Problem with claiming the face of Jesus on Shroud of Turin

HaShev

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1) The church claimed to always have the shroud of Yehuda, but never ever said anywhere that they ever had Jesus shroud until it magically appeared claimed to be of Jesus, but now comparing Yehudas shroud side by side is never ever seen or done, amazing how that works.
2) The shroud is dated to the period of other fake relics surfacing to deceive and validate a historical claim to a fictitious character.
Church was famous for these scams justified by the claim it helped seal faith.
Anyone remember the skull of Jesus incident, where they swore & claimed the relic was the skull of Jesus only to be proven to be a female skull?
3) The claimed blood was tested as mere clay.
4) the figure is of a man over 6 feet tall yet the OT says Jesus was only 4' 6" and we know Jews were a small race while people back then were shorter then the avg today.
5) John describes Jesus as clean shaven also described as almost feminine while the shroud shows a bearded rugged aged worn man surely looking older then 33.
6) The claim the shroud was made by a phosphorus (luciferous) light on ascension is admitting Jesus was Lucifer and worse he himself admitted he descended , but in John he told Mary to lie and say he ascended to his father (which he never names).
7) The story of Lucifer being the angel of phosphorus light descending from heaven and ascending back and forth to scout out mankind is what the shroud snake oil salesmen are are making out the man in the shroud to be. They are creating an alien story and saying 1/3 of God's messengers in heaven (aka future perfected) fall for this fallen prophet Lucifer, yet they are that 1/3 claiming to message about God when they are a message about this icon instead, that even deceived the elect. They are selling Baal worship through Baals son the morning star-rev 22:16 who is a mere mask, hence they admit father and son are one.
8) If someone is merely time traveling or an alien droping down as they are describing in the miraculous event, that does not make them the source and force of all life. This means they are being sent by another, have one greater then they and that is exactly what the message was in his ministry. Also said you'd come in his name & call him christ and deceive many while doing horrendous acts in his name. THE shroud is selling Lucifer, trying to legitimize the image Rome created, while the media is using their lies & errors trying to get ratings or higher subscriptions.
 

Delta4Embassy

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Another problem springs to mind. A shroud not made to do so, isn't likely to survive for 2000 or so years.
 
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HaShev

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They will just claim that a miracle. They have an excuse for everything. *L*
 

Delta4Embassy

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Very few manmade things last 2000 years and beyond. Modern CD/DVDs fall apart after only a century or two and that's a hard plastic designed to whirl around at insane speeds. A pieceo of fabric made for cheap and not intended to last very long would degrade, get eaten by moths, etc. after only a few decades if that. Even the Biblical texts haven't done very well as most of them are just fragments at this point.
 

Delta4Embassy

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Interestingly, even the lump of metal weighing precisely 1 kilogram doesn't any more.

"How much is a kilogram? It turns out that nobody can say for sure, at least not in a way that won't change ever so slightly over time. The official kilogram -- a cylinder cast 118 years ago from platinum and iridium and known as the International Prototype Kilogram or "Le Gran K" -- has been losing mass, about 50 micrograms at last check. Now two US professors say it's time to define the kilogram in a new and more elegant way. They've launched a campaign aimed at redefining the kilogram as the mass of a very large -- but precisely-specified -- number of carbon-12 atoms."

If even that can 'dissolve' over time, what chance has any piece of fabric got of making it 2000 years?
 

