Refugees and the right to return

[MJB12741]

And the Zoroastrians get their native homeland of Persia back.

 

[montelatici]

Lots of bullshit there, but yeah, the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled and then we can finally have peace.

the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled

Cool. When can we resettle the Arabs who stole Byzantium?

When did the Arabs "steal" Byzantium? You need to hit the books moron.

He means Constantinople, which was turned into Istanbul.

Two morons. It's hilarious to think I am discussing history with people that haven't a clue. Again, when did the Arabs "steal" Constantinople?

May 29, 1453.

What does that date have to do with "Arabs"? Just admit that you and your buddy are ignorant morons.

 

[montelatici]

Lots of bullshit there, but yeah, the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled and then we can finally have peace.

the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled

Cool. When can we resettle the Arabs who stole Byzantium?

When did the Arabs "steal" Byzantium? You need to hit the books moron.

Who owns it now? They need to give it back.

Not the Arabs. Who should they give it back to?

The Holy Roman Emperor.

Why would the Holy Roman Emperor have anything to do with Constantinople? He was in Germany. You people are such morons.

 

[montelatici]

The customary practice (and law) at the time was that population transfers were both permissible and practical. There are numerous instances involving several million people. The Palestinian people should have been resettled in the ME nations in which they found themselves, just as the Jewish expellees were resettled in Israel, and millions of others were resettled in their various nations during that time. It was an egregious error not to do so, and it has resulted in generations of unnecessary suffering.

Its time for this to end. Long past. The solution is not going to be found in senselessly arguing about the past -- but on focusing on making a plan for the future.

The idea that 6 million Arabs must be returned to Israel is ridiculous. There is no precedent or customary law, nor written law, nor actual practice for this sort of "solution". It would spell the destruction of Israel, which must not happen as it is morally abhorrent to willfully cause the destruction of a State and deny the Jewish people their inherent rights to self-determination, self-government and sovereignty on their cultural, ancestral and historic lands.

The equivalent would be to demand that 6 million Jews be returned to Lebanon, where they had been residing for thousands of years, while insisting that the Lebanese could not have self-determination, self-government and sovereignty and that it should become a Jewish State.

The solution to the "refugee" problem is first to determine who is still a refugee and give them agency over their own choice.

Lots of bullshit there, but yeah, the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled and then we can finally have peace.

the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled

Cool. When can we resettle the Arabs who stole Byzantium?

When did the Arabs "steal" Byzantium? You need to hit the books moron.

View attachment 134913

Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

Posting a link to Wiki which shows you are a moron is not helpful. Just admit you haven't a clue and are confused. The Arabs did not steal Constantinople from anyone, moron. It's the same with every other propagandist lie you people spout.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The idea that 6 million Arabs must be returned to Israel is ridiculous. There is no precedent or customary law, nor written law, nor actual practice for this sort of "solution".

You obviously did not watch the video.

I watched the first half. Its slow. Not much actual information.

If you want to argue any of her points, present them and make your case.

If you want to claim a precedent, show me one example of a massive return of people displaced by war and all their descendants.

Put up or give up.

Sure, the rule of nationality and state succession.

What this means is that when a territory changes hands, all of the inhabitants of that territory will become citizens of that new state. We see this regularly in treaties and legal documents.

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

Resolution 181

1. Citizenship. Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine... shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.​

What this means is that all Palestinian refugees are citizens of Israel.

 

[Hollie]

The idea that 6 million Arabs must be returned to Israel is ridiculous. There is no precedent or customary law, nor written law, nor actual practice for this sort of "solution".

You obviously did not watch the video.

I watched the first half. Its slow. Not much actual information.

If you want to argue any of her points, present them and make your case.

If you want to claim a precedent, show me one example of a massive return of people displaced by war and all their descendants.

Put up or give up.

Sure, the rule of nationality and state succession.

What this means is that when a territory changes hands, all of the inhabitants of that territory will become citizens of that new state. We see this regularly in treaties and legal documents.

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

Resolution 181

1. Citizenship. Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine... shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.​

What this means is that all Palestinian refugees are citizens of Israel.

Now that's funny.

 

[ProudVeteran76]

[Here is an article which is asking to become a thread. Who will start one? ]
All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

That would be me.

Susan Akram
B.A., with honors, University of Michigan at Ann Arbor
J.D., Georgetown University Law Center
Diplome in International Human Rights, Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)

Anyone in favor of the right to return does not want peace.

They want to destroy Israel and have another Diaspora.


Or worse.

Sure they want peace. They just don't want Israel's version of peace.

