"Republicans finally admit there is no Benghazi scandal"

[Oldstyle]

Not only can they not charge you more for a pre-existing condition...they aren't allowed to ask if you HAVE one! So who do you think picks up the tab for the millions of people like you, Bulldog? Let's see just how clueless you are about how the ACA works!

 

[whutTHEYsay]

JoeB 10392455

So Saddam delayed a few months. Big whoop.

Since there was no deadline for getting Iraq into full compliance with UN Resolution 1441 there can be no measure of delay by Saddam's regime.

It was actually Bush that broke the 1441 agreement. Something about summer heat in Iraq not the best environment for a military blitzkrieg from Kuwait into Baghdad.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

So who do you think picks up the tab for the millions of people like you,

Who do you think picked up the tab prior to the ACA, Oldstyle? Its when you went to the hospital you paid ten bucks for an aspirin,

You are on another losing crusade Oldstyle. The ACA is here to stay and the American people as a nation of people are better off.

 

[BULLDOG]

I take it you had a pre-existing condition, Bulldog? Who do you think picks up the tab to cover that under your new "fair" price?

Picks up the tab for what? I told you I pay my own insurance. The ACA doesn't tell them they can't charge a little more for pre-existing conditions, only that they have to sell it.

You don't have the faintest idea what's in the ACA...do you?

If you are asking if I have intimate knowledge of all the minute details, then of course I don't any more than you do. Your question demonstrates one of the most confusing aspects of the right wing mind. You have been convinced that anything that doesn't exactly match your parties goals is necessarily evil in every aspect, and there is no possibility that anything good might be involved. Anyone who likes a non-GOP advocated idea must be a bum whose only goal is to destroy America while they lay on the couch and take your money and rights. I couldn't live in such a dark hateful world, and I don't understand how you do.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Wrmc 10391084

Iraq, was long a proponent of international Islamic terrorism, having used such to attack the US, her interests and allies many times.

Bush agreed that Iraq's past prior to November 2002 was not sufficient cause to invade Iraq. He did so when the US voted to pass UN Resolution 1441 which gave Iraq a final opportunity to get into compliance with all relevant UNSC obligations.

The Bush national security team had nothing on Iraq with regard to terrorist attacks against the US. If it did there was no reason to sign on to 1441 and hopefully avoid war.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Wrmk 10391084

the President of Iraq was subject to the deadline of the President of the United States... to either remove himself from government or be remo

What deadline! There is no deadline. The US voted for UNSC Resolution 1441 in November of 2002. That Resolution clearly stated that Saddam Hussein would remain in power if certain conditions were met and acceptable to the UN Security Council. There was no deadline in 1441 with respect forced regime change in Iraq.

You embellishing your fantasy but it is still a fantasy.

 

[JoeB131]

Not only can they not charge you more for a pre-existing condition...they aren't allowed to ask if you HAVE one! So who do you think picks up the tab for the millions of people like you, Bulldog? Let's see just how clueless you are about how the ACA works!

Why are you talking like that's a bad thing?

Look, I think it depends what you think the purpose of health insurance is. If you think that the purpose of Health Insurance is to make a shitload of money so that they pay shareholders and give Ed ********** Hanaway a Nine Figure Retirement package, then the ACA really does suck.

If you think the purpose of health insurance is to make sure people are covered for serious illnesses, then the insurance companies not being able to cheat people is a good thing.

Or we could just go to single payer like every other civilized country.

 

[Oldstyle]

I take it you had a pre-existing condition, Bulldog? Who do you think picks up the tab to cover that under your new "fair" price?

Picks up the tab for what? I told you I pay my own insurance. The ACA doesn't tell them they can't charge a little more for pre-existing conditions, only that they have to sell it.

You don't have the faintest idea what's in the ACA...do you?

If you are asking if I have intimate knowledge of all the minute details, then of course I don't any more than you do. Your question demonstrates one of the most confusing aspects of the right wing mind. You have been convinced that anything that doesn't exactly match your parties goals is necessarily evil in every aspect, and there is no possibility that anything good might be involved. Anyone who likes a non-GOP advocated idea must be a bum whose only goal is to destroy America while they lay on the couch and take your money and rights. I couldn't live in such a dark hateful world, and I don't understand how you do.

