Zone1 POLL: "Where do (your) Basic Human Rights come from? Zone1

[Leo123]

So, we start with an allegation that a "God" (that may or not exist in reality) did some things (but probably didn't) and then we assail that "God" with appeals to ridicule for the inconsistencies that we (mere humans) might perceive.

This is like watching a bunch of monkeys trying to unfuck a football.

Belief in 'God' is a unifying factor of rational, agreed upon, human morality.

 

[Leo123]

You mean well-behaved? I would not trust a chimp anywhere near me unless it was very young. Besides being dirty and disgusting, the adults can turn on you and kill you in a second.

Yes, yet some here think chimps have the same morals as humans.

 

[ChristisKing]

Yes yet some here think chimps have the same morals as humans.

I still haven't found a single person who can tell me where morals come from if not from the Bible. Other than they come out of nowhere.

 

[alang1216]

Chimps have a moral code?

Sure they do. Read some Jane Goodall.

 

[Crepitus]

Where did humans get them?

They made them up.

How did you not get that?

 

[Crepitus]

I still haven't found a single person who can tell me where morals come from if not from the Bible. Other than they come out of nowhere.

People made them up.

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[ChristisKing]

Sure they do. Read some Jane Goodall.

Jane Goodall wasn't nearly murdered by a chimp.

 

[alang1216]

100%

Also 100%

What conclusion are you expecting me to draw from that?

The 'right to life' is meaningless to nature.

 

[ChristisKing]

They made them up.

How did you not get that?

People made them up.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Okay, but why? What made them come to this conclusion?

 

[dblack]

I still haven't found a single person who can tell me where morals come from if not from the Bible. Other than they come out of nowhere.

Several people have answered you, in the other thread. Morals were developed by human societies, because they make civilization possible. How is that coming from "out of nowhere"?

 

[alang1216]

‘Famous’ chimpanzee kills baby after ripping it from mother’s arms​

'Famous' chimpanzee kills baby after ripping it from mother's arms ​

​

Murder 'comes naturally' to chimpanzees​

Murder 'comes naturally' to chimpanzees

A major international study finds that killings among chimpanzees result from normal competition, not human interference.

www.bbc.com

YOU can live by chimpanzee morality, not for me though.

​

Right, because people don't kill other people. Except by the millions.

 

[ChristisKing]

The 'right to life' is meaningless to nature.

So that means that you don't value your own life then?

Several people have answered you, in the other thread. Morals were developed by human societies, because they make civilization possible. How is that "coming from out of nowhere"?

Sounds like making it up out of thin air to me.

 

[alang1216]

Yet, you voted "other" in the poll.

Government doesn't 'grant' rights, it only recognizes or denies them.

 

[ChristisKing]

Right, because people don't kill other people. Except by the millions.

We never said that they didn't but that's not morality.

 

[Chuz Life]

Belief in 'God' is a unifying factor of rational, agreed upon, human morality.

That may or may not be true.

However, this thread is not about morality, and I hope the mods will keep that in mind.

This thread is about "rights."

Specifically, about where rights "come from."

I can see why and how some may think the two subjects are intertwined, but look how the thread (about where rights come from) is already being derailed by the other.

In my view/ observations, basic human rights (right to life and self-defense) is something that predates our ideas of "morality" and not the other way around.

What we are calling "morality" is simply an expression of and a logical extension of the basic human rights that we (humans) inherently possess.

 

[dblack]

Sounds like making it up out of thin air to me.

Heh... ok. Hopefully you can appreciate that, to me, as a non-believer, the morals from the Christian Bible are no less "out of thin air". Someone just made them up.

But they work. That's why we kept them. Other societies have done the same thing, with our without the help of religion.

 

[ChristisKing]

Heh... ok. Hopefully you can appreciate that, to me, as a non-believer, the morals from the Christian Bible is no less "out of thin air". Someone just made them up.

But they work. That's why we kept them. Other societies have done the same thing, with our without the help of religion.

So if the government suddenly legalized theft and murder would it be acceptable in your eyes?

 

[Chuz Life]

The 'right to life' is meaningless to nature.

I disagree.

Any scientist can objectively observe that the vast majority of creatures on Earth will not only act in self-defense to guard their own lives, but also the lives of their progeny and even the lives of their social groups.

In some cases, it has been observed that animals with the ability can even hold grudges and seek revenge.

So, your claim that it is "meaningless" is subjective at best.

 

[Leo123]

That may or may not be true.

However, this thread is not about morality, and I hope the mods will keep that in mind.

This thread is about "rights."

Specifically, about where rights "come from."

I can see why and how some may think the two subjects are intertwined, but look how the thread (about where rights come from) is already being derailed by the other.

In my view/ observations, basic human rights (right to life and self-defense) is something that predates our ideas of "morality" and not the other way around.

What we are calling "morality" is simply an expression of and a logical extension of the basic human rights that we (humans) inherently possess.

What are rights without morality?

 

[dblack]

So if the government suddenly legalized theft and murder would it be acceptable in your eyes?

Oh come on. No. NOTHING I've said suggests that.

And please don't troll me with crap like that.