Politics, "Wokeness" and Absurdity

[Red Front]

But you keep voting Democrat just the same.

I voted for Trump in 2016, hoping he was actually a populist, who was going to "drain the swamp". He then became president and filled his administration with swamp people. A bunch of bank execs and neocons. The Carrier plant in Indiana, which he visited during his 2016 campaign and promised wouldn't close and move to Mexico, closed and moved to taco-land, in less than a year of him becoming president. He did nothing.

The plant closed down and moved to Mexico.​

Where is Trump, the champion of the working class? It was all an act. He didn't impose tariffs on Carrier imports from Mexico, he didn't strip them of their tax breaks for creating jobs in the USA (when they were behaving as a good, patriotic American company). He should've punished them for practicing economic cannibalism. That's what it is. Closing your factory, moving it abroad where labor is dirt cheap, laying off thousands of American workers, then turning around and selling your foreign manufactured products to the same American workers you fired. Huge short-term profits, at the expense of the long-term stability and health of the American economy. It's economic cannibalism and unpatriotic.

 

[Foxfyre]

I voted for Trump in 2016, hoping he was actually a populist, who was going to "drain the swamp". He then became president and filled his administration with swamp people. A bunch of bank execs and neocons. The Carrier plant in Indiana, which he visited during his 2016 campaign and promised wouldn't close and move to Mexico, closed and moved to taco-land, in less than a year of him becoming president. He did nothing.

The plant closed down and moved to Mexico.​

Where is Trump, the champion of the working class? It was all an act. He didn't impose tariffs on Carrier imports from Mexico, he didn't strip them of their tax breaks for creating jobs in the USA (when they were behaving as a good, patriotic American company). He should've punished them for practicing economic cannibalism. That's what it is. Closing your factory, moving it abroad where labor is dirt cheap, laying off thousands of American workers, then turning around and selling your foreign manufactured products to the same American workers you fired. Huge short-term profits, at the expense of the long-term stability and health of the American economy. It's economic cannibalism and unpatriotic.

Let's keep it honest. Carrier announced in early 2016 it was moving it's Indianapolis facility to Mexico and had already made those investments when Trump took office.

Very early in his administration Trump announced a deal with Carrier to keep some of those jobs in Indiana in return for some tax credits. He was heavily criticized for that by the left for violating 'free trade'.

So it wasn't a case of 'he did nothing.' Trump was not a dictator. He was a negotiator.

But his lack of political experience did hurt him as he had to rely on others for who to put into key positions in his cabinet and on his staff and, while some appointments were brilliant, he also got some really bad advice. Also he operated as a business man giving people a chance who turned out to be wrong for their jobs so he went through a lot of people trying to find a good fit. That works in the business world. Not so much in politics.

But the fact is NOBODY is going to be 100% successful in every single thing and NOBODY is going to make us happy 100% of the time. If nobody had ever forgiven me my mistakes and encouraged and allowed me to learn and get better at my various jobs over my long working life, I couldn't have excelled at anything. Most hard things worth doing require some trial and error.

I apologize if I misjudged your political ideology. But I think most intelligent people are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. And the fact that Patriots push back on ridiculous and harmful (and Marxist) cultural reordering takes nothing away from attention to the equally bad mishandling of the economy, an open border, disastrous international policy etc.

 

[Foxfyre]

Altruistic is wishes and dreams, miles from REALITY!

The way the left describes it sometimes, I agree. But in fact 'altruistic' is having the heart to help those who can't help themselves and/or to help somebody who in all likelihood will never be able to return the favor.

The problem is that it becomes a kind of sick righteousness by the left who presume it to be noble to dictate exactly how we must think, speak, feel, behave when that defies all common sense, tradition, our values, our beliefs. And those who object to that in any way are accused of racism, sexism, phobias, selfishness, not being altruistic and worse.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

But you keep voting Democrat just the same.

If that’s the case, I suspect that that person is woke but don’t know it because they have been fed some strange ideas about what it is. You on the other hand know exactly what it is and for that reason you fear and loath it. And you fear it because it shines a bright light and exposes your draconian anti humanistic, anti truth agenda

 

[Foxfyre]

If that’s the case, I suspect that that person is woke but don’t know it because they have been fed some strange ideas about what it is. You on the other hand know exactly what it is and for that reason you fear and loath it. And you fear it because it shines a bright light and exposes your draconian anti humanistic, anti truth agenda

I'm sorry, but that is too non sequitur, twisted, convoluted, weird to merit a response. Do have a pleasant afternoon.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I'm originally from Florida and lived there for most of my life, so I know how bad it is. These conservatives are wrong most of the time, but when it comes to their concerns about gender dysphoria becoming rampant due to it being turned into a social statement against "cis-gendered" normies and a way for teens to be "progressive" and cool, they're correct. All of this gender-sexual lunacy is wrong and unnecessary. Lesbians are now being labeled transphobic and fascist because they don't want to date pre-op transwomen. These "genetic women" (let's just call them women) who are lesbians, aren't into penises, irrespective of them being on someone who identifies as a woman. They're not into the penis, yet are being abused by the "woke" mob for supposedly being "fascist-transphobes".