I hate to break this to you, Bulldog...but if you didn't know that insurance companies can't charge people more for pre-existing conditions then you don't even know the basics of the ACA!

This has nothing to do with political party. It's simple common sense combined with 8th grade math skills. You can't enroll millions of Americans with heavily subsidized health insurance...enroll millions more with pre-existing conditions...and not have healthcare premiums for healthy Middle Class people go up. You can't unless the Federal Government picks up the tab which means massive increases to the deficit. So those are your choices...you either level with Middle Class America that their healthcare premiums are going to have to be really high to pay for the people like yourself...or you level with the country that having the Federal Government cover the tab is going to so expensive it's going to bury us in debt.

If you're not telling people that...you're lying to them.

 

[Oldstyle]

Not only can they not charge you more for a pre-existing condition...they aren't allowed to ask if you HAVE one! So who do you think picks up the tab for the millions of people like you, Bulldog? Let's see just how clueless you are about how the ACA works!

Why are you talking like that's a bad thing?

Look, I think it depends what you think the purpose of health insurance is. If you think that the purpose of Health Insurance is to make a shitload of money so that they pay shareholders and give Ed ********** Hanaway a Nine Figure Retirement package, then the ACA really does suck.

If you think the purpose of health insurance is to make sure people are covered for serious illnesses, then the insurance companies not being able to cheat people is a good thing.

Or we could just go to single payer like every other civilized country.

I'm very familiar with what insurance is for, Joey. I'm also cognizant of how the concept works. I know it all sounds wonderful but if you make it impossible to deny those with pre-existing conditions coverage or pass along the cost for that, it's akin to allowing motorists to carry the cheapest car insurance possible but after they crash their car allow them to change that policy to one that has collision and they can't be denied. Who would buy collision insurance under a system like that? You'd have to be an idiot! It's the same with the ACA. People will take out the cheapest policy they can with high deductables but then if they start to have serious medical issues they'll call up their health plan...switch to a more expensive plan with no deductable...have their medical issues dealt with...and then switch back to the cheaper plan once again. What people like you so conveniently overlook is the deal that Obama made with the insurance companies that guarantees that the Federal Government will cover any losses they have when people sign up for the ACA plans. We're on the hook for what will be HUGE losses when it's all implemented. When that happens remember that it was liberals who wrote this abortion of a bill...not conservatives! I don't want to hear a single whine out of any of you about how this problem was created by the GOP. The Democrats OWN this!

 

[JoeB131]

This has nothing to do with political party. It's simple common sense combined with 8th grade math skills. You can't enroll millions of Americans with heavily subsidized health insurance...enroll millions more with pre-existing conditions...and not have healthcare premiums for healthy Middle Class people go up.

sure you can. You just get rid of nine figure salaries for INsurance executives and private planes and big glass buildings.

Guy, the problem is NOT that there isn't enough money available to cover everyone. We spend 18% of our GDP while the other industrialized nations are spending 8% to 11% and they manage to cover everyone, including those with "Pre-existing conditions". They live longer, they have lower infant mortality rates, bankruptcy due to medical crisis is rare.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm very familiar with what insurance is for, Joey. I'm also cognizant of how the concept works. I know it all sounds wonderful but if you make it impossible to deny those with pre-existing conditions coverage or pass along the cost for that, it's akin to allowing motorists to carry the cheapest car insurance possible but after they crash their car allow them to change that policy to one that has collision and they can't be denied.

Well, not a good analogy, because most states require everyone to carry some kind of insurance, and isn't your complaint with the Bronze plans that they don't cover enough? That doesn't change.

It's the same with the ACA. People will take out the cheapest policy they can with high deductables but then if they start to have serious medical issues they'll call up their health plan...switch to a more expensive plan with no deductable...have their medical issues dealt with...and then switch back to the cheaper plan once again.

And that would be a bad thing, why? Hey, guy, I know you live in mortal terror that some insurance executive might have to settle for a seven figure salary instead of a nine-figure salary, but the idea is to actually make sure people get the treatment they need.