Penelope

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1) The church claimed to always have the shroud of Yehuda, but never ever said anywhere that they ever had Jesus shroud until it magically appeared claimed to be of Jesus, but now comparing Yehudas shroud side by side is never ever seen or done, amazing how that works.
2) The shroud is dated to the period of other fake relics surfacing to deceive and validate a historical claim to a fictitious character.
Church was famous for these scams justified by the claim it helped seal faith.
Anyone remember the skull of Jesus incident, where they swore & claimed the relic was the skull of Jesus only to be proven to be a female skull?
3) The claimed blood was tested as mere clay.
4) the figure is of a man over 6 feet tall yet the OT says Jesus was only 4' 6" and we know Jews were a small race while people back then were shorter then the avg today.
5) John describes Jesus as clean shaven also described as almost feminine while the shroud shows a bearded rugged aged worn man surely looking older then 33.
6) The claim the shroud was made by a phosphorus (luciferous) light on ascension is admitting Jesus was Lucifer and worse he himself admitted he descended , but in John he told Mary to lie and say he ascended to his father (which he never names).
7) The story of Lucifer being the angel of phosphorus light descending from heaven and ascending back and forth to scout out mankind is what the shroud snake oil salesmen are are making out the man in the shroud to be. They are creating an alien story and saying 1/3 of God's messengers in heaven (aka future perfected) fall for this fallen prophet Lucifer, yet they are that 1/3 claiming to message about God when they are a message about this icon instead, that even deceived the elect. They are selling Baal worship through Baals son the morning star-rev 22:16 who is a mere mask, hence they admit father and son are one.
8) If someone is merely time traveling or an alien droping down as they are describing in the miraculous event, that does not make them the source and force of all life. This means they are being sent by another, have one greater then they and that is exactly what the message was in his ministry. Also said you'd come in his name & call him christ and deceive many while doing horrendous acts in his name. THE shroud is selling Lucifer, trying to legitimize the image Rome created, while the media is using their lies & errors trying to get ratings or higher subscriptions.
Where in the OT say that Jesus was only 4' 6" ??
 

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No where. OT doesn't mention Jesus. Any verison that does is a screwed up translation version written by stupid people, for even stupider people.
 

hadit

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1) The church claimed to always have the shroud of Yehuda, but never ever said anywhere that they ever had Jesus shroud until it magically appeared claimed to be of Jesus, but now comparing Yehudas shroud side by side is never ever seen or done, amazing how that works.
2) The shroud is dated to the period of other fake relics surfacing to deceive and validate a historical claim to a fictitious character.
Church was famous for these scams justified by the claim it helped seal faith.
Anyone remember the skull of Jesus incident, where they swore & claimed the relic was the skull of Jesus only to be proven to be a female skull?
3) The claimed blood was tested as mere clay.
4) the figure is of a man over 6 feet tall yet the OT says Jesus was only 4' 6" and we know Jews were a small race while people back then were shorter then the avg today.
5) John describes Jesus as clean shaven also described as almost feminine while the shroud shows a bearded rugged aged worn man surely looking older then 33.
6) The claim the shroud was made by a phosphorus (luciferous) light on ascension is admitting Jesus was Lucifer and worse he himself admitted he descended , but in John he told Mary to lie and say he ascended to his father (which he never names).
7) The story of Lucifer being the angel of phosphorus light descending from heaven and ascending back and forth to scout out mankind is what the shroud snake oil salesmen are are making out the man in the shroud to be. They are creating an alien story and saying 1/3 of God's messengers in heaven (aka future perfected) fall for this fallen prophet Lucifer, yet they are that 1/3 claiming to message about God when they are a message about this icon instead, that even deceived the elect. They are selling Baal worship through Baals son the morning star-rev 22:16 who is a mere mask, hence they admit father and son are one.
8) If someone is merely time traveling or an alien droping down as they are describing in the miraculous event, that does not make them the source and force of all life. This means they are being sent by another, have one greater then they and that is exactly what the message was in his ministry. Also said you'd come in his name & call him christ and deceive many while doing horrendous acts in his name. THE shroud is selling Lucifer, trying to legitimize the image Rome created, while the media is using their lies & errors trying to get ratings or higher subscriptions.
Where in the OT say that Jesus was only 4' 6" ??
It also doesn't say He was clean shaven. In fact, His beard was torn out in clumps. While we don't know how the shroud was made, it's not Jesus depicted on it. He wasn't white.
 

hadit

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No where. OT doesn't mention Jesus. Any verison that does is a screwed up translation version written by stupid people, for even stupider people.
Actually, it is all about Him, just doesn't use His name.
 