The Israelis want Peace. They just don't want the Palestinian's version of peace; To have a Palestinian majority which would anneliate them and eventually annex them to Palestine. For that reason alone, the " two state solution" is forever dead

 

[Shusha]

What this means is that all Palestinian refugees are citizens of Israel.

I'll get to the argument in a bit, but WAIT, WHAT?!

Are you conceding, that the entire territory is ISRAEL?! That there is, in fact NO OCCUPATION? That the Arabs of Israel have no rights to secession or independence?

 

[montelatici]

[Here is an article which is asking to become a thread. Who will start one? ]
All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

That would be me.

Susan Akram
B.A., with honors, University of Michigan at Ann Arbor
J.D., Georgetown University Law Center
Diplome in International Human Rights, Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)

Anyone in favor of the right to return does not want peace.

They want to destroy Israel and have another Diaspora.


Or worse.

Sure they want peace. They just don't want Israel's version of peace.

The Israelis want Peace. They just don't want the Palestinian's version of peace; To have a Palestinian majority which would anneliate them and eventually annex them to Palestine. For that reason alone, the " two state solution" is forever dead

There are certainly quite a few Zionist dummies. They must be the Christian useful idiots. Hey genius, the two-state solution was the only solution that might have allowed the Jews to maintain a majority in a limited space, even though with no more large Jew populations inclined to move to israel, that was not a sure thing.

Now that only a single state is possible, the Jews might be able to rule over a majority of non-Jews for a generation or so, but the demographics are not favorable for the Jews. A western style democratic secular state or an Apartheid state with Jew rule are the only two options now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The customary practice (and law) at the time was that population transfers were both permissible and practical. There are numerous instances involving several million people. The Palestinian people should have been resettled in the ME nations in which they found themselves, just as the Jewish expellees were resettled in Israel, and millions of others were resettled in their various nations during that time. It was an egregious error not to do so, and it has resulted in generations of unnecessary suffering.

Its time for this to end. Long past. The solution is not going to be found in senselessly arguing about the past -- but on focusing on making a plan for the future.

The idea that 6 million Arabs must be returned to Israel is ridiculous. There is no precedent or customary law, nor written law, nor actual practice for this sort of "solution". It would spell the destruction of Israel, which must not happen as it is morally abhorrent to willfully cause the destruction of a State and deny the Jewish people their inherent rights to self-determination, self-government and sovereignty on their cultural, ancestral and historic lands.

The equivalent would be to demand that 6 million Jews be returned to Lebanon, where they had been residing for thousands of years, while insisting that the Lebanese could not have self-determination, self-government and sovereignty and that it should become a Jewish State.

The solution to the "refugee" problem is first to determine who is still a refugee and give them agency over their own choice.

Lots of bullshit there, but yeah, the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled and then we can finally have peace.

the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled

Cool. When can we resettle the Arabs who stole Byzantium?

When did the Arabs "steal" Byzantium? You need to hit the books moron.

View attachment 134913

Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

Posting a link to Wiki which shows you are a moron is not helpful. Just admit you haven't a clue and are confused. The Arabs did not steal Constantinople from anyone, moron. It's the same with every other propagandist lie you people spout.

Get the Arabs out of Byzantium.....now!!

 

[montelatici]

Lots of bullshit there, but yeah, the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled and then we can finally have peace.

the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled

Cool. When can we resettle the Arabs who stole Byzantium?

When did the Arabs "steal" Byzantium? You need to hit the books moron.

View attachment 134913

Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

Posting a link to Wiki which shows you are a moron is not helpful. Just admit you haven't a clue and are confused. The Arabs did not steal Constantinople from anyone, moron. It's the same with every other propagandist lie you people spout.

Get the Arabs out of Byzantium.....now!!

There are no Arabs in Byzantium.

 

[Indeependent]

[Here is an article which is asking to become a thread. Who will start one? ]
All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

That would be me.

Susan Akram
B.A., with honors, University of Michigan at Ann Arbor
J.D., Georgetown University Law Center
Diplome in International Human Rights, Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)

Anyone in favor of the right to return does not want peace.

They want to destroy Israel and have another Diaspora.


Or worse.

Sure they want peace. They just don't want Israel's version of peace.

The Israelis want Peace. They just don't want the Palestinian's version of peace; To have a Palestinian majority which would anneliate them and eventually annex them to Palestine. For that reason alone, the " two state solution" is forever dead

There are certainly quite a few Zionist dummies. They must be the Christian useful idiots. Hey genius, the two-state solution was the only solution that might have allowed the Jews to maintain a majority in a limited space, even though with no more large Jew populations inclined to move to israel, that was not a sure thing.