What people like you so conveniently overlook is the deal that Obama made with the insurance companies that guarantees that the Federal Government will cover any losses they have when people sign up for the ACA plans. We're on the hook for what will be HUGE losses when it's all implemented. When that happens remember that it was liberals who wrote this abortion of a bill...not conservatives! I don't want to hear a single whine out of any of you about how this problem was created by the GOP. The Democrats OWN this!

Here's the reality. We will probably have single payer within 20 years because private insurance doesn't really work.

If we treated it like car insurance, then no one would buy insurance until they hit about 40. Fortunately, we have been letting employers and government handle it, but employers don't want to play anymore when they have to compete against the Germans and Japanese who have government subsidized health coverage.

As I said, the problem isn't lack of money, it's the way it's being spent. Everyone else in the world has figured this out... except us.

 

[BlindBoo]

Wrmk 10383698

All of which leads directly to unprecedented treachery, wherein the Commander in Chief, was informed of an attack on a US Mission, which directly threatened the life of the US Ambassador and at BEST he went to bed without being certain that his staff was authorized to do what was necessary to render the aid to save those US Lives

Do you have any documentation to back up your whacky assertion/ aspersions against the President of the United States that has a Congressional stamp of approval on it.

Myths are not true LostKeys / that is why they are called myths.

Oh... So ya don't like Myths?

Well myths are born from events wherein the facts are unknown...

So let's look at the facts:

US Consulate in Benghazi was attacked. " Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Martin Dempsey confirmed that he was with Secretary Panetta when they informed the President about the attacks in the White House at around 5 p.m. and that the President directed them to do everything that they could. He further explained before the Senate that the President’s staff “was engaged with the National Military Command Center pretty constantly through the period, which is the way it would normally work.”

Benghazi Attacks Asked and Answered Database SCBD

That's the last time the Peasantpimp of the Union States was seen or known to have directly communicated with anyone relevant to that attack, wherein NO US RESOURCES WERE DIRECTED TO ASSIST THOSE BEING ATTACKED IN BENGHAZI.

We next see the Peasantpimp of the Union States doing one show in Vegas, to raise some money for himself.

Now... I said that the reprobate was made aware of the attack and went to bed. You say I was wrong...

So show the evidence that you have which establishes that I was wrong. Or concede through your failure to do so... .

I'll be here for ya... and when a reasonable period of time passes I'll note and accept your inevitable concession.

^^^

This is your brain on Faux.

I love the smell of moroonie in the morning.

Turn off Fox
Bad News for America

 

[Oldstyle]

So let me see how this works in your head, Joey...

We've had private market healthcare insurance for over a hundred years and our healthcare system was the envy of the world! The US was where you went if you really needed great doctors and great hospitals. Other countries like Canada and Great Britain had government run healthcare and you had to wait for medical treatment often times for years before it was your "turn" to be treated. If you lived in countries with those kind of healthcare systems and were wealthy then your solution was to go to the United States and use THEIR far superior healthcare system. If you weren't wealthy then you were SOL.

The problem with our healthcare system wasn't the level of care...it was out of control cost. Instead of using common sense to treat patients, physicians were forced to use a shotgun approach to medicine...ordering every test known to man...not because they really thought you needed them...but because the doctor felt they needed to have ordered them in case there was a subsequent problem which resulted in a law suit. So now if someone falls down, hits their head and requires stitches it's not an office visit at a cost of a hundred dollars to put in several stitches...it's tests ordered to check make sure that it wasn't a stroke...or an embolism...or a tumor...or some other ailment. So the patient spends the day at a hospital doing test after test and walks out of there with a bill that tops $5,000 or more. That isn't a fantasy of mine, Joey...that's a daily reality in our healthcare system. It's why our healthcare costs went through the roof. Things that should have a minimal cost were outrageously costly.

The second problem with our healthcare system were all of the people being treated at hospital emergency rooms across the country who have no insurance and never pay for their treatment. A staggeringly high number of those people are our illegal alien population who are very aware that they can't be turned away if they need emergency care. Those people have not been addressed by the ACA. They are still there...they are still getting free care and the cost of that care still needs to be absorbed by someone. You want to know why a CAT scan costs you $3,000? It's simple...you are paying for not only YOUR CAT scan but you're also paying for the CAT scan that was done for an illegal alien that won't be getting ANY bill. How has that changed, Joey? How has that been addressed by the ACA?

