Carl in Michigan
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Joseph and marry
Zone1 RE "Joseph knew [Mary] not UNTIL she [gave birth to Jesus]" (doesn't mean she lost her virginity)
- Thread starter notmyfault2020
- Start date
Carl in Michigan
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Yes, He will.
13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
BreezeWood
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you're too dense to understand - the exemplars were chosen by the heavens because they had nothing to repent, there is nothing to repent who are sinless -
just those who read the phony c-bible, the crucifiers - the true moral is were they even to repent ... their fate is sealed anyway.
your only hope d a is to undo what is written in the c-bible and set the record straight or you will be with all those others that wrote it and have used it.
nomadic5
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I don't get why this is so complicated
In SCRIPTURE which some Protestants seem to take very seriously to the point of sayng it is the ultimate authority (but the Church is, the Church that put together the books of the Bible) it says that
The angel Gabriel visited Mary and told her she would be with child. She said to him "How can this be since I know not man?"
And Gabriel said to her that the Holy Spirit would accomplish this.
But why would Mary be so incredulous about having a baby after being married to Joseph? (All Jewish women felt incomplete without children.)
Answer: She knew she was going to remain a virgin AFTER the marriage.
In SCRIPTURE which some Protestants seem to take very seriously to the point of sayng it is the ultimate authority (but the Church is, the Church that put together the books of the Bible) it says that
The angel Gabriel visited Mary and told her she would be with child. She said to him "How can this be since I know not man?"
And Gabriel said to her that the Holy Spirit would accomplish this.
But why would Mary be so incredulous about having a baby after being married to Joseph? (All Jewish women felt incomplete without children.)
Answer: She knew she was going to remain a virgin AFTER the marriage.
themirrorthief
Diamond Member
Hebrew mythology is not as beautiful as greek mythology
seaofnails
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if we turn to scriptures of the Quran 66:12
:12 And (God sets forth the example for those who Believe) of Mary, the daughter of Heli, who guarded her chastity........
we see that the Bible does not place any value in a sideline distraction that places value into a woman being a virgin .... and obtaining from marriage.
This is Quran / Catholic doctrine. - pagan traditional values
Mary was chosen was because that She was a direct descendant of the line of King David - and born to the HOUSE of Jacob -
as the Angel and of the Old Testament Prophecy declared and focused upon.
Yet neither the Quran nor the Vatican doctrines have ever made this important in their message in any capacity. Instead, Catholics and Muslims harp, dwell, focus, tunnel vision and “ CENTER IN “ upon the lie and bogus claim that Mary was somehow protecting and safeguarding and protecting herself from marriage and sexual relations with a husband
- as if this was a determination in Her MINDs, GOAL and SOLE PURPOSE, to KEEP Her virginity,
when the Bible says that Her virginity was not what she was planning - as the Angel was commanding Joseph to do not be afraid and to go ahead with their Marriage plan. Mary was planning sex, planning marriage.
The scripture also in conjunction does not even mention the Angel commanded Joseph to abstain from having sex with Mary and to hold off and wait until the baby was birthed . According to what we know about the Angel's command -
- The Angel told Him it was ok to take - as a wife - as was the marriage plan. !
In scripture - there was nothing important about Mary remaining and preserving Her virginity, neither in the eyes Mary nor in the command of the Angel of God Gabriel.
What Roman Catholics and Muslim do is attempt to change the meanings of the messages in the Bible in order to re - write and over - ride and downplay the rest of the storyline. Why are the rest of the words of The Holy Angel completely and totally ignored by both Catholics and Muslims ? - it seems that the only focus is on / about the virginity of Mary, as Muslims and Catholics pretend that Mary was guarding, protecting and safekeeping and preserving Her virginity and chastity.
Mary was chosen was because simply that She was a direct descendant of the line of King David - and born to the HOUSE of Jacob -
as the Angel and of the Old Testament Prophecy declared and focused upon.
In fact Jesus himself declares that all believers who obey, they are the very same as Mary his mother,
Mat 12:48 Who is my mother? ……. :49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, LOOK AT MY MOTHER
The disciples are the same as my mother :50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is ……… mother Mary
Mar 3:34 He looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother
LOOK AT MY MOTHER :35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the SAME is my mother.
Luk 11:27 when it was said …. Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. Jesus clarified :28 Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
It was more important that Mary herself hear the word of God, and keep it.
