Politics, "Wokeness" and Absurdity

Flash said:
I proudly wear that label per the definition of these stupid hateful Moon Bats.
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Yeah that's the good side of it. The left so glibly (and dishonestly) uses those terms to describe anybody who thinks differently from them, the words themselves have been pretty blunted & ineffective as insults. :)
 
CommunistFront said:
Wokeness is perfect. The woke don't have any animosity toward straight "cisgenderism", or white males or anyone really. The only reason we have ten times the number of queer teens now and people identifying as trans and "gender fluid", or as toaster ovens baking oatmeal cookies, is because in the past all of these types of people were in the closet. All of the pronouns just flew out of the closet, when we became more inclusive. We should teach our children that they were assigned their sex at birth, and maybe the little boy is actually a little girl. That girl over there isn't really just a tomboy, but a little Lesbian or maybe even a boy and future man. This "wokeness" is so "liberating" and good for society. WOW!
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In your clumsy attempt to be facetious , you have articulated my sentiments fairly well. However , for the record I did previously acknowledge a degree of social contagion to account for the proliferation of trans people .Nevertheless , I do not see you as the enemy, so please stop trying to make me the bad guy.
 
TheProgressivePatriot said:
In your clumsy attempt to be facetious , you have articulated my sentiments fairly well. However , for the record I did previously acknowledge a degree of social contagion to account for the proliferation of trans people .Nevertheless , I do not see you as the enemy, so please stop trying to make me the bad guy.
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You're clearly downplaying the seriousness and the extent of the "social contagion" and "proliferation", dismissing it as something trivial. That's the main problem and why conservatives, as wrong as they are most of the time when it comes to economic issues and other topics, they're correct on this one. Embarrassingly, as a leftist, I have to admit, these right-wingers are correct on the extent of the "social contagion" and extreme "proliferation" (I'm using your own words), of trans and queer.

Could it be that due to our society being more inclusive and liberal, more people are out of the closet? Sure, that's logical. We definitely have a larger population of LGBTQA+ in society, due to the fact that we've become more egalitarian, humanistic, and less intolerant than in the past. But when considering the number of children that are suffering from gender dysphoria and identifying as "gender fluid", that is clearly a social phenomenon.

Cis-gendered people, especially white cis-gendered men and women are seen as being at the bottom of the totem poll, as far as social status, within this new post-modern culture. Our youth are declaring themselves "gender fluid" and queer in order to avoid being labeled "cis" and a significant % of them are going completely trans.

More children, every day are being subjected to puberty blockers, a lifetime of dangerous (YES DANGEROUS) expensive hormone treatments and surgeries. Big pharma loves all of this gender dysphoria and "fluidity". They're cashing in. This is an extremely lucrative business. When you see who is funding the "wokeness", it's not leftists or socialists, it's big-money capitalists.
 
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TheProgressivePatriot said:
To feel is to be human. To be human is to feel

Thank you for confirming what we already know about the sociopathic right
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Here's some lyrics from Neil Peart that describe these Human conditions....

"When our weary world was young
The struggle of the ancients first began.
The gods of Love and Reason
Sought alone to rule the fate of Man.
They battled through the ages,
But still neither force would yield.
The people were divided,
Every soul a battlefield.

Apollo Bringer of Wisdom
"I bring truth and understanding,
I bring wit and wisdom fair,
Precious gifts beyond compare.
We can build a world of wonder,
I can make you all aware.
I will find you food and shelter,
Show you fire to keep you warm
Through the endless winter storm.
You can live in grace and comfort
In the world that you transform."
The people were delighted
Coming forth to claim their prize
They ran to build their cities
And converse among the wise.
But one day the streets fell silent,
Yet they knew not what was wrong.
The urge to build these fine things
Seemed not to be so strong.
The wise men were consulted,
And the Bridge of Death was crossed
In quest of Dionysus,
To find out what they had lost.

