Question For John Atheist: Don't You Want To Remember Your Good Deeds Forever?

[alang1216]

JAG Writes:
~ Regarding John Atheist ~
~ Introductory Remarks ~
John Atheist,
You do desire to live a heroic life and to be remembered
for your good deeds, don't you? I think you do.
You have lived your life to help others, haven't you? Yes,
you most likely have.
You have lived by the Golden Rule that says do unto
others as you would have them do unto you, haven't
you? Yes, you probably have lived that way.
But on your atheism let us assume that you die and
cease to exist forever --- here is a short piece I wrote
about this atheistic cease-to-exist sadness.

A Monument To John Atheist
by JAG
Let us say that your risked your life to save 3000 people that
were stranded in a dangerous storm and in so doing you lost
a leg, but you were successful in rescuing them and the "powers
that be" gave you a medal for your heroic action and later a
grateful nation erected a statue of John Atheist and it stood
for 500 years.

That would matter to YOU in the short term, but not in the
long term. On your atheism there would come a time when
John Atheist ceased to exist -- and became this 00000

If John Atheist does Cease-To-Exist, then in the long
term it would not matter to YOU that you had acted
heroically to save the lives of other human beings.

If some humans remembered you for 5000 years it would
NOT matter to YOU because you Ceased-To-Exist and
had become this 00000.

So what point am I making? Answer: You need spiritual
tools to arrive at what really matters.
John 3:16
{1) believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and "perish"

John Atheist now has Eternal Life , , , ,

Here on this spiritual ground your heroic action would
matter for all Eternity. It would be FOREVER in your mind
that you had performed a noble heroic action that helped
other people at great cost to you. It would be known by untold
billions of human beings who were sharing Eternal Life with you.
It would matter to YOU and to THEM . . . FOREVER.

Now why on Earth, would that NOT appeal to you?
Why would you NOT desire to be known forever.
And remembered forever by large numbers of
people that YOU had personally helped by living a
noble heroic life?

Why does it not make you very sad to think that all
your past noble heroic acts will be reduced to 00000
and will never be remembered by you?

JAG

We don't think it's an option for anyone. The flip side is we don't have to worry about going to hell either.

there is no hell--so no one has to worry about that
hahahahahhahaha

How do you know? Who informed you? What will be the ramifications if you are wrong?

What if you are wrong? What if you will suffer, because you believe in the wrong god?

The Wrong GOD? Do you refer to the gods of the Mormons? The god of the Koran? The godless Buddhists? The many animal gods of the Hindi, or one's ancestor worship? Please elaborate...

..all religions are made up by man = fake = not real

Including evolution? Or do you exclude evolution because you believe it to 100% true and comes from individuals who never lie, cheat, or steal ------- And are certainly not prideful ------ ever...

silly silly silly
1. I don't believe it's 100% true
2. it's not a religion---hahahahahah
3. it's based on evidence/etc--which religions are not
4. prideful---???!!! hahahahhah what?
5.. it's a theory, at least--not ''god did it'''

Evolution is a cult, based on the faulty interpretation of partial evidence. Since GOD can do it why exclude HIM to concoct an alternative. Christianity is founded on factual historic data, and encouraged observation, investigation and repeatable research.

Evolution is a cult? That’s strange because biological evolution is among the best supported theories in science. I guess you believe there is some worldwide conspiracy?

Your comment about Christianity is odd because the facts are otherwise. Christianity held back science and investigation for 800 years during the Dark Ages.

I’ve noticed there is a certain breed of really, really angry Christianity.

A cult is a group that excludes and demeans those who have other opinions... Christianity created the colleges and universities that atheists basically stole. The dark ages was primarily caused by the abduction of Christianity by the Papist world government view, that ended with the PROTESTANT REFORMATION on the heals or the Gutenberg Bible ---- when people once again began to read the Bible for themselves and it wasn't "interpreted" by the ROMAN CLERGY.

the christians exclude and demean those who have other opinions
christians TORTURED people for not believing what they do
..they denigrated Galileo for believing the TRUTH!!

