Zone1 Question For Catholics

The Mormon Church? The JWs? The Seventh Day Adventist?
The discussion is about the Catholic/Orthodox faith, and the Biblical passages and traditions that are the foundation of the Catholic/Orthodox sacrament of Reconciliation/Confession.

Perhaps members of each of the denominations you list can teach you about their own practices and beliefs.
My sins weren't forgiven when I went to GOD and then sought out a minister to baptize me as a SIGN of repentance?
What does your denomination teach? Catholics/Orthodox believe sins are forgiven by God.
Good Allah it didn't even enter my mind to seek out a member of your cult to confess to and seek their forgiveness 😂
Why would it? You are not Catholic/Orthodox, and from your attitude, I doubt it would be a momentous practice for you.
 
I am not your enemy, and the questions are no threat.
I'm glad you feel that way.
The authors of scripture are presenting a truth. Going off into the la-la land of seeking facts so one can turn from the spiritual world of truths to the physical world of objects/facts misses entire points.
I don't debate any of the allegorical truths. We've actually agreed weeks ago on how there can be no argument against presenting the stories that are literally impossible, as allegory. There's no need to revisit any of that again with you.

Are you learning something about the spiritual world? Can you give us a meaning for the Noah's ark story, so that others can learn too?
That is why further discussion between us is pointless. I am investigating spiritual truths while you are pursuing physical data and facts. Our different areas of study keep us apart, and never the twain shall meet.

The two can meet if I agree to not pursue physical data and facts. I can do that, in the interest of hearing how the stories have a deeper message that needs to be understood.

And so for instance: I can't find any worthwhile message in the Noah's ark story, other than something very simple, such as, cleaning up the mistakes, so to speak. Can you start with that?

If your god doesn't make mistakes, I must be missing the point completely!
 
I’m not laughing or crying. I just feel bad for you.
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I pray rosaries for reparations for the souls of him and his lot.

It's the most gratifying of all my prayers.


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I’m not laughing or crying. I just feel bad for you.
Then see my post #143 and help us along! I won't say how I feel for you because that will only set us back. I'm trying my best to feel charitable toward more modern and better informed Christians. My opinion used to be that they were inventing new interpretations of old stories in order to save a sinking ship.

Now I've risked asking for your new interpretations of stories such as 'Adam and Eve', as just one example.

Or, if you still maintain that to be literally true, pick another.

Don't blame me for all the confusion. A sampling of the believers on this board would likely yield a 50/50 response on that story to begin with. Partly because no Christian has yet claimed that it isn't literally true. Except for maybe you?

I'm agreeing to lay the literal truth aside with both of you, so we can begin to explore the allegorical messages.
 
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I pray rosaries for reparations for the souls of him and his lot.

It's the most gratifying of all my prayers.


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I'm getting a message, in my soul, if you must. I just prefer to think of it as a though that results from you saying that you're praying for me. Not exactly the 'prayer result' itself.

My 'soul' is content. Rather, my thoughts are contented, but I can sense that you're not right now.

Can you help with our discussion on the allegorical meaning of the 'Noah's ark story? Or are you a literal believer? We don't have any of the latter yet!
 
There are so far literally zero believers in a literally true bible anymore.

Or is ir just literally true to say that they're all ashamed of saying so?

Meriweather and Ding have made their mark on Christians who frequent this board!

Add your name to the list of true believers who won't backslide into accepting the allegory:

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The god is watching. If you're too embarrassed to state publicly then you can still tell him in your prayers!

Let's just assume for now that there are Zero literal believers present.
 
Then see my post #143 and help us along! I won't say how I feel for you because that will only set us back. I'm trying my best to feel charitable toward more modern and better informed Christians. My opinion used to be that they were inventing new interpretations of old stories in order to save a sinking ship.

Now I've risked asking for your new interpretations of stories such as 'Adam and Eve', as just one example.

Or, if you still maintain that to be literally true, pick another.

Don't blame me for all the confusion. A sampling of the believers on this board would likely yield a 50/50 response on that story to begin with. Partly because no Christian has yet claimed that it isn't literally true. Except for maybe you?

I'm agreeing to lay the literal truth aside with both of you, so we can begin to explore the allegorical messages.
Try harder.
 