But this is not the Catholic message, the Catholic message demands that “ the womb “ that bare Jesus somehow was different and a special womb - different from all of the virgin women who have ever existed. and that this somehow transformed Mary into a exalted, lofty, high-ranking and illustrious union with God - THROUGH A CONCEPTION by the Spirit Holy
As far as being born of a woman " Mary " who was part of fallen humanity
2Co 5:21 For he hath created / made him sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Because he was born from a woman who was a part of all humanity that had fallen and - this is exactly how he was made and created as “ SIN “ - - Being conceived inside Mary caused Jesus to become and created as - SIN - But though Mary was a part of all humanity that had fallen and was lost and burdened by sin and alienation from God - being born to Mary was reason and how in that Jesus was SIN created / made as - SIN - by being born to Mary but Jesus was SIN because of " Mary " but yet - HE KNEW NO SIN
Because he was perfect and conceived by the Spirit Of The Holy Father and yet was born as sin and he overcome the curse of sin …… by obedience and living a holy life - his sinful nature was his humanity .. brought about by being born from Mary - this was how God chose to manifest himself, in the likeness of sinful flesh
Jesus did not offer himself through the bodily nature unto God - but, through the eternal spirit he offered himself …… blameless and perfect and sanctified
Act 2:30 God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Jesus explains, I must submit and give up my own desires my own nature and my fleshly temptations I must deny. i cannot do anything, whatsoever - of my own, - saying that it is the father only, that does the miracles and the works.
saying - why do you call me " good " ? - - " there is no one good but God alone "
Joh 5:30 i can of mine own self do nothing: as i hear, i judge: and my judgment is just; because i seek not mine own will, but the will of the father which hath sent me.
i am not relying upon the power of my own qualities passed down from my mother -
not relying upon the status of being born or created - without an earthly father
i have no power but to deny my own personal will and submit to the will of the spirt of God
does not the Bible teach that Jesus could never be justified in the flesh alone: - but only through the eternal spirit - he was offered as a “ perfect “ holy sacrifice without spot to God, only through the eternal and not by his flesh and blood and his own will which was made in the likeness of sinful flesh
Joh 6:63 it is the spirit that quickeneth; - the flesh profiteth nothing: - the words that i speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
if we turn to scriptures of the Quran 66:12
:12 And (God sets forth the example for those who Believe) of Mary, the daughter of Heli, who guarded her chastity........
we see that the Bible does not place any value in a sideline distraction that places value into a woman being a virgin .... and obtaining from marriage.
This is Quran / Catholic doctrine. - pagan traditional values
Mary was chosen was because that She was a direct descendant of the line of King David - and born to the HOUSE of Jacob -
as the Angel and of the Old Testament Prophecy declared and focused upon.
Yet neither the Quran nor the Vatican doctrines have ever made this important in their message in any capacity. Instead, Catholics and Muslims harp, dwell, focus, tunnel vision and “ CENTER IN “ upon the lie and bogus claim that Mary was somehow protecting and safeguarding and protecting herself from marriage and sexual relations with a husband
- as if this was a determination in Her MINDs, GOAL and SOLE PURPOSE, to KEEP Her virginity,
when the Bible says that Her virginity was not what she was planning - as the Angel was commanding Joseph to do not be afraid and to go ahead with their Marriage plan. Mary was planning sex, planning marriage.
The scripture also in conjunction does not even mention the Angel commanded Joseph to abstain from having sex with Mary and to hold off and wait until the baby was birthed . According to what we know about the Angel's command -
- The Angel told Him it was ok to take - as a wife - as was the marriage plan. !
In scripture - there was nothing important about Mary remaining and preserving Her virginity, neither in the eyes Mary nor in the command of the Angel of God Gabriel.
What Roman Catholics and Muslim do is attempt to change the meanings of the messages in the Bible in order to re - write and over - ride and downplay the rest of the storyline. Why are the rest of the words of The Holy Angel completely and totally ignored by both Catholics and Muslims ? - it seems that the only focus is on / about the virginity of Mary, as Muslims and Catholics pretend that Mary was guarding, protecting and safekeeping and preserving Her virginity and chastity.
Mary was chosen was because simply that She was a direct descendant of the line of King David - and born to the HOUSE of Jacob -
as the Angel and of the Old Testament Prophecy declared and focused upon.
In fact Jesus himself declares that all believers who obey, they are the very same as Mary his mother,
Mat 12:48 Who is my mother? ……. :49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, LOOK AT MY MOTHER
The disciples are the same as my mother :50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is ……… mother Mary
Mar 3:34 He looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother
LOOK AT MY MOTHER :35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the SAME is my mother.
Luk 11:27 when it was said …. Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. Jesus clarified :28 Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
It was more important that Mary herself hear the word of God, and keep it.