 

[BlindBoo]

the President of Iraq was subject to the deadline of the President of the United States... to either remove himself from government or be removed.

The entire world is aware of the fact and only fact that Saddam Hussein was obligated to comply with UNSC Resolution 1441 when it passed with geo Bush's approval,

For you to try to pass off your own stupor induced deadline that no one on earth knows about as valid should embarrass you to no end.

You are a joke.

ROFL! Now isn't that PRECIOUS?

You actually 'feel' the UN is relevant... .

ROFLMNAO! Hysterical!

Certainly was relevant when Maliki went to the UNSC to force President Bush to sign a new SOFA in 2008 that essentially ended the American occupation of Iraq.

 

[BULLDOG]

I take it you had a pre-existing condition, Bulldog? Who do you think picks up the tab to cover that under your new "fair" price?

Picks up the tab for what? I told you I pay my own insurance. The ACA doesn't tell them they can't charge a little more for pre-existing conditions, only that they have to sell it.

You don't have the faintest idea what's in the ACA...do you?

If you are asking if I have intimate knowledge of all the minute details, then of course I don't any more than you do. Your question demonstrates one of the most confusing aspects of the right wing mind. You have been convinced that anything that doesn't exactly match your parties goals is necessarily evil in every aspect, and there is no possibility that anything good might be involved. Anyone who likes a non-GOP advocated idea must be a bum whose only goal is to destroy America while they lay on the couch and take your money and rights. I couldn't live in such a dark hateful world, and I don't understand how you do.

I hate to break this to you, Bulldog...but if you didn't know that insurance companies can't charge people more for pre-existing conditions then you don't even know the basics of the ACA!

This has nothing to do with political party. It's simple common sense combined with 8th grade math skills. You can't enroll millions of Americans with heavily subsidized health insurance...enroll millions more with pre-existing conditions...and not have healthcare premiums for healthy Middle Class people go up. You can't unless the Federal Government picks up the tab which means massive increases to the deficit. So those are your choices...you either level with Middle Class America that their healthcare premiums are going to have to be really high to pay for the people like yourself...or you level with the country that having the Federal Government cover the tab is going to so expensive it's going to bury us in debt.

If you're not telling people that...you're lying to them.

You questioned my statement that you can be charged extra for pre-existing conditions, so I double checked. I was wrong. Even though I am confident in most of my beliefs, the introduction of new, credible facts can change my mind quickly. It's hard to argue with the truth, and kind of senseless. Thank you for instigating my better understanding of the truth. However, I couldn't find any example of any subsidy or extra payment to compensate the insurance companies for that. My understanding is that the millions of new policies will more than make up for any loss they might have for that reason. Are you saying that the increase in volume for the insurance companies with their corresponding profit gains were somehow kept secret? How exactly am I being subsidized? Of course rates, which have always been set by the insurance companies, will always go up. They always have, and I suspect they always will, but the rate of increase has dropped quite pleasingly.

 

[Oldstyle]

I take it you had a pre-existing condition, Bulldog? Who do you think picks up the tab to cover that under your new "fair" price?

Picks up the tab for what? I told you I pay my own insurance. The ACA doesn't tell them they can't charge a little more for pre-existing conditions, only that they have to sell it.

You don't have the faintest idea what's in the ACA...do you?

If you are asking if I have intimate knowledge of all the minute details, then of course I don't any more than you do. Your question demonstrates one of the most confusing aspects of the right wing mind. You have been convinced that anything that doesn't exactly match your parties goals is necessarily evil in every aspect, and there is no possibility that anything good might be involved. Anyone who likes a non-GOP advocated idea must be a bum whose only goal is to destroy America while they lay on the couch and take your money and rights. I couldn't live in such a dark hateful world, and I don't understand how you do.

I hate to break this to you, Bulldog...but if you didn't know that insurance companies can't charge people more for pre-existing conditions then you don't even know the basics of the ACA!

This has nothing to do with political party. It's simple common sense combined with 8th grade math skills. You can't enroll millions of Americans with heavily subsidized health insurance...enroll millions more with pre-existing conditions...and not have healthcare premiums for healthy Middle Class people go up. You can't unless the Federal Government picks up the tab which means massive increases to the deficit. So those are your choices...you either level with Middle Class America that their healthcare premiums are going to have to be really high to pay for the people like yourself...or you level with the country that having the Federal Government cover the tab is going to so expensive it's going to bury us in debt.