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No where. OT doesn't mention Jesus. Any verison that does is a screwed up translation version written by stupid people, for even stupider people.
Actually, it is all about Him, just doesn't use His name.
It's all about the Moshiach. Jesus was not the Moshiach. Prophecies for the Moshiach spell out very clearly what he'll do. Jesus didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy.
 

hadit

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No where. OT doesn't mention Jesus. Any verison that does is a screwed up translation version written by stupid people, for even stupider people.
Actually, it is all about Him, just doesn't use His name.
It's all about the Moshiach. Jesus was not the Moshiach. Prophecies for the Moshiach spell out very clearly what he'll do. Jesus didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy.
Except for all of them, of course.
 

Delta4Embassy

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No where. OT doesn't mention Jesus. Any verison that does is a screwed up translation version written by stupid people, for even stupider people.
Actually, it is all about Him, just doesn't use His name.
It's all about the Moshiach. Jesus was not the Moshiach. Prophecies for the Moshiach spell out very clearly what he'll do. Jesus didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy.
Except for all of them, of course.
Name one. Did he build the 3rd temple, recall the world's Jews to Israel to abide by Torah, establish world peace?
 
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HaShev

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She probably meant NT.
the measurement given as 15 palms & a half is found in John I think if I remember right.
People miss it because they don't know the measurements used and it's conversion to lbs.
Josephus has him at about 5 feet.
Apocryphal Acts of John says he was of small stature.
Tertullian and Celsus describe him as short.
 

Penelope

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1) The church claimed to always have the shroud of Yehuda, but never ever said anywhere that they ever had Jesus shroud until it magically appeared claimed to be of Jesus, but now comparing Yehudas shroud side by side is never ever seen or done, amazing how that works.
2) The shroud is dated to the period of other fake relics surfacing to deceive and validate a historical claim to a fictitious character.
Church was famous for these scams justified by the claim it helped seal faith.
Anyone remember the skull of Jesus incident, where they swore & claimed the relic was the skull of Jesus only to be proven to be a female skull?
3) The claimed blood was tested as mere clay.
4) the figure is of a man over 6 feet tall yet the OT says Jesus was only 4' 6" and we know Jews were a small race while people back then were shorter then the avg today.
5) John describes Jesus as clean shaven also described as almost feminine while the shroud shows a bearded rugged aged worn man surely looking older then 33.
6) The claim the shroud was made by a phosphorus (luciferous) light on ascension is admitting Jesus was Lucifer and worse he himself admitted he descended , but in John he told Mary to lie and say he ascended to his father (which he never names).
7) The story of Lucifer being the angel of phosphorus light descending from heaven and ascending back and forth to scout out mankind is what the shroud snake oil salesmen are are making out the man in the shroud to be. They are creating an alien story and saying 1/3 of God's messengers in heaven (aka future perfected) fall for this fallen prophet Lucifer, yet they are that 1/3 claiming to message about God when they are a message about this icon instead, that even deceived the elect. They are selling Baal worship through Baals son the morning star-rev 22:16 who is a mere mask, hence they admit father and son are one.
8) If someone is merely time traveling or an alien droping down as they are describing in the miraculous event, that does not make them the source and force of all life. This means they are being sent by another, have one greater then they and that is exactly what the message was in his ministry. Also said you'd come in his name & call him christ and deceive many while doing horrendous acts in his name. THE shroud is selling Lucifer, trying to legitimize the image Rome created, while the media is using their lies & errors trying to get ratings or higher subscriptions.
Where in the OT say that Jesus was only 4' 6" ??
It also doesn't say He was clean shaven. In fact, His beard was torn out in clumps. While we don't know how the shroud was made, it's not Jesus depicted on it. He wasn't white.
Of course not, but I want to know where it says Jesus was 4'6" in the OT.
 