Dionysus Bringer of Love
"I bring love to give you solace
In the darkness of the night,
In the Heart's eternal light.
You need only trust your feelings;
Only love can steer you right.
I bring laughter, I bring music,
I bring joy and I bring tears.
I will soothe your primal fears.
Throw off those chains of reason
And your prison disappears."
The cities were abandoned,
And the forests echoed song.
They danced and lived as brothers;
They knew love could not be wrong.
Food and wine they had aplenty
And they slept beneath the stars.
The people were contented
And the Gods watched from afar.
But the winter fell upon them
And it caught them unprepared,
Bringing wolves and cold starvation,
And the hearts of men despaired.

The Sphere A Kind of Dream
"We can walk our road together
If our goals are all the same.
We can run alone and free
If we pursue a different aim.
Let the truth of love be lighted,
Let the love of truth shine clear.
Sensibility, armed with sense and liberty,
With the Heart and Mind united in a single perfect Sphere."
____________________________

There has to be a recognized balance between feelings and reason, and this struggle in Humanity has been going on forever! There has to be COMPROMISE, not FORCED ideology from either side.
 
CommunistFront said:
You're clearly downplaying the seriousness and the extent of the "social contagion" and "proliferation", dismissing it as something trivial. That's the main problem and why conservatives, as wrong as they are most of the time when it comes to economic issues and other topics, they're correct on this one. Embarrassingly, as a leftist, I have to admit, these right-wingers are correct on the extent of the "social contagion" and extreme "proliferation" (I'm using your own words), of trans and queer.

Could it be that due to our society being more inclusive and liberal, more people are out of the closet? Sure, that's logical. We definitely have a larger population of LGBTQA+ in society, due to the fact that we've become more egalitarian, humanistic, and less intolerant than in the past. But when considering the number of children that are suffering from gender dysphoria and identifying as "gender fluid", that is clearly a social phenomenon.

Cis-gendered people, especially white cis-gendered men and women are seen as being at the bottom of the totem poll, as far as social status, within this new post-modern culture. Our youth are declaring themselves "gender fluid" and queer in order to avoid being labeled "cis" and a significant % of them are going completely trans.

More children, every day are being subjected to puberty blockers, a lifetime of dangerous (YES DANGEROUS) expensive hormone treatments and surgeries. Big pharma loves all of this gender dysphoria and "fluidity". They're cashing in. This is an extremely lucrative business. When you see who is funding the "wokeness", it's not leftists or socialists, it's big-money capitalists.
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Well Comrade, you think that I’m playing it down, but I think that I am just trying to put it into perspective agree that instances of kids coming out as trans, non-binary, gender fluid and so on is on the rise, but is it really a cause for such alarm? I think that we also agree that many trans people are in fact trans for whatever reason and truly need gender reassignment, We also agree that there seems to be more of them because they are out and more visible now. In addition, we agree that there are copy cat cases or a social contagion at play, although I have no idea what percentage of overall cases that they represent.

I think that where we part ways has to do with how we- as a society -deal with it. My position is that regardless of whether or not we are encountering a true case of gender dysphoria, we, as adults must take it seriously because we just don’t know what is going on with that young person. It could be a biologically based case of gender dysphoria, or it could be strictly psychological as the result of social influences'. It could even be a matter of intentionally faking it, in order to fit in, although I don’t know how often that happens if at all.

So there is a lot that we don’t know, but we do know that when a young person is truly experiencing gender dysphoria experiences a lot of anxiety and confusion and they are desperate for help. The issue becomes, what form does that help take. I agree that there the use of puberty blockers and hormone treatments are controversial, although it appears that they can be safe and effective when used correctly and at the right time in development. I have also read a number of accounts of children who’s mental health has deteriorated when they were denied access to such gender affirming care. Many of these kids will grow out of it, but only if they are given the support that they need stay alive long enough.

