Zone1 Question For Catholics

[Donald H]

Evil is an adjective. It is not a person, not a place, not a thing. It describes a person, place, or thing.

Evil can be an adjective but I think it's more commonly used as a noun.

'deliver us from evil'

In my previous post I was asking for some 'adjectives' to describe evil.

It's a moot point.

 

[ding]

See Meri's and my discussion on the Noah's ark story. You can add something if you keep in mind that the story isn't supposed to be literally true?

I’ll pass. I find you to be boring and idiotic.

 

[Leo123]

Wrong. Science has produced a 'tree of life' showing how life forms evolved. Most rational people accept it but even rational Christians accept it if humans are not shown on the tree.

99+% of life shown on the tree isn't currently existing.

No, there is no intelligent designer. We'll just have to disagree, unless you can keep iit suitably simple enough for me to understand.

We’re talking first life. Where did it come from? If I give you all the components of a living cell you still could not make a living cell.

 

[Leo123]

I'm not a biologist but you could ask questions of Richard Dawkins.

In any case, the ID'ers in the Dover case were thoroughly discredited and defeated. Maybe there should be a rematch? The end result isn't going to be any different.

Personally, as a lay person, I'm left with relying on science's track record on proving the lies of creation.

Here! I'll pick the fight for us: Why does the bible fk up with having the earth created and life created, before the sun?

Creation worked before Darwin but it's seen its 'best before' date more than 100 years ago.

Total nonsense. Did you know that Darwin believed in God?

 

[Donald H]

Total nonsense. Did you know that Darwin believed in God?

Charles Darwin's beliefs about God are not entirely clear. While some scholars believe he was an agnostic or atheist, there is no definitive evidence. His correspondence with a Christian missionary revealed that his opinions on religion fluctuated, and he considered himself not an atheist but an agnostic who believed in a higher being. However, his writings are often silent on the issue.

totallyhistory.com+1
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=28da...20vY2hhcmxlcy1kYXJ3aW4tb24tcmVsaWdpb24v&ntb=1
As would be expected of Darwin.https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=28da...20vY2hhcmxlcy1kYXJ3aW4tb24tcmVsaWdpb24v&ntb=1

 

[Donald H]

We’re talking first life. Where did it come from? If I give you all the components of a living cell you still could not make a living cell.

No, you weren't talking first life, but I have no objection if you do.

Your evidence that the god did it 6000 years ago is a bit questionable!

Which proposition is more believable?

1. the god created life 6000-10,000 years ago.

2. Life began on earth 3.5 billion years ago.

 

[Leo123]

No, you weren't talking first life, but I have no objection if you do.

Your evidence that the god did it 6000 years ago is a bit questionable!

Which proposition is more believable?

1. the god created life 6000-10,000 years ago.

2. Life began on earth 3.5 billion years ago.

The question is not when but how. I never mentioned 6000 years ago or 3.5 billion years ago. I never even mentioned God I mentioned an intellect.

 

[Leo123]

Here's my logic: Evil can be destroyed by drowning those who commit to doing evil. There can't be evil on earth when everything is dead.
Am I missing your point? I'm sincerely trying not to miss anything. Evil was apparently punished by drowning. l

Or rather more accurately, the message was that evil would be punished.

A great flood isn't a suitable way to separate the evil from the good, but I doubt there is any message to people living in the 21st. century. For myself, I can't help thinking that the whole story isn't possible.

Still, I don't doubt the message Be bad and god will kill you. or......

Fail to believe and god will kill you, and it won't be an easy death. It will be the cruelest death one could imagine!

I have to wonder just what the evil could be? It's only ever inferred to be the sin of not believing. Highly unfair IMO.

Evil lies within everyone. We have the free will to choose it or control it.

 

[Donald H]

The question is not when but how. I never mentioned 6000 years ago or 3.5 billion years ago. I never even mentioned God I mentioned an intellect.

