Q for Followers of Jesus

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by Joz
Don't play stupid, here. You know exactly what I mean. I get to see it all the time.

Uh oh. im not playing...

 

[Modu$OperanDi]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
"Seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given, knock and it shall be opened unto you" Find in yourself the desire to learn the truth. then study the scriptures pray, experiment on the teaching you find in the scriptures by living them, seek for God and ask Him with a sincere heart and you will find Him.

I have plenty of desire to learn the truth FYI. All the questions you posted which back religion, e.g. - What happens after one dies? Are unanswerable. And are severely uncomfortable. The only reason for religion is to deal with these unsettling questions. When you 'found god', you just gave yourself an unconcious comfort level which helps you live your life.

Science is a route to spirituality, you are close-minded to not think so. Why was this universe created? Are there infinite universes? How does life evolve from matter? That is the search for spiritual truth, I pray in a sense - I think about whether this Universe is 'aware of me' and what willl happen when I die - and I feel comfort in knowing that everyone else goes through it and that there IS NO POSSIBLE WAY that one's life can be judged and then divided between heaven and hell because experiences make the man, and childhood experiences are out of ones control.

This insight is all useless to you however, you didn't even answer my question! A question that is so vital to the credibility of Christianty that you could only ignore it.

 

[Joz]

Originally posted by Modu$OperanDi
...... What happens after one dies? Are unanswerable. And are severely uncomfortable. The only reason for religion is to deal with these unsettling questions. When you 'found god', you just gave yourself an unconcious comfort level which helps you live your life.

Depends on whether you believe the Bible. The 'death' question is answered there.

You misunderstand christianity. If you think being one gives a person life comfort you have NO idea what you're talking about. The ONLY comfort Christians have is the promise that all this will be worth it, if we're faithful. Not that it will be easy.

 

[Modu$OperanDi]

Exactly. The answers which the bible gives are easy to believe, and give you a way to 'save yourself', which is comforting. Which is the point of religion. And the fact that the bible's 'answers' are ridiculous is of absolutely no importance, because there is no reason to change.

So many children who say they are Christian don't even know why, just because their parents are. They don't even need to think about the logic behing it.

 

[Modu$OperanDi]

But will a Christian PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION:

Assuming you understand and accept the level of vastness of not only life, but intelligent life existing in this universe, what would you say for the trillions of other species resembling our own in present times and over the last 12 billion years?

Have they all really been blessed with a single divine individual (like Jesus) who brought forth the word of the almighty creator?


Please answer this, because this is exactly the type of question that the bible ignores because it was written befre the advancement of our SCIENTIFIC knowledge, which is clearly important to religion.

If you don't believe in the vastness of life in the universe, then you are probobally a fundamentalist and not worth talking to.

 

[musicman]

To: Modu$OperanDi

You're belief in the "Gospel according to Gene Roddenberry" requires, at least, as much faith as does my belief in the Bible.

 

[Joz]

Originally posted by Modu$OperanDi
But will a Christian PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION:........

I'd swallow the bait, but your mind is already set. You're not looking for answers, you're looking for an argument.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Joz

But will a Christian PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION:........

I'd swallow the bait, but your mind is already set. You're not looking for answers, you're looking for an argument.

Did Jesus family members think he was nuts, how soon did they forget about his miracles and miraculous birth.

Mark 3:20-21 (KJV)

20 And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread.
21When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

Is it not strange that Jesus' own family, including his mother did not know that he was the Messiah and the son of god? Not only did they not know this, but they believed him to be mentally out of his mind.

When Jesus was informed that his mother and brothers were looking for him, he displayed in his response, hostile feelings toward them, denying the Jewish importance of family relationships. (Mark 3:31-35, Matthew 12:46-50, Luke 8:19-21.) This was an expression of his ressenment at their refusal to accept his messianic declartions. "For neither did his brothers believe in him" (John 7:5). It is no wonder that Jesus declared: "A prophet is not without honor except in his home town and among his relatives and his house." (Mark 6:4). How could Mary, the mother of Jesus, forget so easily the visits of the angels, magi, and shepherds, or the prophecies of Anna and Simeon, in the Temple, and most of all her own impregnation by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Joz
Depends on whether you believe the Bible. The 'death' question is answered there.