Today just being a lesbian, a gay man, or bi isn't enough for the "woke". That's not "woke" enough.

Holy shit! Really.?? That’s what this is about? Anti trans hysteria. That’s too bad. You seem like a decent person who is generally concerned about people but it seems that you have been fed a load of bovine excrement about transpeople . Let me remind you that trans people are PEOPLE too. That are not out to eradicate cisgender or “normal people” They are few in numbers and are not bothering anyone except those who obsess about them and choose to be bothered. The chances are that on any given day you will not encounter a trans person and if you do you likely to not even know it. Gender dysphoria is very real and they deserve some compassion and consideration. Yes there is a degree of social contagion in the air. Kids play copy cat but they will get over it if not really trans.

I also have to wonder why you are railing about how Lesbians are treated if they will not date a pre op transwoman. It sounds personal. Are you a Lesbian? ( Full disclosure. I am a straight, cisgender male) If so and if you have encountered such abuse, I am on your side. It is none of anybody’s damned business who anyone else dates. The people who are making it their business are wrong and are not woke, and their behavior should not be pointed to as a reason to condemn woke. I would say you have some thinking to do. Woke is not the Boggie man

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I'm sorry, but that is too non sequitur, twisted, convoluted, weird to merit a response. Do have a pleasant afternoon.

You can run but you can't hide, I know what you are

 

[Foxfyre]

You can run but you can't hide, I know what you are

How very Marxist of you.

 

[Red Front]

Holy shit! Really.?? That’s what this is about? Anti trans hysteria. That’s too bad. You seem like a decent person who is generally concerned about people but it seems that you have been fed a load of bovine excrement about transpeople . Let me remind you that trans people are PEOPLE too. That are not out to eradicate cisgender or “normal people” They are few in numbers and are not bothering anyone except those who obsess about them and choose to be bothered. The chances are that on any given day you will not encounter a trans person and if you do you likely to not even know it. Gender dysphoria is very real and they deserve some compassion and consideration. Yes there is a degree of social contagion in the air. Kids play copy cat but they will get over it if not really trans.

I also have to wonder why you are railing about how Lesbians are treated if they will not date a pre op transwoman. It sounds personal. Are you a Lesbian? ( Full disclosure. I am a straight, cisgender male) If so and if you have encountered such abuse, I am on your side. It is none of anybody’s damned business who anyone else dates. The people who are making it their business are wrong and are not woke, and their behavior should not be pointed to as a reason to condemn woke. I would say you have some thinking to do. Woke is not the Boggie man

Wow, you got triggered, huh? I never said anything against transsexuals or trans people. I recognize that gender dysphoria is a real illness and people who suffer from it should be treated with compassion and respect. Their human rights should be respected and they should never be harassed, bullied, or discriminated against. I have nothing against them. The problem is when supposed "woke" people adopt transgenderism and an LGBTQA+ identity for all of the wrong reasons. There are way too many young people today that are like that unfortunately and it's making it more difficult for those who are truly transgender or LGBTQA+. You can deny that there's a problem, but that doesn't help the situation.

Flippantly dismissing people's concerns and labeling them fascists or "phobic" doesn't help.


​

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Wow, you got triggered, huh? I never said anything against transsexuals or trans people. I recognize that gender dysphoria is a real illness and people who suffer from it should be treated with compassion and respect. Their human rights should be respected and they should never be harassed, bullied, or discriminated against. I have nothing against them. The problem is when supposed "woke" people adopt transgenderism and an LGBTQA+ identity for all of the wrong reasons. There are way too many young people today that are like that unfortunately and it's making it more difficult for those who are truly transgender or LGBTQA+. You can deny that there's a problem, but that doesn't help the situation.

Flippantly dismissing people's concerns and labeling them fascists or "phobic" doesn't help.


​

Triggered ? Not at all. Why would you think so? I was just expressing my view about your complaint that Lesbians are called anti trans for not dating a pre op transwoman. I agreed with you that that is wrong but I don’t have a dog in that fight. I thought that we were having a pretty good discussion.
You say that you are not anti trans and I believe you but it did sound like you have an ax to grind. What it comes down to is that if you have to attack or denigrate one group in order to support another you are doing something wrong and it is not woke. It is being an asshole. What you described is sort of like calling a straight person an antigay bigot for not wanting to date someone of their own gender.
We can all support the rights of others without feeling like we have to give up something in the meantime. It is not a zero sum game.

I am not sure what you mean by this:

The problem is when supposed "woke" people adopt transgenderism and an LGBTQA+ identity for all of the wrong reasons. There are way too many young people today that are like that unfortunately and it's making it more difficult for those who are truly transgender or LGBTQA+. You can deny that there's a problem, but that doesn't help the situation.

Can you give some examples? People pretending to be LGBT? I am not sure what that is but it is not woke. I don’t think that the people in those video clips represent what is really going on.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

How very Marxist of you.

Actually I am a recovered Marxist. Now a Social Democrat. Now what the fuck does that have to do with Woke?