No, it's me that is mentioning the god and 6000 years ago. You don't get to just update the bible beliefs when they get too ridiculous for the present modern world.

 

[Leo123]

No, it's me that is mentioning the god and 6000 years ago. You don't get to just update the bible beliefs when they get too ridiculous for the present modern world.

I was not referring to the Bible, just science and logic.

 

[Donald H]

Evil lies within everyone. We have the free will to choose it or control it.

Some don't.

Some states can't choose to stop capital punishment.

Some Christians can't stop promoting slavery and that's because their bibles justify it.

Both are evil.

I was not referring to the Bible, just science and logic.

Contribute something to the discussion or I'll leave you talking to yourself. You've had enough time to fit in by now.

 

[Donald H]

We’re talking first life.

No.

it merely chronicles existing life for which there has to be an intellect to create it.

And already we can say that you're willing to lie for your god!

 

[Leo123]

No.



And already we can say that you're willing to lie for your god!

You don’t want to discuss, you want to argue and insult.

 

[Leo123]

Some don't.

Some states can't choose to stop capital punishment.

Some Christians can't stop promoting slavery and that's because their bibles justify it.

Both are evil.

Contribute something to the discussion or I'll leave you talking to yourself. You've had enough time to fit in by now.

You choose to insult. That is evil.

 

[Meriweather]

Here's my logic: Evil can be destroyed by drowning those who commit to doing evil. There can't be evil on earth when everything is dead.
Am I missing your point? I'm sincerely trying not to miss anything. Evil was apparently punished by drowning. l

Or rather more accurately, the message was that evil would be punished.

In Post #182 ding mentioned boredom, and I agree. I find that people who wish to discuss God with anyone of the faithful, but still can't be bothered to capitalize God, the being we know as loving, good, holy broadcasts intentions to be even more disrespectful.

Donald, when you keep dismissing and ignoring the Bible's foundational point and twist into and unfounded starting point of your own making, we get nowhere, and that is what is so boring (after it gets past being frustrating).

What you are missing: God is Good. God is Love. God is Whole. God is Holy. That is why there is no point in continuing this discussion. The Biblical story of Noah starts out with premise and then turns to describe humans as corrupt beings. God made humans to be good, and that was great...for awhile, but then humans decided they weren't satisfying knowing just Good. Like God, they wanted to know both good and evil. How is this going? Humans get what they choose, and many humans began missing the mark, began choosing the not-so-good over the good.

Along comes the account of Noah's Ark and the stories following it.

We choose to know evil? Fine. Here are some of the lessons that go along with it. Justice (Karma if you like) strikes back. So why don't we get slapped down instantly, every instant we do something wrong? Another lesson about evil: Mercy comes first, and in mercy we find an invitation back into loving and goodness. (Some have said wryly that sometimes it seems that mercy mocks justice, which can be an interesting reflection because justice, too, is a necessity.) The next lesson is for us to learn how to bring good out of evil.

In many respects we are spiritual beings seeking a physical experience--a learning experience if you will--about good and evil. We have as our instructor a Father who has already reached that pinnacle and is all good, all loving, all knowing.

 

[Donald H]

In Post #182 ding mentioned boredom, and I agree. I find that people who wish to discuss God with anyone of the faithful, but still can't be bothered to capitalize God, the being we know as loving, good, holy broadcasts intentions to be even more disrespectful.

Donald, when you keep dismissing and ignoring the Bible's foundational point and twist into and unfounded starting point of your own making, we get nowhere, and that is what is so boring (after it gets past being frustrating).

I can capitalize the word 'God' if it's that important to you. It's my gesture of goodwill. I'm trying to meet all your demands and terms, but how I'm failing is not apparent to me. I've even agreed to only talk about either the 'literally true' or the 'allegorical' in the bible and keep the two separate.

What you are missing: God is Good. God is Love. God is Whole. God is Holy.