Now that only a single state is possible, the Jews might be able to rule over a majority of non-Jews for a generation or so, but the demographics are not favorable for the Jews. A western style democratic secular state or an Apartheid state with Jew rule are the only two options now.

That wet dream was supposed to happen last decade and the decade before last decade etc...
Keep dreaming if it keeps you going.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

the Europeans who stole Palestine could and should be resettled

Cool. When can we resettle the Arabs who stole Byzantium?

When did the Arabs "steal" Byzantium? You need to hit the books moron.

View attachment 134913

Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

Posting a link to Wiki which shows you are a moron is not helpful. Just admit you haven't a clue and are confused. The Arabs did not steal Constantinople from anyone, moron. It's the same with every other propagandist lie you people spout.

Get the Arabs out of Byzantium.....now!!

There are no Arabs in Byzantium.

View attachment 134939

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

 

[P F Tinmore]

What this means is that all Palestinian refugees are citizens of Israel.

I'll get to the argument in a bit, but WAIT, WHAT?!

Are you conceding, that the entire territory is ISRAEL?! That there is, in fact NO OCCUPATION? That the Arabs of Israel have no rights to secession or independence?

I am not conceding anything. This is assuming that Israel is a legitimate state that nobody has proven to be true.

If Israel is not legitimate and is merely an occupation that would be a different scenario.

 

[Hollie]

What this means is that all Palestinian refugees are citizens of Israel.

I'll get to the argument in a bit, but WAIT, WHAT?!

Are you conceding, that the entire territory is ISRAEL?! That there is, in fact NO OCCUPATION? That the Arabs of Israel have no rights to secession or independence?

I am not conceding anything. This is assuming that Israel is a legitimate state that nobody has proven to be true.

If Israel is not legitimate and is merely an occupation that would be a different scenario.

More of your confused muttering.

 

[louie888]

More of your confused muttering.

... she muttered.

 

[montelatici]

[Here is an article which is asking to become a thread. Who will start one? ]
All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

That would be me.

Susan Akram
B.A., with honors, University of Michigan at Ann Arbor
J.D., Georgetown University Law Center
Diplome in International Human Rights, Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)

Anyone in favor of the right to return does not want peace.

They want to destroy Israel and have another Diaspora.


Or worse.

Sure they want peace. They just don't want Israel's version of peace.

The Israelis want Peace. They just don't want the Palestinian's version of peace; To have a Palestinian majority which would anneliate them and eventually annex them to Palestine. For that reason alone, the " two state solution" is forever dead

There are certainly quite a few Zionist dummies. They must be the Christian useful idiots. Hey genius, the two-state solution was the only solution that might have allowed the Jews to maintain a majority in a limited space, even though with no more large Jew populations inclined to move to israel, that was not a sure thing.

Now that only a single state is possible, the Jews might be able to rule over a majority of non-Jews for a generation or so, but the demographics are not favorable for the Jews. A western style democratic secular state or an Apartheid state with Jew rule are the only two options now.

That wet dream was supposed to happen last decade and the decade before last decade etc...
Keep dreaming if it keeps you going.

It's happened, the Jews are ruling in an Apartheid state. No dreams necessary.

 

[MJB12741]

When did the Arabs "steal" Byzantium? You need to hit the books moron.

View attachment 134913

Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

Posting a link to Wiki which shows you are a moron is not helpful. Just admit you haven't a clue and are confused. The Arabs did not steal Constantinople from anyone, moron. It's the same with every other propagandist lie you people spout.

Get the Arabs out of Byzantium.....now!!

There are no Arabs in Byzantium.

View attachment 134939

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

It would take another Crusades to free all the stolen Muslim lands.

 

[montelatici]

View attachment 134913

Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

Posting a link to Wiki which shows you are a moron is not helpful. Just admit you haven't a clue and are confused. The Arabs did not steal Constantinople from anyone, moron. It's the same with every other propagandist lie you people spout.

Get the Arabs out of Byzantium.....now!!

There are no Arabs in Byzantium.

View attachment 134939

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

It would take another Crusades to free all the stolen Muslim lands.

We could start with Palestine and reestablish the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Posting a link to Wiki which shows you are a moron is not helpful. Just admit you haven't a clue and are confused. The Arabs did not steal Constantinople from anyone, moron. It's the same with every other propagandist lie you people spout.

Get the Arabs out of Byzantium.....now!!

There are no Arabs in Byzantium.

View attachment 134939

When can we expect the Arabs/Muslims to depart from their stolen territory?

It would take another Crusades to free all the stolen Muslim lands.

We could start with Palestine and reestablish the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem.

That was a colonial project, hypocrite.