ROMAN Catholic ---- not CHRISTIAN. Sure, I disagree with you; however, I'm not out to insult nor harm you. I simply feel that you are wrong and that others need to see that yours in not the only opinion.

..the Roman Catholics are not christians? !!!!!???

Of course not. Neither are the Eastern Orthodox. In fact there was a whole millennium after the apostles that there were no Christians at all. It's a miracle the Christianity survived

 

[harmonica]

JAG Writes:
~ Regarding John Atheist ~
~ Introductory Remarks ~
John Atheist,
You do desire to live a heroic life and to be remembered
for your good deeds, don't you? I think you do.
You have lived your life to help others, haven't you? Yes,
you most likely have.
You have lived by the Golden Rule that says do unto
others as you would have them do unto you, haven't
you? Yes, you probably have lived that way.
But on your atheism let us assume that you die and
cease to exist forever --- here is a short piece I wrote
about this atheistic cease-to-exist sadness.

A Monument To John Atheist
by JAG
Let us say that your risked your life to save 3000 people that
were stranded in a dangerous storm and in so doing you lost
a leg, but you were successful in rescuing them and the "powers
that be" gave you a medal for your heroic action and later a
grateful nation erected a statue of John Atheist and it stood
for 500 years.

That would matter to YOU in the short term, but not in the
long term. On your atheism there would come a time when
John Atheist ceased to exist -- and became this 00000

If John Atheist does Cease-To-Exist, then in the long
term it would not matter to YOU that you had acted
heroically to save the lives of other human beings.

If some humans remembered you for 5000 years it would
NOT matter to YOU because you Ceased-To-Exist and
had become this 00000.

So what point am I making? Answer: You need spiritual
tools to arrive at what really matters.
John 3:16
{1) believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and "perish"

John Atheist now has Eternal Life , , , ,

Here on this spiritual ground your heroic action would
matter for all Eternity. It would be FOREVER in your mind
that you had performed a noble heroic action that helped
other people at great cost to you. It would be known by untold
billions of human beings who were sharing Eternal Life with you.
It would matter to YOU and to THEM . . . FOREVER.

Now why on Earth, would that NOT appeal to you?
Why would you NOT desire to be known forever.
And remembered forever by large numbers of
people that YOU had personally helped by living a
noble heroic life?

Why does it not make you very sad to think that all
your past noble heroic acts will be reduced to 00000
and will never be remembered by you?

JAG

We don't think it's an option for anyone. The flip side is we don't have to worry about going to hell either.

there is no hell--so no one has to worry about that
hahahahahhahaha

How do you know? Who informed you? What will be the ramifications if you are wrong?

What if you are wrong? What if you will suffer, because you believe in the wrong god?

The Wrong GOD? Do you refer to the gods of the Mormons? The god of the Koran? The godless Buddhists? The many animal gods of the Hindi, or one's ancestor worship? Please elaborate...

..all religions are made up by man = fake = not real

Including evolution? Or do you exclude evolution because you believe it to 100% true and comes from individuals who never lie, cheat, or steal ------- And are certainly not prideful ------ ever...

silly silly silly
1. I don't believe it's 100% true
2. it's not a religion---hahahahahah
3. it's based on evidence/etc--which religions are not
4. prideful---???!!! hahahahhah what?
5.. it's a theory, at least--not ''god did it'''

Evolution is a cult, based on the faulty interpretation of partial evidence. Since GOD can do it why exclude HIM to concoct an alternative. Christianity is founded on factual historic data, and encouraged observation, investigation and repeatable research.

Evolution is a cult? That’s strange because biological evolution is among the best supported theories in science. I guess you believe there is some worldwide conspiracy?

Your comment about Christianity is odd because the facts are otherwise. Christianity held back science and investigation for 800 years during the Dark Ages.