Penelope

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She probably meant NT.
the measurement given as 15 palms & a half is found in John I think if I remember right.
People miss it because they don't know the measurements used and it's conversion to lbs.
Josephus has him at about 5 feet.
Apocryphal Acts of John says he was of small stature.
Tertullian and Celsus describe him as short.
No in your post you said the OT. No where have I read that in John , or where Tertullian or Celsius describe him as short. I am aware men were shorter back then, but 4'6" for a grown man, I rather doubt that.(or Josephus)
 
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HaShev

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Hadit: all 300 or something claimed fulfillments are proven errors and lies using a lot of out of context and tense fallacious attempts.
The only 100% fulfillment is his being the fallen son of perdition in Ezekiel 28, the verses on lucifer can only be Jesus & nobody else since no other prophet was ever the first fallen messiah claiming to be a god nor called perfect and called anointed (Christ) cherub (guardian in Hebrew=Nazarene)-Ezekiel 28:14-15
 
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HaShev

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Sorry my post did say OT by obvious error, it's why I had to change the auto guess feature on this phone just hours earlier. I'll try and correct it, but my phone links to edit don't work right either. :(
I can't even get quote reply to work, whereby I have before.
 

hadit

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No where. OT doesn't mention Jesus. Any verison that does is a screwed up translation version written by stupid people, for even stupider people.
Actually, it is all about Him, just doesn't use His name.
It's all about the Moshiach. Jesus was not the Moshiach. Prophecies for the Moshiach spell out very clearly what he'll do. Jesus didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy.
Except for all of them, of course.
Name one. Did he build the 3rd temple, recall the world's Jews to Israel to abide by Torah, establish world peace?
Good point, actually. There are prophecies not yet fulfilled. There are hundreds, however, that He did fulfill the first time He came.

Born in Bethlehem
Hung on a tree
No bones broken
Clothes were gambled for
Revealed as Messiah at the time prophesied by Daniel.
Did not see corruption
Hands and feet pierced
Bones out of joint
Extreme thirst at death
Accused by false witnesses
Hated without cause
A stranger to His own family
Would teach in parables
Seed of David
Ministry to begin in Galilee
All nations would seek Him
Would perform miracles
Would be meek and lowly (the first time. The second time He comes it will be to rule with a rod of iron)
Would send the Holy Spirit
His beard would be pulled out
Would be spit on
Would be despised and rejected
Would be silent before His accusers
Would be put in a grave with the wicked, but also the rich
Would be both God and man
Would die before the destruction of the temple
Would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver

And there are many more.
 

hadit

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Hadit: all 300 or something claimed fulfillments are proven errors and lies using a lot of out of context and tense fallacious attempts.
The only 100% fulfillment is his being the fallen son of perdition in Ezekiel 28, the verses on lucifer can only be Jesus & nobody else since no other prophet was ever the first fallen messiah claiming to be a god nor called perfect and called anointed (Christ) cherub (guardian in Hebrew=Nazarene)-Ezekiel 28:14-15
That is false.
 

Delta4Embassy

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No where. OT doesn't mention Jesus. Any verison that does is a screwed up translation version written by stupid people, for even stupider people.
Actually, it is all about Him, just doesn't use His name.
It's all about the Moshiach. Jesus was not the Moshiach. Prophecies for the Moshiach spell out very clearly what he'll do. Jesus didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy.
Except for all of them, of course.
Name one. Did he build the 3rd temple, recall the world's Jews to Israel to abide by Torah, establish world peace?
Good point, actually. There are prophecies not yet fulfilled. There are hundreds, however, that He did fulfill the first time He came.

Born in Bethlehem
Hung on a tree
No bones broken
Clothes were gambled for
Revealed as Messiah at the time prophesied by Daniel.
Did not see corruption
Hands and feet pierced
Bones out of joint
Extreme thirst at death
Accused by false witnesses
Hated without cause
A stranger to His own family
Would teach in parables
Seed of David
Ministry to begin in Galilee
All nations would seek Him
Would perform miracles
Would be meek and lowly (the first time. The second time He comes it will be to rule with a rod of iron)
Would send the Holy Spirit
His beard would be pulled out
Would be spit on
Would be despised and rejected
Would be silent before His accusers
Would be put in a grave with the wicked, but also the rich
Would be both God and man
Would die before the destruction of the temple
Would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver

And there are many more.
Got chapter and verse to back those up or did ya just cut n paste from something as "what to do when people point out Jesus didn't fulfill any messianic prophecies?"
 

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