What it comes down to is that each case must be evaluated on it’s own merits and that we must go slow and be careful. For those reasons, it think that it is absolutely deplorable for states to totally ban the use of such drugs for all kids. One size does not fit all. I don’t doubt what you say about Big Pharma, but there are mental health professionals and pediatricians' who have do connection to the industry who say this is necessary in some cases.

While you think that I’m playing it down as a problem, it seems to me that you have been caught up in the right wing hysteria of the trans issue. Republicans are out to literally crucify trans kids, not only by banning gender affirming care, but with these draconian “bathroom bills” and sorts bans. And they really do not give a rats ass about the health and well being of those kids. They want to eradiate them and some have said as much. Please don’t do their bidding. I think that you are better than that. That is not Woke. If Wokeness is social justice and empathy, then caring foe these people-and not persecuting them is woke. Big pharma is not woke, it is greedy, but that does not mean that we must irrationally reject what they offer. We just need to make the right decisions that in in the best interest of those effected by them

As far as the status of cisgenders people goes, I’m just not seeing that. I don’t know what goes on in schools, but it strikes me as just more made up bullshit. As I have said, it is not a zero sum game. Rights and status can be extended to others without taking anything away from anyone else.
 
TheProgressivePatriot said:
Well Comrade, you think that I’m playing it down, but I think that I am just trying to put it into perspective agree that instances of kids coming out as trans, non-binary, gender fluid and so on is on the rise, but is it really a cause for such alarm? I think that we also agree that many trans people are in fact trans for whatever reason and truly need gender reassignment, We also agree that there seems to be more of them because they are out and more visible now. In addition, we agree that there are copy cat cases or a social contagion at play, although I have no idea what percentage of overall cases that they represent.

I think that where we part ways has to do with how we- as a society -deal with it. My position is that regardless of whether or not we are encountering a true case of gender dysphoria, we, as adults must take it seriously because we just don’t know what is going on with that young person. It could be a biologically based case of gender dysphoria, or it could be strictly psychological as the result of social influences'. It could even be a matter of intentionally faking it, in order to fit in, although I don’t know how often that happens if at all.

So there is a lot that we don’t know, but we do know that when a young person is truly experiencing gender dysphoria experiences a lot of anxiety and confusion and they are desperate for help. The issue becomes, what form does that help take. I agree that there the use of puberty blockers and hormone treatments are controversial, although it appears that they can be safe and effective when used correctly and at the right time in development. I have also read a number of accounts of children who’s mental health has deteriorated when they were denied access to such gender affirming care. Many of these kids will grow out of it, but only if they are given the support that they need stay alive long enough.

What it comes down to is that each case must be evaluated on it’s own merits and that we must go slow and be careful. For those reasons, it think that it is absolutely deplorable for states to totally ban the use of such drugs for all kids. One size does not fit all. I don’t doubt what you say about Big Pharma, but there are mental health professionals and pediatricians' who have do connection to the industry who say this is necessary in some cases.

While you think that I’m playing it down as a problem, it seems to me that you have been caught up in the right wing hysteria of the trans issue. Republicans are out to literally crucify trans kids, not only by banning gender affirming care, but with these draconian “bathroom bills” and sorts bans. And they really do not give a rats ass about the health and well being of those kids. They want to eradiate them and some have said as much. Please don’t do their bidding. I think that you are better than that. That is not Woke. If Wokeness is social justice and empathy, then caring foe these people-and not persecuting them is woke. Big pharma is not woke, it is greedy, but that does not mean that we must irrationally reject what they offer. We just need to make the right decisions that in in the best interest of those effected by them

As far as the status of cisgenders people goes, I’m just not seeing that. I don’t know what goes on in schools, but it strikes me as just more made up bullshit. As I have said, it is not a zero sum game. Rights and status can be extended to others without taking anything away from anyone else.
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Well Comrade, you think that I’m playing it down, but I think that I am just trying to put it into perspective agree that instances of kids coming out as trans, non-binary, gender fluid and so on is on the rise, but is it really a cause for such alarm?