I’ve noticed there is a certain breed of really, really angry Christianity.

A cult is a group that excludes and demeans those who have other opinions... Christianity created the colleges and universities that atheists basically stole. The dark ages was primarily caused by the abduction of Christianity by the Papist world government view, that ended with the PROTESTANT REFORMATION on the heals or the Gutenberg Bible ---- when people once again began to read the Bible for themselves and it wasn't "interpreted" by the ROMAN CLERGY.

the christians exclude and demean those who have other opinions
christians TORTURED people for not believing what they do
..they denigrated Galileo for believing the TRUTH!!

ROMAN Catholic ---- not CHRISTIAN. Sure, I disagree with you; however, I'm not out to insult nor harm you. I simply feel that you are wrong and that others need to see that yours in not the only opinion.

..the Roman Catholics are not christians? !!!!!???

Of course not. Neither are the Eastern Orthodox. In fact there was a whole millennium after the apostles that there were no Christians at all. It's a miracle the Christianity survived

they don't believe in christ???!!!

 

[Meriweather]

so, we know, the theists don't have a theory

1. There appears to be some agreement that it took eons for it all to come together, speck by speck, cell by cell.
2. Theists also believe that even though the world came together cell by cell, there is intelligence in its midst.
3. Intelligence is not present in inanimate matter.
4. Therefore, both matter and intelligence are a part of this universe and its formation.

It appears that it is the Theists who are willing to wait on facts rather than jumping to conclusions (as well thought out as some of those conclusions may be).

 

[harmonica]

so, we know, the theists don't have a theory

1. There appears to be some agreement that it took eons for it all to come together, speck by speck, cell by cell.
2. Theists also believe that even though the world came together cell by cell, there is intelligence in its midst.
3. Intelligence is not present in inanimate matter.
4. Therefore, both matter and intelligence are a part of this universe and its formation.

It appears that it is the Theists who are willing to wait on facts rather than jumping to conclusions (as well thought out as some of those conclusions may be).

so, theists believe a fully formed human just appeared??
give me the theory in about 10 sentences

 

[ding]

I think I approach Scripture from a less biased position than you. So relative to you, yes.

I don't accept that but it's not something that can be proved either way.

I like how you hold yourself above others. They lie to you but you don't lie. I believe people who aren't objective are dangerous to themselves and others.

Thanks, I agree with all that. As to the lies, Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc., have bee telling me they know the truth but it's all different truths so they can't all be true, the rest must be lies.

But you still haven't addressed the question I asked. What's the difference to YOU for everyone being punished but not judged?

I don't think I will. It seems like a distinction in search of a difference and I don't really have an answer.

Your lack of objectivity is astounding.

 

[ding]

They're not cultists, they're people.

Who are cultists.

They believe this idea of ALL babies ever born. Anywhere. So none of what you listed is a good comparison.

If you believe there are no such things as innocent babies because your celestial dictator says so... Yes, you are a cultist.

I have a different definition for 'cult' but I don't think we disagree on substance.

How do you know what his definition is?

What's your definition?

Cults are religious groups based on a specific individual who gains a following. All religions begin as cults, the cults that survive the death of the founder become established churches. Established churches give rise cults and the cycle repeats.

Not the textbook definition, but I'm not surprised at your take on it.

 

[ding]

CERN says it was created from nothing.

You can't say God didn't create it.

I can say God did create it.

If you can say God did create the universe why can't someone say God didn't create it? Both are equally devoid of evidence.

Some can. He can't. Read his signature.

And they aren't equally devoid of evidence. God created existence. Existence is the evidence.

 

[ding]

Whites justified slavery as a way to save the soul of the non-believers which then morphed into if the person being enslaved came from an area that wasn't naturally christian---then focused on skin color.

Do you have any proof of this?

Says the guy who never offers up any real proof.

Prove it.

Any post of yours, they all have NO proof, only your made up shit.