You misunderstand christianity. If you think being one gives a person life comfort you have NO idea what you're talking about. The ONLY comfort Christians have is the promise that all this will be worth it, if we're faithful. Not that it will be easy.

Sorry, but there has been no independently and repeatedly verifiable case of anyone coming back from the dead to report on conditions in the afterlife. Since we can have no direct knowledge of what happens after we die, the best we can do is speculate. SUch speculations though are fruitless as there is no means of verifying them.

As for creation, while we can not have direct experience of the past, the best we can do is speculate, but there is a vast, and growing, body of evidence regarding cosmogenesis which in no way involves a supreme being. In the choice between faith and physical evidence, faith gets trumped every time.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by musicman
To: Modu$OperanDi

You're belief in the "Gospel according to Gene Roddenberry" requires, at least, as much faith as does my belief in the Bible.

J.R.R. Tolkiens, "<b><i>The Silmarillion</i></b>" presents a cosmology at least as valid as that of the Bible.

 

[musicman]

Originally posted by Modu$OperanDi:

".....this is exactly the type of question that the bible ignores because it was written before the advancement of our SCIENTIFIC knowledge.....".



Have you ever considered just how laughable our puffed-up, SCIENTIFIC arrogance must appear to the one who spoke the universe into existence?

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit

As for creation, while we can not have direct experience of the past, the best we can do is speculate, but there is a vast, and growing, body of evidence regarding cosmogenesis which in no way involves a supreme being. In the choice between faith and physical evidence, faith gets trumped every time.

Which in no way involves a supreme being.

Cosmogenesis: Or 'genesis formation of the cosmos.' What evidence can you submit that precludes the formation or creation of the cosmos by an unseen hand?

The old argument applies here. If you are walking through a field and you accidentally note a pocket watch on the ground, does that imply that there was no watchmaker?

Maybe over trillions of years, wind, sand, sun beams, moon beams and a lot of fuzz somehow formed that complex watch with its springs, wheels, clock face, metal holder, etc with no UNSEEN HAND.....

What is the chance???

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by musicman

".....this is exactly the type of question that the bible ignores because it was written before the advancement of our SCIENTIFIC knowledge.....". Have you ever considered just how laughable our puffed-up, SCIENTIFIC arrogance must appear to the one who spoke the universe into existence?

Perchance the One who created the universe and all that it contains used science as His tools and that he may have wanted mankind to know some of what He had done.

How arrogrant and puffed-up it is to say that G-d in His infinite wisdom did no more than speak things into existence but instead used His own natural means to create and continue to create our existence.

Sometimes you seem to speak out for a G-d that has not given you a hint of how and why He does things.

 

[Joz]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Sorry, but there has been no independently and repeatedly verifiable case of anyone coming back from the dead......

Which was my point, exactly.

Except Christ.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Joz

Originally posted by Bullypulpit

Sorry, but there has been no independently and repeatedly verifiable case of anyone coming back from the dead......

Which was my point, exactly.

Except Christ.

Exactly what independent and repeatedly verifiable evidence do you have the Christ returned from the dead?

There is actually proof that Christ Jesus did not die on the cross but recovered from his 3 hour ordeal, was healed and then moved to France where he and his wife had children. Christ's children also had children whose great, great, great grandchildren live in France to this very day.

see http://www.bookfinder.us/review4/0440136482.html for verified proof.

 

[Joz]

Originally posted by ajwps

Why, may I ask, do you try so hard to disprove someone's beliefs?

I said long ago, you either believe it [the Bible] or you don't, and you live accordingly. It's that simple.

If I'm right, I'm promised eternal life. If you're right, what is your reward?

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by ajwps
Exactly what independent and repeatedly verifiable evidence do you have the Christ returned from the dead?

There is actually proof that Christ Jesus did not die on the cross but recovered from his 3 hour ordeal, was healed and then moved to France where he and his wife had children. Christ's children also had children whose great, great, great grandchildren live in France to this very day.

see http://www.bookfinder.us/review4/0440136482.html for verified proof.