 

[Foxfyre]

Actually I am a recovered Marxist. Now a Social Democrat. Now what the fuck does that have to do with Woke?

Social Democrats almost wholly embrace Marxism in various degrees, usually with little understanding that they do that.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

In todays news:

Ron DeSantis Wants To Take His 'War On Woke' National. There’s One Big Problem: The Constitution.

Courts have repeatedly rejected the Florida governor's narrow-minded agenda as a “positively dystopian” assault on free speech and due process.

www.huffpost.com

“The woke mind virus is basically a form of cultural Marxism,” DeSantis said in an appearance on Fox News the same day he announced his campaign. “At the end of the day, it’s an attack on the truth. And because it’s a war on truth, I think we have no choice but to wage a war on woke.”

An attack on the truth? really? Just the opposite! It is the Anti Wokers who want to avoid all discussion of things like thw 1619 project, jim crow and the current systemic racism. They fear the truth and are gaslighting suckers into believing that they are the truth. But it will not stand

Broad swathes of DeSantis’ anti-woke agenda — from restrictions on the teaching of social science about race in colleges and universities, to bans on corporate diversity training to limits on public protests — have been temporarily suspended by judges who found them very likely to be in violation of the first and 14th amendments.

In suspending these laws, federal judges called them “positively dystopian” and the defenses presented in court “wholly at odds with accepted constitutional principles.” The suspended provisions of the laws may yet be upheld as they move through appeals courts and, possibly, U.S. Supreme Court review, but, at the moment, DeSantis’ offensive against the “woke mind virus” has been partially reversed.

These multiple losses in court put a constitutional blemish on DeSantis’ claims of success as a culture warrior who can deftly enact the social conservative agenda.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Social Democrats almost wholly embrace Marxism in various degrees, usually with little understanding that they do that.

Clearly you do not understand the difference between social democrats and marxists or how any of it relates to wokeness.

 

[Foxfyre]

Clearly you do not understand the difference between social democrats and marxists or how any of it relates to wokeness.

Clearly I understand it a hell of a lot better than you do.

 

[Flash]

But anybody who refuses to buy Bud Light these days is a transphobic, racist, hateful bigot who should not be allowed to be part of the human race.

I proudly wear that label per the definition of these stupid hateful Moon Bats.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Wow, you got triggered, huh? I never said anything against transsexuals or trans people. I recognize that gender dysphoria is a real illness and people who suffer from it should be treated with compassion and respect. Their human rights should be respected and they should never be harassed, bullied, or discriminated against. I have nothing against them. The problem is when supposed "woke" people adopt transgenderism and an LGBTQA+ identity for all of the wrong reasons. There are way too many young people today that are like that unfortunately and it's making it more difficult for those who are truly transgender or LGBTQA+. You can deny that there's a problem, but that doesn't help the situation.

Flippantly dismissing people's concerns and labeling them fascists or "phobic" doesn't help.


​

More thoughts on wokeness. There are two kinds of people who rail against it

1. Those who actually understand what it is and fear and loath it. And they fear it because it shines a bright light and exposes their draconian, anti humanistic, anti truth agenda

1. Those who actually care about the human condition but who have been fed a load of shit about what woke means and what it is. They have bought into the lies about how it is an assault on truth, that it will pit the races against each other buy teaching true history, and how it will undermine the “traditional family “ and detract from the legitimacy of straight and cisgender people by supporting LGBT rights

Note that people in category 1 are the ones who have fed the bullshit to the people in category 2. I do not see you as the enemy. Just a bit misguided. We may have more in common than not . I think that you are cat. 2

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Clearly I understand it a hell of a lot better than you do.

Go ahead and 'splain it to us. Compare and contrast Bernie Sanders to Carl Marx. Tale your time. I'll waite

 

[dblack]

I you don't have time to listen to the slow version:

 

[Red Front]

More thoughts on wokeness. There are two kinds of people who rail against it

1. Those who actually understand what it is and fear and loath it. And they fear it because it shines a bright light and exposes their draconian, anti humanistic, anti truth agenda
2. Those who actually care about the human condition but who have been fed a load of shit about what woke means and what it is. They have bought into the lies about how it is an assault on truth, that it will pit the races against each other buy teaching true history, and how it will undermine the “traditional family “ and detract from the legitimacy of straight and cisgender people by supporting LGBT rights

Note that people in category 1 are the ones who have fed the bullshit to the people in category 2. I do not see you as the enemy. Just a bit misguided. We may have more in common than not . I think that you are cat. 2

Wokeness is perfect. The woke don't have any animosity toward straight "cisgenderism", or white males or anyone really. The only reason we have ten times the number of queer teens now and people identifying as trans and "gender fluid", or as toaster ovens baking oatmeal cookies, is because in the past all of these types of people were in the closet. All of the pronouns just flew out of the closet, when we became more inclusive. We should teach our children that they were assigned their sex at birth, and maybe the little boy is actually a little girl. That girl over there isn't really just a tomboy, but a little Lesbian or maybe even a boy and future man. This "wokeness" is so "liberating" and good for society. WOW!