Prove it. Show me they have no proof. Link to one.

Anything about the BB popping out of nowhere.

You are a moron. It's accepted science, dummy. Just go to CERN.

CERN isn't about the universe popping out of nothing, they're smashing shit together to see what's inside. See? This is what I'm talking about, your so called proof isn't proof of anything, except that you don't know how to prove something.

No. CERN says the universe was created, dummy.

That the atoms in your body are 14 billion years old.

So the universe was created, and CERN doesn't say that it's by a magic invisible guy who poofs everything into existence from nothing.

CERN says it was created from nothing.

You can't say God didn't create it.

I can say God did create it.

Link me to the exact page and quote that proves that from CERN. I bet you can't.

I’ve linked it to you dozens of times, dummy.

It’s ok if you want to be a science denier, Taz.

You always link to the general CERN site. I'm saying quote the part where they say that the universe popped into being from nothing, and put the link to the page. You can't expect me to search through the whole site, do you?

I always link to the page that talks about the big bang and starts off asking the question did you know that the atoms in your body were 14 billion years old?

I think you need to face the reality that the Big Bang is the creation of the universe from nothing. The atoms in your body are 14 billion years old, dummy, not infinite in age.

I know you and every other atheist who posts here is offended by this reality because it literally shakes the foundation of your beliefs. But there it is. That's how it is.

 

[alang1216]

Your lack of objectivity is astounding.

On what do you bias your opinion?

 

[ding]

Your lack of objectivity is astounding.

On what do you bias your opinion?

For starters you have already admitted that you are biased because you can't imagine any perception of God. So when you read Scripture you start from a position that everything must be false.

 

[ding]

You’re right...
All of those nations that murdered entire civilizations in the name of “god” and no “god” were much nicer than God.

So your defense of God is that his creations are even worse than He is? Seems like a very weak defense to me.

I believe his joke went over your head.

Why would the Creator of existence need defending?

 

[alang1216]

If you can say God did create the universe why can't someone say God didn't create it? Both are equally devoid of evidence.

And they aren't equally devoid of evidence. God created existence. Existence is the evidence.

You may be right, there may have been a creator, I don't know, however, there is absolutely no evidence (outside of the Bible) that the God of Abraham is that creator.

 

[Meriweather]

so, theists believe a fully formed human just appeared??
give me the theory in about 10 sentences

Not what I said. You may have skipped over what I said about speck by speck, cell by cell.

 

[ding]

If you can say God did create the universe why can't someone say God didn't create it? Both are equally devoid of evidence.

And they aren't equally devoid of evidence. God created existence. Existence is the evidence.

You may be right, there may have been a creator, I don't know, however, there is absolutely no evidence (outside of the Bible) that the God of Abraham is that creator.

You mean besides being the only revealed religion? Or the only religion which believes God created the universe from nothing and that man is a product of that creation?

The reality is that no other religion makes the claim that God sought man. The other religions are man seeking God. Mind you much knowledge of God can be gained from seeking God. In fact, it is the only true way to know God. Which is what you will never have. Nor will you be able to reap the benefits from such a relationship. Which probably explains why you have such a skewed opinion of existence.

 

[Hollie]

If you can say God did create the universe why can't someone say God didn't create it? Both are equally devoid of evidence.

And they aren't equally devoid of evidence. God created existence. Existence is the evidence.

You may be right, there may have been a creator, I don't know, however, there is absolutely no evidence (outside of the Bible) that the God of Abraham is that creator.

That’s the basic flaw shared by the currently popular religions.A book is simply that, a book. Until there is a way to connect a supernatural being with the authorship of a book, it's safe to assume that the book is, in fact, merely written by men.

 

[ding]

If you can say God did create the universe why can't someone say God didn't create it? Both are equally devoid of evidence.

And they aren't equally devoid of evidence. God created existence. Existence is the evidence.