But this is not the Catholic message, the Catholic message demands that “ the womb “ that bare Jesus somehow was different and a special womb - different from all of the virgin women who have ever existed. and that this somehow transformed Mary into a exalted, lofty, high-ranking and illustrious union with God - THROUGH A CONCEPTION by the Spirit Holy
As far as being born of a woman " Mary " who was part of fallen humanity
2Co 5:21 For he hath created / made him sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Because he was born from a woman who was a part of all humanity that had fallen and - this is exactly how he was made and created as “ SIN “ - - Being conceived inside Mary caused Jesus to become and created as - SIN - But though Mary was a part of all humanity that had fallen and was lost and burdened by sin and alienation from God - being born to Mary was reason and how in that Jesus was SIN created / made as - SIN - by being born to Mary but Jesus was SIN because of " Mary " but yet - HE KNEW NO SIN
Because he was perfect and conceived by the Spirit Of The Holy Father and yet was born as sin and he overcome the curse of sin …… by obedience and living a holy life - his sinful nature was his humanity .. brought about by being born from Mary - this was how God chose to manifest himself, in the likeness of sinful flesh
Jesus did not offer himself through the bodily nature unto God - but, through the eternal spirit he offered himself …… blameless and perfect and sanctified
Act 2:30 God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Jesus explains, I must submit and give up my own desires my own nature and my fleshly temptations I must deny. i cannot do anything, whatsoever - of my own, - saying that it is the father only, that does the miracles and the works.
saying - why do you call me " good " ? - - " there is no one good but God alone "
Joh 5:30 i can of mine own self do nothing: as i hear, i judge: and my judgment is just; because i seek not mine own will, but the will of the father which hath sent me.
i am not relying upon the power of my own qualities passed down from my mother -
not relying upon the status of being born or created - without an earthly father
i have no power but to deny my own personal will and submit to the will of the spirt of God
does not the Bible teach that Jesus could never be justified in the flesh alone: - but only through the eternal spirit - he was offered as a “ perfect “ holy sacrifice without spot to God, only through the eternal and not by his flesh and blood and his own will which was made in the likeness of sinful flesh
Joh 6:63 it is the spirit that quickeneth; - the flesh profiteth nothing: - the words that i speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
seaofnails
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If the Angel Of The Lord - Gabriel, directly told Joseph he could take Mary as his wife and told him to not have any fear or worries about taking Mary as his wife -
having a marital husband and wife sexual relationship - this - was the entire point of this message from the Angel
Joseph was planning on putting away his fiancé and putting off the marriage - Joseph was worried and hurt because in his mind - mary had already had sex with someone and in the mind of Joseph, Mary had cheated and had sex and had become pregnant.
Mary had cheated on him and committed adultery and fornicated and now was suddenly pregnant. ?
Joseph was hurt, worried and even in fear and anxiety - his new wife was adulterous and had committed adultery against him
But the Angel of God knew exactly what Joseph was feeling and planning
- and the Angel told him " DO NOT FEAR " getting married and having SEXUAL RELATIONS because there was no sexual act between Mary and another man, the child conceived in His new { to be } wife was from the Spirit Holy.
why would God leave Mary and Joseph and the readers of the Bible to understand and be assured that a husband and wife relationship should be resumed without any concern or fear
If it was important for Joseph and Mary to not have marital relations why did God leave Joseph this message instead of just warning him that it would be disrespectful for to have a sexual relationship ?
this is Rome demanding that Mary should not be a wife to Joseph - not the demands of the messenger angel of God.
Mat 1:20 seeing - the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, -
fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: - for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
:25 And knew her not until - she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
we see 3 facts here
1. The angels assurance - husband and wife relationship should be resumed - with no concern or fear
If the Angel Of The Lord - Gabriel, directly told Joseph he could take Mary as his wife and told him to not have any fear or worries about taking Mary as his wife -
having a marital husband and wife sexual relationship - this - was the entire point of this message from the Angel
Joseph was planning on putting away his fiancé and putting off the marriage - Joseph was worried and hurt because in his mind - mary had already had sex with someone and in the mind of Joseph, Mary had cheated and had sex and had become pregnant.
Mary had cheated on him and committed adultery and fornicated and now was suddenly pregnant. ?
Joseph was hurt, worried and even in fear and anxiety - his new wife was adulterous and had committed adultery against him
But the Angel of God knew exactly what Joseph was feeling and planning
- and the Angel told him " DO NOT FEAR " getting married and having SEXUAL RELATIONS because there was no sexual act between Mary and another man, the child conceived in His new { to be } wife was from the Spirit Holy.
why would God leave Mary and Joseph and the readers of the Bible to understand and be assured that a husband and wife relationship should be resumed without any concern or fear
If it was important for Joseph and Mary to not have marital relations why did God leave Joseph this message instead of just warning him that it would be disrespectful for to have a sexual relationship ?
this is Rome demanding that Mary should not be a wife to Joseph - not the demands of the messenger angel of God.
