Pregnant librarian shot dead. Self Defense?

[gtopa1]

Yes, she coulda........

Yes; she did.

Greg

 

[Bob Blaylock]

A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.

According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.

Though Derr was not injured or ejected in the “minor accident,” he said he followed Morales to get her information for law enforcement after she drove away from the scene, according to investigators.

Derr, along with two witnesses, verbally attempted to have Morales stop at the intersection while she was making a left turn, but she refused, says a social media release.

Morales drove to her home and went inside. Derr and the witnesses followed her. They stopped in the roadway in front of her home and called 911, say investigators. Morales re-emerged a short time later with a firearm and pointed it at them, continues the post.

Derr, who has a valid Florida concealed weapons permit, drew his concealed handgun and fired, striking Morales “multiple times.”

The motorcyclist remained on scene, where Orange City Fire Rescue responded to provide medical care. Morales was transported to a local hospital where she died from her injuries.

The woman, a Volusia County librarian, was reportedly four to five months pregnant and leaves behind an 11-year-old daughter and a fiancé.

As of Wednesday, no one had been charged in this case, though police say an investigation is ongoing.

In newly released bodycam video, Derr can be seen on the ground.

“That girl tried to kill me,” he says. “She pointed a gun at me. I’m so sorry.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article256086977.html#storylink=cpy

Pregnant woman hits motorcycle guy in a minor accident with her Kia. The bike didn't even fall over.

Woman flees scene of the accident. Guy on bike follows her.

Woman goes into house, comes out with a gun.

Man shoots her dead.

Self defense?

Article is hidden behind a paywall, and therefore can be safely assumed to be mostly bullshit.

Anyone have anything on this story from a credible site?

Anyway, what jumps out at me in the part quoted here is that after the collision, the biker and some “witnesses” followed Mrs. Morales to her home.

The scenario that my mind is painting is that this woman found herself in the midst of a gang of apparently-hostile bikers, and fled the scene because at that point, she was already in fear of her safety. Her fears would certainly not have been lessened when this gang of bikers pursued her to her home.

I'd have to know more about the story to make a solid judgement, but my instinct from what is available here to me is that any claim of self-defense on Mr. Derr's part is at least partly negated by the fact that he followed Mrs. Morales to her home, and gave her good reason to believe he and his fellow gangsters were a threat to her safety and that of her family. If she had fired first, and killed Mr. Derr, I'd be a lot more sympathetic to any claim that she acted in self-defense, than to the claim that he acted in self-defense when he shot her.

It does sound like there was some very bad judgement exercised on both sides.

 

[Turtlesoup]

A case of road rage in Central Florida left one of the motorists, a mother-to-be, dead last Saturday evening.

According to the Orange City Police Department, the incident began around 5 p.m. Nov. 20 when Sara Nicole Morales, 35, hit Andrew Derr’s motorcycle with her blue Kia. It is unclear why she hit his bike.

Though Derr was not injured or ejected in the “minor accident,” he said he followed Morales to get her information for law enforcement after she drove away from the scene, according to investigators.

Derr, along with two witnesses, verbally attempted to have Morales stop at the intersection while she was making a left turn, but she refused, says a social media release.

Morales drove to her home and went inside. Derr and the witnesses followed her. They stopped in the roadway in front of her home and called 911, say investigators. Morales re-emerged a short time later with a firearm and pointed it at them, continues the post.

Derr, who has a valid Florida concealed weapons permit, drew his concealed handgun and fired, striking Morales “multiple times.”

The motorcyclist remained on scene, where Orange City Fire Rescue responded to provide medical care. Morales was transported to a local hospital where she died from her injuries.

The woman, a Volusia County librarian, was reportedly four to five months pregnant and leaves behind an 11-year-old daughter and a fiancé.

As of Wednesday, no one had been charged in this case, though police say an investigation is ongoing.

In newly released bodycam video, Derr can be seen on the ground.