If you're not telling people that...you're lying to them.

You questioned my statement that you can be charged extra for pre-existing conditions, so I double checked. I was wrong. Even though I am confident in most of my beliefs, the introduction of new, credible facts can change my mind quickly. It's hard to argue with the truth, and kind of senseless. Thank you for instigating my better understanding of the truth. However, I couldn't find any example of any subsidy or extra payment to compensate the insurance companies for that. My understanding is that the millions of new policies will more than make up for any loss they might have for that reason. Are you saying that the increase in volume for the insurance companies with their corresponding profit gains were somehow kept secret? How exactly am I being subsidized? Of course rates, which have always been set by the insurance companies, will always go up. They always have, and I suspect they always will, but the rate of increase has dropped quite pleasingly.

Bulldog? How can you not know these things?

The Obama Administration worked out a deal with the health insurance companies where if they would support the ACA by not raising rates past a certain level the Federal Government would agree to reimburse them for any loses they suffered if the cost for providing healthcare under the new system was greater than projected. The insurance companies did so because they KNOW that the costs will have to be much greater than projected but they don't care because the Feds will pay them back whatever they lose. It's why rates haven't gone up as they normally would to cover people like yourself with pre-existing conditions. That does NOT mean that the cost of health care has gone down in this country. Americans simply haven't seen their part of the bill come due yet because the true costs are being hidden.

 

[Oldstyle]

I can't believe the level of ignorance with some people when it comes to the ACA! Gruber was obviously correct when he observed that the average American was too stupid to figure this out if they made it really complex.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Now... I said that the reprobate was made aware of the attack and went to bed.

Do you know what time he went to bed and when he got out of bed? I saw nothing in your links that said he went to bed.

 

[BULLDOG]

Picks up the tab for what? I told you I pay my own insurance. The ACA doesn't tell them they can't charge a little more for pre-existing conditions, only that they have to sell it.

You don't have the faintest idea what's in the ACA...do you?

If you are asking if I have intimate knowledge of all the minute details, then of course I don't any more than you do. Your question demonstrates one of the most confusing aspects of the right wing mind. You have been convinced that anything that doesn't exactly match your parties goals is necessarily evil in every aspect, and there is no possibility that anything good might be involved. Anyone who likes a non-GOP advocated idea must be a bum whose only goal is to destroy America while they lay on the couch and take your money and rights. I couldn't live in such a dark hateful world, and I don't understand how you do.

I hate to break this to you, Bulldog...but if you didn't know that insurance companies can't charge people more for pre-existing conditions then you don't even know the basics of the ACA!

This has nothing to do with political party. It's simple common sense combined with 8th grade math skills. You can't enroll millions of Americans with heavily subsidized health insurance...enroll millions more with pre-existing conditions...and not have healthcare premiums for healthy Middle Class people go up. You can't unless the Federal Government picks up the tab which means massive increases to the deficit. So those are your choices...you either level with Middle Class America that their healthcare premiums are going to have to be really high to pay for the people like yourself...or you level with the country that having the Federal Government cover the tab is going to so expensive it's going to bury us in debt.

If you're not telling people that...you're lying to them.

You questioned my statement that you can be charged extra for pre-existing conditions, so I double checked. I was wrong. Even though I am confident in most of my beliefs, the introduction of new, credible facts can change my mind quickly. It's hard to argue with the truth, and kind of senseless. Thank you for instigating my better understanding of the truth. However, I couldn't find any example of any subsidy or extra payment to compensate the insurance companies for that. My understanding is that the millions of new policies will more than make up for any loss they might have for that reason. Are you saying that the increase in volume for the insurance companies with their corresponding profit gains were somehow kept secret? How exactly am I being subsidized? Of course rates, which have always been set by the insurance companies, will always go up. They always have, and I suspect they always will, but the rate of increase has dropped quite pleasingly.

Bulldog? How can you not know these things?