I'm not rebutting those but I don't feel that there should be any onus on me to pronounce the God having those qualities. And I've never opened the topic on slavery or mass murder found in the bibles.

That is why there is no point in continuing this discussion. The Biblical story of Noah starts out with premise and then turns to describe humans as corrupt beings.

The only premise I'm aware of is the literal story. I'm being completely cooperative in acceptinig your interpretation on whether that's to be believed to be literally true or just allegory with an important message?

God made humans to be good, and that was great...for awhile, but then humans decided they weren't satisfying knowing just Good. Like God, they wanted to know both good and evil. How is this going? Humans get what they choose, and many humans began missing the mark, began choosing the not-so-good over the good.

If we are to accept the story to be literally true, then that might be the only explanation for the God's mistake.
The tree of life that includes humans tells an entirely different story.

I'm not pursuing the entirely different story because that's not what you want to hear!

Along comes the account of Noah's Ark and the stories following it.

We choose to know evil? Fine. Here are some of the lessons that go along with it. Justice (Karma if you like) strikes back. So why don't we get slapped down instantly, every instant we do something wrong? Another lesson about evil: Mercy comes first, and in mercy we find an invitation back into loving and goodness. (Some have said wryly that sometimes it seems that mercy mocks justice, which can be an interesting reflection because justice, too, is a necessity.) The next lesson is for us to learn how to bring good out of evil.

That contains a question and I always try to answer your questions the best I can. The reason why we don't get punished instantly when we do something wrong? Perhaps the reason why you can't punish me for my opinions? Do you have a better answer or another opinion?

In many respects we are spiritual beings seeking a physical experience--a learning experience if you will--about good and evil. We have as our instructor a Father who has already reached that pinnacle and is all good, all loving, all knowing.

Don't change! The comments I've made have led you to express your certainty and faith in your beliefs. You're not like Ding and the others to turn to bad behaviour when questioned and challenged.

The only credit I'll attempt to own is the credit I receive for asking questions that you are finding are needing of answers or replies.

I think that you're handling dissenting opinions the best way you can. I'm trying to cooperate with your method because the methods of Ding and the others are disgusting and a complete waste of our time.

The method speaks well for you but it speaks horribly bad for other Christians in general.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not rebutting those but I don't feel that there should be any onus on me to pronounce the God having those qualities. And I've never opened the topic on slavery or mass murder found in the bibles.

When you begin reading a story, do you make character changes to the people in the story? The Biblical story states that God is good, loving, perfect (whole), and holy. I am not insisting you believe in God, only that you respect the writer's descriptions of the characters in the story. If God's character is changed, the story changes. Analogy: Instead of The Wizard of Oz you have Wicked or a bastardization of The Wizard of Oz.

 

[Meriweather]

If we are to accept the story to be literally true, then that might be the only explanation for the God's mistake.
The tree of life that includes humans tells an entirely different story.

We are not speaking of the Tree of Life, but the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Two different trees.

 

[Meriweather]

The only premise I'm aware of is the literal story.

And that's another error. My premise is the literal part of the story is the story's theme or lesson. The setting for this lesson is the flood. The theme is the what if we were offered a new beginning. Would the outcome be any different? What would it take for the outcome to change?

What happens when one tries to pick the story apart? The big picture is lost. We see people off looking for evidence that the entire planet was flooded; whether an ark of that size could float or survive a flood; if an ark that size could house all the animals; what about the innocent babies, etc.

 

[Donald H]

We are not speaking of the Tree of Life, but the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Two different trees.

I was talking about this:

the tree of life - Search Videos

Make no mistake my friend, I've moved toward your thinking priorities as far as I can.

It's a wonderful story and it's narrated beautifully by Attenborough.

My understanding at this point in our discussion is that you are in agreement with what is said. But that is conditional on the understanding that the God created everything.

If we're going to continue our discussion, that condition is what we have to talk about!

That's not me saying that we can't also talk about the tree of knowledge.