“That girl tried to kill me,” he says. “She pointed a gun at me. I’m so sorry.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article256086977.html#storylink=cpy

Pregnant woman hits motorcycle guy in a minor accident with her Kia. The bike didn't even fall over.

Woman flees scene of the accident. Guy on bike follows her.

Woman goes into house, comes out with a gun.

Man shoots her dead.

Self defense?

Oh stop she was a librarian assistant---unmarried.

My guess---she was drunk and was an aggressive drunk...and yet you want to try political games.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.

Follow a pregnant woman (whose instincts to protect her family will be in high-gear due to the hormones involved) to her home, and give her reason to think you mean her harm; if she has a family there, and if she has a weapon there, my bet would be on her using that weapon.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Looks like self defense. She made the threat first. Always know where the nearest police station is. If you are threatened or followed go there. Never go home.

She didn't chase them to their homes.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Article is hidden behind a paywall, and therefore can be safely assumed to be mostly bullshit.

Anyone have anything on this story from a credible site?

Anyway, what jumps out at me in the part quoted here is that after the collision, the biker and some “witnesses” followed Mrs. Morales to her home.

The scenario that my mind is painting is that this woman found herself in the midst of a gang of apparently-hostile bikers, and fled the scene because at that point, she was already in fear of her safety. Her fears would certainly not have been lessened when this gang of bikers pursued her to her home.

I'd have to know more about the story to make a solid judgement, but my instinct from what is available here to me is that any claim of self-defense on Mr. Derr's part is at least partly negated by the fact that he followed Mrs. Morales to her home, and gave her good reason to believe he and his fellow gangsters were a threat to her safety and that of her family. If she had fired first, and killed Mr. Derr, I'd be a lot more sympathetic to any claim that she acted in self-defense, than to the claim that he acted in self-defense when he shot her.

It does sound like there was some very bad judgement exercised on both sides.

I think that she was drunk BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT...several years ago before my husband I moved to florida we were driving on the hwy from Orlando to west side of Florida----a bunch of asshole motorcyclists came speeding up behind us and other vehicles and were doing their stunts (this was around the same time up north had such an incident that led to the driver shooting or running over the motorcyclists)-- one of the assholes got in front of our vehicle and slam on his breaks as others did much the same to other drivers. We barely missed hitting the idiot. He's lucky my husband was driving, I would have likely run him over accidently. It is possible that this guy and his buddies were playing this same game and got hit.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Extraordinary. For once, I find myself completely agreeing with Coyote. That never happens.

Am I really the only man participating in this thread who understands how scary the situation described here would be to a woman, and how a woman would be likely to react to it?

If it was my wife, in the identical situation, that biker and his “witnesses” would almost certainly have all wound up dead.

Given how he subsequently behaved, I suspect he and his buddies were probably pretty aggressive after she hit him. As a woman, I can see how frightening it be to be followed home like, in fact I’d be freaked out. I had something kind of similar happen. I was driving in Pittsburgh, was lost, accidentally cut a guy off (no one got hit, no accident). He followed me, tried to cut me off several times, I kept driving until I found a place that other people around and pulled into the parking lot. He came up next to me yelling and swearing at me. I apologized and explained I was lost but he just kept on. I left and he followed me. It was absolutely freaky.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Extraordinary. For once, I find myself completely agreeing with Coyote. That never happens.

Am I really the only man participating in this thread who understands how scary the situation described here would be to a woman, and how a woman would be likely to react to it?

If it was my wife, in the identical situation, that biker and his “witnesses” would almost certainly have all wound up dead.

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Your point is MADE...

 

[ESay]

Oh stop she was a librarian assistant---unmarried.

My guess---she was drunk and was an aggressive drunk...and yet you want to try political games.

Your guess is strange, to put it mildly.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Yes, but she ran away from the scene of a crime. She is not guitless [sic].