Are you learning something about the spiritual world? Can you give us a meaning for the Noah's ark story, so that others can learn too?
I read this a long time ago, but as I recall it was Rabbinical commentary on the story of Noah. Basic points: We have a story told/written in hindsight. Here is what can be gleaned from this.

The people looked back and regretted what they had become; they had become corrupt. Note that they did not blame God for the flood, they blamed themselves. Something major had to happen to restore justice to the land.

What, exactly, had the people been doing that was so horrible. Noah was said to have been righteous. You wonder...what was so different about Noah? Read the story. Throughout the building of the ark, and the duration of the flood, Noah didn't say anything.

Back in that history and culture, everyone saw words as powerful, that words could cause things to happen. Finally Noah speaks. And what was that speech. Answer: He calls a curse down upon a member of his family. And as the Biblical story continues, we see the trouble this brings to New Beginnings and where that trouble leads.

Reflection: What harm have words started in our families, our neighborhoods, our community, our workplace. What could we have left unsaid?

Throughout Biblical stories, the people fail to consider, or perhaps even see, the weight of sin. Let's bring in science which shows that for every action there is a reaction. In the same way, think how every action of sin creates a reaction from justice. Actions were corrupt and reaction from justice came upon them in the form of a flood.

I pay very little attention to "End Times". Even so, that's not to say that even though I doubt it will be End Times just yet, I can see justice (in some way) swinging back towards us. We've set too much corruption in motion.
 
I read this a long time ago, but as I recall it was Rabbinical commentary on the story of Noah. Basic points: We have a story told/written in hindsight. Here is what can be gleaned from this.
Thank you for taking the time to share that. There's some substance there on which I can comment.
The people looked back and regretted what they had become; they had become corrupt. Note that they did not blame God for the flood, they blamed themselves.
I only note that the story teller has put the regretting and the flood in reverse order. But too I can say that the people displayed enough regret to accept death as punishment, when that would be very much out of character for 'those' people.
Something major had to happen to restore justice to the land.
History tells us that would be true in some cases.
What, exactly, had the people been doing that was so horrible. Noah was said to have been righteous. You wonder...what was so different about Noah? Read the story.

History can't tell us of a people who accepted death and destruction, but it gives us the Roman empire as an example as perhaps an example of why an empire would fall.

Throughout the building of the ark, and the duration of the flood, Noah didn't say anything.
We can't refer to the building of the ark, because it's not literally true.
History can't tell us of a people who accepted death and destruction, but it gives us the Roman empire as an example as perhaps an example of why an empire would fall.
Back in that history and culture, everyone saw words as powerful, that words could cause things to happen. Finally Noah speaks. And what was that speech. Answer: He calls a curse down upon a member of his family. And as the Biblical story continues, we see the trouble this brings to New Beginnings and where that trouble leads.
Curses were certainly believed to be real and powerful in times such as that imagined.
Trouble coming out of the pronouncing of a curse, but not as a result of the curse.
Reflection: What harm have words started in our families, our neighborhoods, our community, our workplace. What could we have left unsaid?
Yes, mere words. Nothing was left unsaid, of which the storyteller is referring. Sometimes thing should be left unsaid and other times it's better that something was said.
Throughout Biblical stories, the people fail to consider, or perhaps even see, the weight of sin. Let's bring in science which shows that for every action there is a reaction. In the same way, think how every action of sin creates a reaction from justice. Actions were corrupt and reaction from justice came upon them in the form of a flood.
I can only say that there was no global flood, but perhaps the story is told with huge exaggerations on a local flood?
We can't get into talking about literally true stories here. However, every action of sin can sometimes create a reaction from justice. But most often not.
I pay very little attention to "End Times". Even so, that's not to say that even though I doubt it will be End Times just yet, I can see justice (in some way) swinging back towards us. We've set too much corruption in motion.
Corruption has resulted in wars and sometimes that's brought success and sometimes it's brought total destruction and a new beginning. Is there any other end point possible as a result of corruption? Reform?

Have I missed any important point in the story? A very corrupt people were punished but only after having suffered punishment? There was no possibility of reform offered or received. Save perhaps Noah's family.

But the end result is that the story depends on literal truth for the ark and not an allegorical message.

My request from you was asking you to explain the allegorical message that you have learned from your current studies.
 
Try harder.
See Meri's and my discussion on the Noah's ark story. You can add something if you keep in mind that the story isn't supposed to be literally true?
 
