Rawley
Diamond Member
- Sep 8, 2014
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Nope. Your entire argument is based on the assumption we adopted British common law. The country we had violently rebelled from because of their laws that demanded subservience of it’s serfs.
Rand Paul introduces a Constitutional Amendment to end Birthright Citizenship
- Thread starter 1srelluc
- Start date
Admiral Rockwell Tory
Diamond Member
Sorry to bring facts into the argument, because we did.
Review the content of post #25 (which is an excerpt from the full article) and note the author is making the case that jurisdiction equals nation to which one owes allegiance (citizenship).
Hence one who still has allegiance to the nation they came from are under the jurisdiction of that country of their origin, not ours. Subject to the laws of a nation one is within is not the same as subject to jurisdiction as used in the 14th Amendment.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Wow. Six posts quoting things that didn't end up in the Amendment. Good for you.
The Amendment is clearly written. You are born here, you are a citizen. Period. Full Stop.
No one is illegal on stolen land.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
That actually sounds, a little fascist.
Are we going to institute loyalty tests on infants now?
Rawley
Diamond Member
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Correct. That eludes the Admiral and others that believe mere birth is all that is needed.
Read the full article via the link provided, dildo brain.
The amendment was NOT clearly written, especially per language usage and context a century and half later, and the author quoted/cited explained such.
The nuances of citizenship and/or birth linkage eludes your feeble mental ability.
If you knew your world history better, you'd realize that all land on this planet could be considered "stolen".
Your response is typical of the deadbeat, parasitic, freeloader Leftists who have done nothing to build this nation and are willing to give away what belongs to others, since they are incapable of giving any substance of their own.
the watcher
Diamond Member
Can you imagine the flow of migrants that will besiege us after this announcement?
Anything not socialist/communist/Marxist sounds "fascist" to ideological pinheads like you.
Nothing I posted suggests "institute loyalty tests on infants", but I wouldn't object to provisional citizenship until one reaches voting age and rather than a no-cost franchise because of birth here, one has to pass the same tests as applied to legal immigrants seeking to become citizens.
Explain better please.
Which "announcement", and how so ?
the watcher
Diamond Member
Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
Exactly.
As a military-aged male, I am part of my community's militia, by the definition used by the founders. So regulate me well, in any way that is constitutional. Constitutional, by definition, would not include infringing on my right to bear arms.
Seeing the following posts, this would have been more clear had it ended with "in the OP."
Is this post supposed to be tongue-in-cheek or satire ?
If the Bill/Amendment mentioned in OP were to go into effect, migrant flow would be significantly reduced. IMO
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Nope, it's a lot of blah, blah, blah about what someone thought SHOULD be in there, when the words in there are very clear.
you are born here, you are a citizen. Period.
Understandably, for a nation built on immigration.
I've probably accomplished more in this life than you ever will.
the watcher
Diamond Member
What do you think would happen in the 2 year period between bill introduction and signing into law? Even if it wasn't passed it will still encourage migration.
Yeah Rand, pee in everyone's cornflakes for months on end then introduce something that won't go anywhere.
That's the ticket.
That said:
Just because the cat has kittens in the oven doesn't make 'em cat head biscuits.
From you MSN link;
Paul’s proposal comes as the Supreme Court hears arguments on President Trump’s 2025 executive order limiting birthright citizenship, which similarly excludes children of undocumented immigrants from automatic citizenship. The Court’s decision could either render Paul’s amendment unnecessary or set the stage for a constitutional challenge. Paul has said his amendment is a safeguard in case the Court does not rule as he hopes.
The current situation is result of an error on part of SC on how to interpret the wording of the 14th. It was written in 19th century English and we may need a revision in more precise and clear 21st century American-English.
Biggest challenge will be to get the 3/4 states ratification called for by Article V of the Constitution.
The article I linked to and presented excerpts from in posts #21 - #27 is worth a read to better clear most of the confusion.
Are We Subjects or Citizens? Birthright Citizenship and the Constitution
It is absurd to believe that the Fourteenth Amendment confers the boon of American citizenship on the children of illegal aliens.
imprimis.hillsdale.edu
Last edited:
Legal or illegal ?
Part of your answer is in the excerpt in the post following this one of yours.
Matter might be clarified sooner, if SC does correct re-interpretation.
Are We Subjects or Citizens? Birthright Citizenship and the Constitution
It is absurd to believe that the Fourteenth Amendment confers the boon of American citizenship on the children of illegal aliens.
imprimis.hillsdale.edu
I doubt that.
You appear to have flunked English language comprehension while doing K-12 education.
The author of the article that you should read first, before making more of an idiot than you are.
Edward J. Erler is professor emeritus of political science at California State University, San Bernardino. He earned his B.A. from San Jose State University and his M.A. and Ph.D. in government from Claremont Graduate University. He has published numerous articles on constitutional topics in journals such as Interpretation, the Notre Dame Journal of Law, and the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy. He was a member of the California Advisory Commission on Civil Rights from 1988-2006 and served on the California Constitutional Revision Commission in 1996. He is the author of several books, including Prophetic Statesmanship: Harry Jaffa, Abraham Lincoln, and the Gettysburg Address and, most recently, a revised and expanded edition of The United States in Crisis: Citizenship, Immigration, and the Nation State.
Are We Subjects or Citizens? Birthright Citizenship and the Constitution
It is absurd to believe that the Fourteenth Amendment confers the boon of American citizenship on the children of illegal aliens.
imprimis.hillsdale.edu
One key excerpt;
We have somehow come today to believe that anyone born within the geographical limits of the U.S. is automatically subject to its jurisdiction. But this renders the jurisdiction clause utterly superfluous and without force. If this had been the intention of the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment, they would simply have said that all persons born or naturalized in the U.S. are thereby citizens. Furthermore, the principal supporters of the Fourteenth Amendment were explicit about the meaning of “subject to the jurisdiction”: it meant owing exclusive allegiance to the U.S. and none to any other country.
Further;
...
Under Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment, Congress has the power to define “by appropriate legislation” who is subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. Indeed, during debate over the amendment, Senator Howard, the author of the citizenship clause, attempted to assure skeptical colleagues that the new language was not intended to make citizens of the Indians. Although the Indians were born within the nation’s geographical limits, Howard steadfastly maintained that they were not subject to the nation’s jurisdiction because they owed allegiance to their tribes. Jurisdiction understood as allegiance, Howard pointed out, excluded not only Indians but “persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, [or] who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers.” Thus “subject to the jurisdiction” does not simply mean, as is commonly thought today, subject to American laws or American courts. It means owing exclusive political allegiance to the U.S.
...
Are We Subjects or Citizens? Birthright Citizenship and the Constitution
It is absurd to believe that the Fourteenth Amendment confers the boon of American citizenship on the children of illegal aliens.
imprimis.hillsdale.edu
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