Mat 1:20 seeing - the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, -
fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: - for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
:25 And knew her not until - she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
we see 3 facts here
1. The angels assurance - husband and wife relationship should be resumed - with no concern or fear
2. Joseph accepted Mary as a wife - and married her
3. Joseph did not have intercourse with his wife - until she bore her firstborn son
The word of God has made it known that - Catholics simply have no scriptures for their faith
even if Mary remained a virgin the Scriptures place no value in the virginity of Mary,
Mary herself, was not guarding her virginity - she was planning to marry a husband and Joseph was hurt, worried and fearful because he believed his wife had cheated and fornicated against him -
THIS SEXUAL SITUATION - caused Joseph to begin plans to divorce Mary. it was because of a sexual act that Joseph believed had been committed against him - this caused Joseph to begin plans to divorce Mary
in conclusion, the scriptures show that Joseph and Mary did stay together, even at 12 years after his birth
Mary and Joseph are still married, still together as mother and father - together searching for Jesus when he disappears and is found in the temple
Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us?
behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Mary and Joseph were not even involved in the ministry of Jesus - they are mother and father, husband and wife / married - looking franticly for their lost son.
.
.
3. Joseph did not have intercourse with his wife - until she bore her firstborn son
The word of God has made it known that - Catholics simply have no scriptures for their faith
even if Mary remained a virgin the Scriptures place no value in the virginity of Mary,
Mary herself, was not guarding her virginity - she was planning to marry a husband and Joseph was hurt, worried and fearful because he believed his wife had cheated and fornicated against him -
THIS SEXUAL SITUATION - caused Joseph to begin plans to divorce Mary. it was because of a sexual act that Joseph believed had been committed against him - this caused Joseph to begin plans to divorce Mary
in conclusion, the scriptures show that Joseph and Mary did stay together, even at 12 years after his birth
Mary and Joseph are still married, still together as mother and father - together searching for Jesus when he disappears and is found in the temple
Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us?
behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Mary and Joseph were not even involved in the ministry of Jesus - they are mother and father, husband and wife / married - looking franticly for their lost son.
.
.
Last edited:
seaofnails
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the fact that they did have husband and wife relations and stay together shows the faith that Mary and Joseph had in the Lord the God -
that Mary and Joseph did have intimacy after Jesus was born and did trust in God and believed in faith -
that Mary and Joseph did have intimacy after Jesus was born and did trust in God and believed in faith -
Fort Fun Indiana
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They were married.
This doesn't pass the smell test.
Neither does the hilarious lie about immaculate conception.
Bob Blaylock
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It certainly would have made for a pretty bad deal for Joseph, to marry a wife that he could never “know”.
And there really is no rational basis at all to suppose that Mary did or should have remained a virgin, once she recovered from giving birth to Jesus; other than that The Catholic Church Says So.
There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that there is any virtue in a married couple not engaging in proper marital intimacy. In fact there are at least one or two passages that hint to the contrary, that it would be unvirtuous for a person to deny intimacy to one's spouse.
Bob Blaylock
Diamond Member
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- #31
I think it is undeniable that the Catholic church has gone through periods of deep corruption; and that a fair amount of blatant falsehood has found its way thereinto.
The idea that Mary would refuse to fulfill her intimate obligations to her husband, and that there would be anything at all virtuous about that, is certainly a very clear example of such a falsehood.
Bob Blaylock
Diamond Member
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He makes i clear enough that he is very much in favor of it.
For Mary to refuse to have sex with her husband would be an act of defiance against God.
BreezeWood
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the fact is mary was an anathema against judaism, their false commandments among the many grievances and was the precursor for the main issues for all the 1st century events a renunciation of judaism culminating with the crucifixion of jesus by the jews -
as well, so little is known of jesus historically, how would anyone have known anything about his birth 30 years preceding his notoriety - the bibles story of mary is entirely made up. than the simple truth.
as well, so little is known of jesus historically, how would anyone have known anything about his birth 30 years preceding his notoriety - the bibles story of mary is entirely made up. than the simple truth.
BreezeWood
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you havn't a clue - heavenly mary had sex as she pleased and did not fear either you or judaism, same with joseph - they were never married, with a plackard document on the wall and lived ever happily ever after - the same for heavenly jesus and mary magdalene ... blaylock the crucifier.
Bob Blaylock
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BreezeWood
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oh look ...
blaylock and the maui fire - it's not garden earth its him and his baby who the heavens can not live without ...
Bob Blaylock
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LibertyKid
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At the end of the day... who gives a shit. This is a non-essential belief. Everyone, please move on for Christ's sake.
BreezeWood
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sure blaylock ...
the heavens just wanted to show how happy they are, your their favorite - christian.
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