Are you claiming that you missed Post #83 when the discussion was about the traditions of going to a priest for confession and of Jesus appointing Apostles to proclaim the forgiveness of sins? Two passages were given there. The result: You change the question to an entirely different subject.

In the original discussion. You said you dislike the Catholic faith because of Confession. I respond with the scripture passages and traditions upon which Confession is founded. You ask who forgives sins. The discussion isn't about who forgives sins, because I believe you agree with me and everyone else on who forgives sins.

In another post I listed the contrast that can occur between Protestant and Catholic perspectives. Many times it seems Protestants are saying, It's this OR that. The Catholic perspective is wider in that we often go with, "Yes, AND ....."

For example, Protestants are of the mind that sin is only between God and each individual sinner and going to only to God is all that is needed. They are completely satisfied with this. Catholics see sin as not only against God, but against the entire community/Church. Not only do we confess to God (daily scrutiny of conscience) AND we also to one who represents the community.

Another example: Many Protestants say Communion is in memory of Jesus and are satisfied with this. Catholics say, Yes AND we are consuming the living body, blood, and divinity of Jesus.

Here is the difference: I do not dislike Protestant denominations because they do not have Confession or because they hold no belief in consuming the body, blood, and divinity of Christ. Yet here in the forums are posts from people who say they dislike the Catholic faith because of Confession, of Transubstantiation, of praying for those who have passed on, of praying the Rosary.
Why the disturbance (or dislike) over what Catholics do? Again the question: Do you dislike Islam because they do bow towards Mecca? Do you dislike Judaism because they do avoid certain foods? If you don't, why do fellow Christians dislike what we do? It's not as if your denominations has you facing Mecca, avoiding certain foods, go to Confession, accept Transubstantiation, pray the Rosary, etc.


1. Yes we were discussing the forgiveness of sins. I say that only God can forgive our sins, Catholics disagree with the Bible and say that priests can also forgive sins which is a major contradiction here.

2. What does communion have to do with it as I'm a big believer in communion.

3. Yes I dislike every religion that goes against the Word of God.


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It's a pretty hilarious idea to imagine that you believe Christ is human, and therefore consuming His flesh and blood is tantamount to cannibalism.



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Christ was human as He was God in the flesh.
 
Catholics disagree with the Bible and say that priests can also forgive sins which is a major contradiction here.
No, Catholics don't disagree with the Bible. No one should miss that Jesus assigned a responsibility to his Church, through the Apostles and their successors. It is the duty of the Church to assure the repentant that sins are forgiven. It is also the duty of the Church to convey the unrepentant that they are in danger of forfeiting the mercy of God's forgiveness.

Why insist that a priest assuring people and/or conveying a message of God's forgiveness is the same as a priest forgiving and/or retaining sins?

Again, I assert your issue is that you don't want to go to Confession, and that is your business.

Where you are going beyond the pale is asserting priests forgive sins. That is false. Priests assure/convey God's forgiveness of the penitent's sins. If someone is not penitent, the priest points to Jesus' and Apostolic teaching that it is repentance for the forgiveness of sins and can guide that person in the way of repentance.
 
I only note that the story teller has put the regretting and the flood in reverse order.
Perhaps look up using the third person-omniscient point of view in telling a story.
 
I can only say that there was no global flood,
Who said anything about a global flood? The Hebrew does not refer to the planet, but to the ground...soil, dirt, earth, dust, land, even farm.
 
Have I missed any important point in the story? A very corrupt people were punished but only after having suffered punishment? There was no possibility of reform offered or received. Save perhaps Noah's family.
The point overlooked is that Adam and Eve chose to have knowledge of both good and evil. People therefore knew what was good and what was evil. They were choosing evil/corruption. They could have reformed any time they chose to do so. Keep in mind that Noah was referred to as righteous, so at least he was seen/known as choosing good over evil.
 
Who said anything about a global flood? The Hebrew does not refer to the planet, but to the ground...soil, dirt, earth, dust, land, even farm.
The ark suggests a worldwide flood, but referring to the ground, soil, dirt, earth, dust, etc. is what you're studying and you've agreed that we can talk about.

Remember, I've agreed that I won't refer to those bible stories not being literally true. Then you force the discussion back to the 'literal truth' questions.
 
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