Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power

[Crick]

If I put coal generators in houses I would

Every day in every post you continually demonstrate that you are nothing but a TROLL

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/08/f25/LCOE.pdf

 

[jc456]

Every day in every post you continually demonstrate that you are nothing but a TROLL

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/08/f25/LCOE.pdf

And everyday I prove solar isn’t cheaper

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Your goal post was established 255 posts back at #104 where you asked "how much to make them, install them, run the lines and maintain them, battery back up as well, how much?" If you want to include such costs for solar panels you have to include them for fossil fuels as well. And then you'll have to tell us how much it costs to maintain a fossil-fuel powered plant versus the cost to maintain solar panels. First, let's have a look at that diagram on post #40 and see what it actually includes.

Why, my goodness. These aren't simple costs. These are LCOE. Are you familiar with LCOE? I suggest you look it up and then review the wee little notes at the bottom of this graph jc.

Are you familiar with LCOE?

It's a joke.

To reiterate points previously made, the LCOE metric assumes that wind and solar generators are essentially the same kind of thing as dispatchable fossil fuel-powered generation plants. Just build about the same amount of nameplate capacity, and everything will work out just fine. But in fact a predominantly wind/solar system requires vastly more infrastructure to make a fully-functioning reliable grid: some combination of a 4x or 5x overbuild of generators, vastly more transmission lines, and 20 or 30 days of battery storage. These elements could easily multiply the cost of electricity to the consumer by a factor of 5 or 10 or more. Nobody knows, because there is no functioning demonstration project from which reasonably precise costs can be extrapolated. And frankly, there never will be such a demonstration project, because the costs are so enormous that it can never be done. Meanwhile, everyone just nods along as if LCOE comparisons are meaningful.
The Completely Fraudulent "Levelized Cost Of Electricity" — Manhattan Contrarian

 

[Crick]

Are you familiar with LCOE?

It's a joke.

To reiterate points previously made, the LCOE metric assumes that wind and solar generators are essentially the same kind of thing as dispatchable fossil fuel-powered generation plants. Just build about the same amount of nameplate capacity, and everything will work out just fine. But in fact a predominantly wind/solar system requires vastly more infrastructure to make a fully-functioning reliable grid: some combination of a 4x or 5x overbuild of generators, vastly more transmission lines, and 20 or 30 days of battery storage. These elements could easily multiply the cost of electricity to the consumer by a factor of 5 or 10 or more. Nobody knows, because there is no functioning demonstration project from which reasonably precise costs can be extrapolated. And frankly, there never will be such a demonstration project, because the costs are so enormous that it can never be done. Meanwhile, everyone just nods along as if LCOE comparisons are meaningful.
The Completely Fraudulent "Levelized Cost Of Electricity" — Manhattan Contrarian

I think the more likely conclusion is that your assertions that 4x or 5x overbuild and 20 to 30 days of battery storage are anally derived nonsense.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I think the more likely conclusion is that your assertions that 4x or 5x overbuild and 20 to 30 days of battery storage are anally derived nonsense.

Not my assertions.

How much overbuilding is required? How many days of battery storage?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Not my assertions.

CO2 Coalition - SourceWatch

www.sourcewatch.org

Member: Francis Menton / "Manhattan Contrarian" / Denier Fur Hire

 

[Crick]

Not my assertions.

How much overbuilding is required? How many days of battery storage?

Tell you what Todd, I think the LCOE data is about the best we're going to find. If you think they're wrong, why don't you find some reliable experts who support you? I'm sure the coal and oil industry would love to argue otherwise.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I think the more likely conclusion is that your assertions that 4x or 5x overbuild and 20 to 30 days of battery storage are anally derived nonsense.

Pretty certain the Toddster and "Manhattan Contrarian" asserted none of this either. They just like pretending they thought it all up first and aren't simply denying it for oil soaked troll $ purposes.

 

[Crick]

Pretty certain the Toddster and "Manhattan Contrarian" asserted none of this either. They just like pretending they thought it all up first and aren't simply denying it for oil soaked troll $ purposes.

Who is "Manhattan Contrarian"?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Who is "Manhattan Contrarian"?

Koch Bros, Oil Soaked, elite Fraudster

— Manhattan Contrarian

Francis Menton.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tell you what Todd, I think the LCOE data is about the best we're going to find. If you think they're wrong, why don't you find some reliable experts who support you? I'm sure the coal and oil industry would love to argue otherwise.

I think German prices for electricity is much better data.
California is probably a close second.
You have any examples of cheaper green energy adoption that led to lower prices?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

CO2 Coalition - SourceWatch

www.sourcewatch.org

Member: Francis Menton / "Manhattan Contrarian" / Denier Fur Hire

Not my assertions, still better than that LCOE bs.

 

[Crick]

Not my assertions, still better than that LCOE bs.

Whose assertions are better than LCOEs?

 

[Crick]

I think German prices for electricity is much better data.
California is probably a close second.
You have any examples of cheaper green energy adoption that led to lower prices?

That's a bit vague Todd. German? California?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Whose assertions are better than LCOEs?

The assertion that LCOEs are a lie because we need 24/7 power not
some kinda power here, kinda power there.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's a bit vague Todd. German? California?

Yes. Prices.

 

[Crick]

Yes. Prices.

I thought you were looking for something more accurate than LCOE.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I thought you were looking for something more accurate than LCOE.

Real world prices are a better indicator than BS LCOE.

 

[Crick]

Real world prices are a better indicator than BS LCOE.

You're accounting for subsidies? Capital investments? Cost of dealing with pollution and GHG emissions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You're accounting for subsidies? Capital investments? Cost of dealing with pollution and GHG emissions.

Subsidies are making green energy more expensive?

That's bad planning.