Definitely, if it's not due to a child's (or teen's) actual gender dysphoria and it's due to some post-modernist, "social contagion" and bigoted view of "cisness", then it's definitely a problem. It undermines the treatment of actual gender dysphoria when a large number of people are identifying as "trans" for reasons that don't justify such radical medical procedures, completely altering their bodies, for life.

What happens when hundreds of thousands of people in their mid-20s, who due to an ideology, rather than a mental illness, had their bodies medically and permanently altered when they were young teens, and no longer want to live that way? The likelihood of that occurring is much higher if they're not actually suffering from gender dysphoria.

It should go without saying, that sex is binary and not "fluid". Having a bunch of people in society who are under the delusion that their sex was "assigned" to them at birth, and that being a member of a particular sex is simply a question of "self-identification" and one's opinion leads to a host of unnecessary complications and potential problems for society.

The distinction that is sometimes made between sex and gender is meaningless when 30-year-old men, who claim to be of the opposite gender, are stepping into the MMA ring to clobber and knockout actual women, or enter women's weightlifting competitions and break all of the records.

I think that we also agree that many trans people are in fact trans for whatever reason and truly need gender reassignment.

If they're adults, it's none of my business if they're choosing to identify as trans and submit themselves to hormone treatments and gender-reassignment surgery. I make it my business when children as young as nine are being injected with puberty blockers and "woke" parents, who love the attention and status of having a transgender child, push their child into transgenderism or homosexuality. Although I'm against discriminating against homosexuals and abusing them, I believe heterosexuality is healthier and better for society. I don't see homosexuality or transsexualism as a healthy alternative to "cisness". I see it as a paraphilia and disorder, despite of the Western capitalist APA declassifying homosexuality as an illness.

HIV infection and other STDs, including syphilis, is very high among transsexuals and gay men. You want your son to place himself at higher risk of being infected with HIV?

The capitalist class loves the idea of a bunch of subservient, effeminate working-class men, working for them and spending all of their money on the products and services they sell.

We also agree that there seems to be more of them because they are out and more visible now. In addition, we agree that there are copycat cases or a social contagion at play, although I have no idea what percentage of overall cases that they represent.

In the UK, transgenderism among the youth has increased by over 1200%. In the United States, a quarter of our youth are homosexuals.


I think that where we part ways has to do with how we- as a society -deal with it. My position is that regardless of whether or not we are encountering a true case of gender dysphoria, we, as adults must take it seriously because we just don’t know what is going on with that young person. It could be a biologically based case of gender dysphoria, or it could be strictly psychological as the result of social influences'. It could even be a matter of intentionally faking it, in order to fit in, although I don’t know how often that happens if at all.

There are many cases of teens adopting an anti-ciss sexuality simply to fit in and be more "progressive" and modern. I've seen many videos of teens admitting this. I have teens in my family who admit this.

So there is a lot that we don’t know, but we do know that when a young person is truly experiencing gender dysphoria experiences a lot of anxiety and confusion and they are desperate for help. The issue becomes, what form does that help take. I agree that there the use of puberty blockers and hormone treatments are controversial, although it appears that they can be safe and effective when used correctly and at the right time in development.

We still don't know the long-term repercussions of using puberty blockers. These children are essentially guinea pigs. What we do know is that about 75% of children with gender dysphoria, resolve it when they go through puberty. They begin to identify with their real gender and see themselves as gay or lesbian.

I have also read a number of accounts of children who’s mental health has deteriorated when they were denied access to such gender-affirming care. Many of these kids will grow out of it, but only if they are given the support that they need stay alive long enough.

Yes, I agree. They should receive plenty of support and assistance to get through it. To what extent these children are being steered by their woke parents into this condition should be a concern:

​


What it comes down to is that each case must be evaluated on its own merits and that we must go slow and be careful. For those reasons, I think that it is absolutely deplorable for states to totally ban the use of such drugs for all kids. One size does not fit all. I don’t doubt what you say about Big Pharma, but there are mental health professionals and pediatricians' who have do connection to the industry who say this is necessary in some cases.

