. You cannot have a healthy economy without the people that are doing the real work receiving a wage that is just for the work they do.

 

[William Joyce]

the health of a nation and the health of the nation's working class are basically one and the same thing.

Agreed.

That's why issues like "free" trade, job outsourcing, H1-B visas, etc. SHOULD be stolen from Democrats, if Republicans had any sense. I agree with The American Conservative that to have the CEO of a company make more than a THOUSAND times more than the lowest-paid employee is wrong, wrong, wrong. There's nothing really "conservative" about that -- it's just gross, distorted, disgusting neocon bullshit. I always felt that in my bones, but the "free market" guys seemed to talk a cool talk, so I just followed them. Today, not so much. I still support capitalism over socialism, but with decency, limits and yes, some protectionism.

 

[mightypeon]

I would agree with that too, nothing wrong with economic nationalism. China had a lot of success with it. As a matter of fact, the Asian states which are strong today all used economic nationalism as opposed to "pure" free market. Helped them a lot.