Under some circumstances, fleeing the scene of a collision is justified. For example, a vulnerable pregnant woman surrounded by a hostile gang of motorcyclists. I'm pretty sure that under those circumstances, she had reasonable cause to fear for her own safety if she remained on the scene; even more so when this gang chased her all the way to her home.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The person did not hunt her down and shot her, so you either missed the part she came out with a gun, pointed it at him and he shot her because of it…

What, then, were they doing at her home, some distance from the scene of the original incident?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Her legal representative on the prosecution will surely claim that they were hunting her down. It should have never escalated past calling the police.

I'm only telling you people how the law would handle this case in Canada and I realize America needs traffic accidents to end in death by gun. We have nothing to debate.

This is likely the first of many when or if it goes unpunished.

No American cares what a quiche-eating faggot from Canaduh thinks of how things should be in our country. Yours is the nation, and the society, that was founded in cowering and groveling before the same tyrant against whom we rebelled to found our country.

 

[Turtlesoup]

She didn't chase them to their homes.

No but if she caused the accident, she wouldn't be chasing them but trying to flee and hide from them. Need more facts.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I've only told you people how it would have happened different in Canada.

No one cares how it would have happened in Canaduh.

Canaduh is a nation of pussies, founded in kissing George III's ass.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Your guess is strange, to put it mildly.

It's the most common scenerio-------drunks side swipe and flee all the time----when cornered many become very aggressive. Florida has a large under the influence of drugs or alcohol accidents all the fucking time---and UNINSURED DRIVERS. Florida Car insurance is high as hell because of these two issues.

Cops will know here shortly if she drunk/high or was uninsured.

 

[WinterBorn]

I would've got her plate and car and her with my phone camera.

I wouldn't have shot her. I would've put my hands up. Odds are a librarian isn't going to pull the trigger.

How would you have known she was a librarian?

And she had already hit you and run.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

What, then, were they doing at her home, some distance from the scene of the original incident?

Did you read the article and did you read the police findings?

She hit a person on a motorcycle, she ran, they followed trying to get her to pull over and she refused and she drove home and went inside and came out with a gun and got shot.

She did not call the police nor did she offer to give any information but instead broke the law many times and got herself killed.

I know the motorcyclist should have apologized and let her go according to those like you because hey who cares about the law?

Did you know it was him that called the Police?

So in the end if she felt her life was being threatened she could have:

1. Locked herself in her vehicle and called the Police.

2. Drove to the nearest Police Station and asked for assistance.

3. When at home called the Police and requested help.

She did none of that but instead walked outside with a loaded gun and hit herself killed…

 

[Devils_Advocate]

You all are some stone-cold killers.

Why not just let her go?

Right, she hit someone, run and then pull a gun and you are more upset about the guy wanting her information and shooting her when she escalate it to the point where she get shot and killed…

 

[surada]

It is the choice of those being threatened…

You are trying to make it where the guy that shot the woman should have allowed her to point the firearm at him which she can not and cost her life.

What the guy did wrong:

1. Followed her.

2. Went to her home without Police.

What the woman did wrong:

1. Did a hit and run without exchanging information.

2. Came out of her home with the gun.

Note:

Had the guy illegally entered her home or came onto her property then he could be facing trespassing issues but what it sounds like he did neither or I missed that part.

Her coming out of the home with a firearm was stupid in her part and she should have called the police and reported a man stalking her and possible rape and then the man would have been taken into custody.

The woman most likely didn’t have insurance or could have been illegal to drive or something else and thought bringing a gun out was going to scare the man but it didn’t.

We need a lot more information about her and him but she is dead because of her stupidity.

Report "possible rape"? Are you kidding? How would they know where she lived without following her? It was hit and run.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Report "possible rape"? Are you kidding? How would they know where she lived without following her? It was hit and run.

No, she could have called the Police and said that to get a quicker response from the Police, but she did not even attempt to contact the Police.

My point was she never even tried to involve the Police and took the law into her own hands and got killed.