I believe we can do better for children suffering from gender dysphoria, than puberty blockers and snip-snip. We can be more creative than that. Let them decide when they reach 18, if they want to begin hormone treatments and get operated on. To do it before then runs a serious risk of it not being in the best interest of the child. The exaggerated concern that these children are going to commit suicide is just a talking point used by the woke to justify subjecting children to puberty blockers and the "snip-snip". The "social contagion" is probably more responsible for the suicides that have actually happened, than the ciss-gendered "fascists" and transphobes.


While you think that I’m playing it down as a problem, it seems to me that you have been caught up in the right wing hysteria of the trans issue. Republicans are out to literally crucify trans kids, not only by banning gender affirming care, but with these draconian “bathroom bills” and sorts bans.

Treatment should not reaffirm gender dysphoria but try to eliminate it whenever possible. This is a new crisis, created by post-modernist woke liberals.

And they really do not give a rats ass about the health and well-being of those kids.

Bullshit, it's the wokes who don't care about these children, using them as guinea pigs in their social experiment and liberal agenda.

They want to eradicate them and some have said as much. Please don’t do their bidding. I think that you are better than that. That is not Woke. If Wokeness is social justice and empathy, then caring foe these people-and not persecuting them is woke. Big pharma is not woke, it is greedy, but that does not mean that we must irrationally reject what they offer. We just need to make the right decisions that in in the best interest of those effected by them

As far as the status of cisgender people goes, I’m just not seeing that. I don’t know what goes on in schools, but it strikes me as just more made-up bullshit. As I have said, it is not a zero-sum game. Rights and status can be extended to others without taking anything away from anyone else.

You have your head in the sand like an ostrich, if you believe cis-gendered people, especially white cis-gendered men and women aren't disparaged and even hated among the woke youth. Much of this explosion in queer culture and transsexualism is due to an ideological, social movement against everything that is normal. Anti-Normie. Because for them, the normies are supposedly the purveyors of injustice and everything inhumane.
 
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15th post
CommunistFront said:
Well Comrade, you think that I’m playing it down, but I think that I am just trying to put it into perspective agree that instances of kids coming out as trans, non-binary, gender fluid and so on is on the rise, but is it really a cause for such alarm?

Definitely, if it's not due to a child's (or teen's) actual gender dysphoria and it's due to some post-modernist, "social contagion" and bigoted view of "cisness", then it's definitely a problem. It undermines the treatment of actual gender dysphoria when a large number of people are identifying as "trans" for reasons that don't justify such radical medical procedures, completely altering their bodies, for life.

What happens when hundreds of thousands of people in their mid-20s, who due to an ideology, rather than a mental illness, had their bodies medically and permanently altered when they were young teens, and no longer want to live that way? The likelihood of that occurring is much higher if they're not actually suffering from gender dysphoria.

It should go without saying, that sex is binary and not "fluid". Having a bunch of people in society who are under the delusion that their sex was "assigned" to them at birth, and that being a member of a particular sex is simply a question of "self-identification" and one's opinion leads to a host of unnecessary complications and potential problems for society.

The distinction that is sometimes made between sex and gender is meaningless when 30-year-old men, who claim to be of the opposite gender, are stepping into the MMA ring to clobber and knockout actual women, or enter women's weightlifting competitions and break all of the records.

I think that we also agree that many trans people are in fact trans for whatever reason and truly need gender reassignment.

If they're adults, it's none of my business if they're choosing to identify as trans and submit themselves to hormone treatments and gender-reassignment surgery. I make it my business when children as young as nine are being injected with puberty blockers and "woke" parents, who love the attention and status of having a transgender child, push their child into transgenderism or homosexuality. Although I'm against discriminating against homosexuals and abusing them, I believe heterosexuality is healthier and better for society. I don't see homosexuality or transsexualism as a healthy alternative to "cisness". I see it as a paraphilia and disorder, despite of the Western capitalist APA declassifying homosexuality as an illness.