You may be right, there may have been a creator, I don't know, however, there is absolutely no evidence (outside of the Bible) that the God of Abraham is that creator.

That’s the basic flaw shared by the currently popular religions.A book is simply that, a book. Until there is a way to connect a supernatural being with the authorship of a book, it's safe to assume that the book is, in fact, merely written by men.

If we start with the premise that spirit created the material world and created laws of nature which not only predestined beings that know and create to arise but also to mold or evolve their level of consciousness, then it is not a giant leap to believe that besides the constant feedback we receive from the universe that either correct or reinforce our behaviors that we would also receive revelations from the spirit which connects but is not a part of the material world.

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

So it is for good reason that we should keep an open mind about the possibility of the creator of space and time communicating with his creatures outside of the laws of nature which act as compensating and reinforcing laws of behavior. It would be illogical to believe that the intelligence behind creation of space and time would not provide some level of instruction or guidance. The question is what would that actually look like. And for that answer we must look at our own experiences as a guide to the answer.

From my own personal experiences I have had revelations that when they popped into my head I instantly recognized that they were true. Mind you I am not describing religious revelations, but ordinary everyday kind of things about my ordinary everyday issues that I am confronted with. Usually they happen in the morning when I am in that halfway state of being asleep and being awake. There is only one time when we are not conscious of self and that is when we are asleep. So it makes perfect sense to me that that is the time I am most receptive to the spirit which binds us but is not a part of the material world. This is how I believe revelations work. And this is how I believe ancient man received his revelations. Not a burning bush, or an angel appearing, but ordinary men being in a state of mind receptive to the spirit that binds us but is not a part of the material world. In this light, I can imagine ancient man having an image of how creation of space and time unfolded. Not having the scientific knowledge that we have today, he captured the allegorical account of creation in his own way. So while others may nit pick the exact details or sequence because it does not satisfy their modern view of the world, they miss out on the bigger picture which is that ancient man pretty much nailed what we know today. Specifically, that the universe did have a beginning and that man is a product of the universe.

And lastly, let's not forget or diminish the importance of ancient man believing so highly in these accounts that he passed them down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years. I can't think of anything which is comparable. It seems to me that it would be a travesty to dismiss these accounts as fairy tales.

 

[alang1216]

Your lack of objectivity is astounding.

On what do you bias your opinion?

For starters you have already admitted that you are biased because you can't imagine any perception of God. So when you read Scripture you start from a position that everything must be false.

I believe you are confusing objectivity with bias. Objectivity would mean you are open to evidence either for or against, and I think I am. Bias would mean you start from a particular position, e.g., God created the universe, and review the evidence in light of your position.

 

[alang1216]

You’re right...
All of those nations that murdered entire civilizations in the name of “god” and no “god” were much nicer than God.

So your defense of God is that his creations are even worse than He is? Seems like a very weak defense to me.

I believe his joke went over your head.

Why would the Creator of existence need defending?

Or it went beneath my notice?

The Creator of existence has, by his own admission, committed crimes against humanity.

 

[alang1216]

You mean besides being the only revealed religion?

Revealed to who? There is no evidence to support the claim God revealed anything. Did he reveal anything to Muhammad?

Or the only religion which believes God created the universe from nothing and that man is a product of that creation?

Pastafarians believe in a flying spaghetti monster that is a pretty unique belief and at least we have evidence of pasta.

 

[ding]

Your lack of objectivity is astounding.

On what do you bias your opinion?

For starters you have already admitted that you are biased because you can't imagine any perception of God. So when you read Scripture you start from a position that everything must be false.

I believe you are confusing objectivity with bias. Objectivity would mean you are open to evidence either for or against, and I think I am. Bias would mean you start from a particular position, e.g., God created the universe, and review the evidence in light of your position.

The definition of subjective is a belief based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. The definition of objective is a belief not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts. So the difference between objective and subjective is literally bias. You can't be objective about examining the evidence for God. It's not possible. You can't objectively argue both sides.