The Obama Administration worked out a deal with the health insurance companies where if they would support the ACA by not raising rates past a certain level the Federal Government would agree to reimburse them for any loses they suffered if the cost for providing healthcare under the new system was greater than projected. The insurance companies did so because they KNOW that the costs will have to be much greater than projected but they don't care because the Feds will pay them back whatever they lose. It's why rates haven't gone up as they normally would to cover people like yourself with pre-existing conditions. That does NOT mean that the cost of health care has gone down in this country. Americans simply haven't seen their part of the bill come due yet because the true costs are being hidden.

Ok. You have reasons why you don't like healthcare. I just don't see those reasons as that terrible. Bottom line.....That particular cow is already out of the barn and the right's effort to close the barn door over 50 times after the fact is just childish. Nobody ever said it was perfect, or that there might not be changes to make it better, so if you or your elected representatives have any ideas, then bring them on. Whining about it won't help anything. We have healthcare, and your personal opinion of it just doesn't matter. I was hoping for single payer.

 

[JoeB131]

So let me see how this works in your head, Joey...

We've had private market healthcare insurance for over a hundred years and our healthcare system was the envy of the world! The US was where you went if you really needed great doctors and great hospitals. Other countries like Canada and Great Britain had government run healthcare and you had to wait for medical treatment often times for years before it was your "turn" to be treated. If you lived in countries with those kind of healthcare systems and were wealthy then your solution was to go to the United States and use THEIR far superior healthcare system. If you weren't wealthy then you were SOL.

None of that is actually true, guy. First, medical tourism is a myth. Very few Brits or Canadians come here. YEah, we get people from god awful third world countries. I've debunked this lie so many times I'm just tired of doing it.


Canada vs. US Health Care Systems - Debunking Canadian Health Care Myths - AARP

The authors of the study started by surveying 136 ambulatory care facilities near the U.S.-Canada border in Michigan, New York and Washington. It makes sense that Canadians crossing the border for care would favor places close by, right? It turns out, however, that about 80 percent of such facilities saw, on average, fewer than one Canadian per month; about 40 percent had seen none in the preceding year.

Then, the researchers looked at how many Canadians were discharged over a five-year period from acute-care hospitals in the same three states. They found that more than 80 percent of these hospital visits were for emergency or urgent care (that is, tourists who had to go to the emergency room). Only about 20 percent of the visits were for elective procedures or care.

The problem with our healthcare system wasn't the level of care...it was out of control cost. Instead of using common sense to treat patients, physicians were forced to use a shotgun approach to medicine...ordering every test known to man...not because they really thought you needed them...but because the doctor felt they needed to have ordered them in case there was a subsequent problem which resulted in a law suit.

No, th reason why testing happens is because the doctors can make money of the tests. They myth of the evil malpractice lawyer is debunked by the fact Texas passed tort reform and health care actually got worse in that state.

The medical malpractice myth.

So now if someone falls down, hits their head and requires stitches it's not an office visit at a cost of a hundred dollars to put in several stitches...it's tests ordered to check make sure that it wasn't a stroke...or an embolism...or a tumor...or some other ailment. So the patient spends the day at a hospital doing test after test and walks out of there with a bill that tops $5,000 or more. That isn't a fantasy of mine, Joey...that's a daily reality in our healthcare system. It's why our healthcare costs went through the roof. Things that should have a minimal cost were outrageously costly.

Actually, this is a fantasy of yours. I know you are just horrified at the thought poor people can get health coverage.

The second problem with our healthcare system were all of the people being treated at hospital emergency rooms across the country who have no insurance and never pay for their treatment. A staggeringly high number of those people are our illegal alien population who are very aware that they can't be turned away if they need emergency care. Those people have not been addressed by the ACA. They are still there...they are still getting free care and the cost of that care still needs to be absorbed by someone. You want to know why a CAT scan costs you $3,000? It's simple...you are paying for not only YOUR CAT scan but you're also paying for the CAT scan that was done for an illegal alien that won't be getting ANY bill. How has that changed, Joey? How has that been addressed by the ACA?

Oh, I agree that the lack of universal health care is causing costs to be unevenly spread around, but here's the thing.

In the US a cat scan costs on average $1080. In France, it costs 281. And, yes, France has illegals from Poland and Algeria.

Why an MRI Costs 1 080 in America and 280 in France