Well, dare i ask how you are going to verify that anyone has survived being crucified short of crucifying someone to find out?

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Joz

Why, may I ask, do you try so hard to disprove someone's beliefs?

Why do you try so hard to disprove someone elses belief in the G-d of creation instead of belief in a human relative born of an earth woman?

I said long ago, you either believe it [the Bible] or you don't, and you live accordingly. It's that simple.

May I reword your statement: "I said long ago, you either believe it (MY NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE) or you don't, and you live accordingly. It's that simple."

If I'm right, I'm promised eternal life. If you're right, what is your reward?

I do not live my life for a pie-in-the-sky reward or present. My reward is in living a life of mercy, justice, charity and walking with my G-d.

Whatever any humans fate might be is left up to the Creator. You have no idea of what you are going to get for a free ticket......

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Avatar4321

Well, dare i ask how you are going to verify that anyone has survived being crucified short of crucifying someone to find out?

Crucifixion was a common practice of the Romans. They used it to murder ten of thousands of human beings.

The process of crucifixion was not designed to kill instantly but to cause a slow, painful death which lasted usually more than a day.
The person crucified finally had their arms and legs broken so that the weight of the person could not be held up and the pressure on the diaphram was so great that the person died from suffociation or the inability to inhale or exhale. Jesus never had his arms or legs broken and no independent verificaiton of death was performed.

In Jesus' case, he was, according to the New Testament, on the cross for about three hours. He was given a drink at the end of a pole which was said to be a substance to ease his pain but no one knows if it was a sedative known at the time of Jesus.

He was, according to the gospel, stuck in his side with a spear but no one knows how deep the edge penetrated the chest wall. Accordingly he was said to be taken down on the third hour and prrepared for burial in the crypt. He appeared to be dead but there was no physician who could testifiy to brain or heart activity at that time in history.

It appears that after one and one-half days (not three full days) he had disappeared or was taken from the cave by his disciples and moved to a place where he could recover from his experience.

[taken down from the cross on Friday night and placed in a cave or crypt. Then on Sunday morning he was found to be gone from his burial place. So Friday evening before the Sabbath to Saturday evening was one day and Sunday morning was a half day]

He was reported to be seen by the disciples at a later date with the wounds in his hands and feet, apparently still fresh wounds but healing. As for his ascension, many magicians today can make people appear to rise off the ground appearing to break the rule of gravity. This magic trickwas known at the time of Jesus as well.

The rest has been uncovered by the investigators in Holy Blood Holy Grail where he was secretly taken with Mary Magdeline to France where he lived out his days.

Years later, a man named Paul of Tarsus used his early mystery religion (earth woman impregnated by a god, lived to preach, died again to save mankind for sin and rose to sky).

Now you question is answered as to how someone can be crucified and survived to tell the tale.

 

[Modu$OperanDi]

Wow.

To everyone who replied to my statements without answering my question - congratulations. You are unwilling to answer a simple question which threatens the validity of Christianity. You have proven why your beliefs are so popular.

Our 'puffed up' scientific knowledge NEVER has claimed to know the greater half of what is really going on 'out there'. In fact, it's just the opposite, it humbles us and opens our minds to the elegance of nature.

And I agree, my belief in scientific facts and theories does require faith, but it is clearly a much more logical, and well rounded faith - considering, once again, the stagnant and ancient qualities of Christianity and the bible.

My mind is EXTREMELY open, so open in fact, that I could never close it enough to be a Christian.


If my question is not answered by those who commented on my statements, and didn't - 'take the bait', then your faith is blind. My question is ABSOLUTELY fair, and honest. Your beliefs are plain and simply proven pathetic if you can't muster up an answer to my IMPORTANT question:


Do all other intelligent species existing in the 'present', and over the past 12 or so billion years, in this Universe, have one holy individual, such as Jesus, who was sent to give the words of the creator to their fellow 'man'?


That is, in fact, the basis of your religion. Is it not? The connection between man and God. This is how you believe it works, right? So are we the only species in this entire Universe to have been 'chosen'? Or does this trend spread thoughout the Universe?


Thank you, if you give an answer.