HIV infection and other STDs, including syphilis, is very high among transsexuals and gay men. You want your son to place himself at higher risk of being infected with HIV?

The capitalist class loves the idea of a bunch of subservient, effeminate working-class men, working for them and spending all of their money on the products and services they sell.

We also agree that there seems to be more of them because they are out and more visible now. In addition, we agree that there are copycat cases or a social contagion at play, although I have no idea what percentage of overall cases that they represent.

In the UK, transgenderism among the youth has increased by over 1200%. In the United States, a quarter of our youth are homosexuals.


I think that where we part ways has to do with how we- as a society -deal with it. My position is that regardless of whether or not we are encountering a true case of gender dysphoria, we, as adults must take it seriously because we just don’t know what is going on with that young person. It could be a biologically based case of gender dysphoria, or it could be strictly psychological as the result of social influences'. It could even be a matter of intentionally faking it, in order to fit in, although I don’t know how often that happens if at all.

There are many cases of teens adopting an anti-ciss sexuality simply to fit in and be more "progressive" and modern. I've seen many videos of teens admitting this. I have teens in my family who admit this.

So there is a lot that we don’t know, but we do know that when a young person is truly experiencing gender dysphoria experiences a lot of anxiety and confusion and they are desperate for help. The issue becomes, what form does that help take. I agree that there the use of puberty blockers and hormone treatments are controversial, although it appears that they can be safe and effective when used correctly and at the right time in development.

We still don't know the long-term repercussions of using puberty blockers. These children are essentially guinea pigs. What we do know is that about 75% of children with gender dysphoria, resolve it when they go through puberty. They begin to identify with their real gender and see themselves as gay or lesbian.

I have also read a number of accounts of children who’s mental health has deteriorated when they were denied access to such gender-affirming care. Many of these kids will grow out of it, but only if they are given the support that they need stay alive long enough.

Yes, I agree. They should receive plenty of support and assistance to get through it. To what extent these children are being steered by their woke parents into this condition should be a concern:

​


What it comes down to is that each case must be evaluated on its own merits and that we must go slow and be careful. For those reasons, I think that it is absolutely deplorable for states to totally ban the use of such drugs for all kids. One size does not fit all. I don’t doubt what you say about Big Pharma, but there are mental health professionals and pediatricians' who have do connection to the industry who say this is necessary in some cases.

I believe we can do better for children suffering from gender dysphoria, than puberty blockers and snip-snip. We can be more creative than that. Let them decide when they reach 18, if they want to begin hormone treatments and get operated on. To do it before then runs a serious risk of it not being in the best interest of the child. The exaggerated concern that these children are going to commit suicide is just a talking point used by the woke to justify subjecting children to puberty blockers and the "snip-snip". The "social contagion" is probably more responsible for the suicides that have actually happened, than the ciss-gendered "fascists" and transphobes.


While you think that I’m playing it down as a problem, it seems to me that you have been caught up in the right wing hysteria of the trans issue. Republicans are out to literally crucify trans kids, not only by banning gender affirming care, but with these draconian “bathroom bills” and sorts bans.

Treatment should not reaffirm gender dysphoria but try to eliminate it whenever possible. This is a new crisis, created by post-modernist woke liberals.

And they really do not give a rats ass about the health and well-being of those kids.

Bullshit, it's the wokes who don't care about these children, using them as guinea pigs in their social experiment and liberal agenda.

They want to eradicate them and some have said as much. Please don’t do their bidding. I think that you are better than that. That is not Woke. If Wokeness is social justice and empathy, then caring foe these people-and not persecuting them is woke. Big pharma is not woke, it is greedy, but that does not mean that we must irrationally reject what they offer. We just need to make the right decisions that in in the best interest of those effected by them

As far as the status of cisgender people goes, I’m just not seeing that. I don’t know what goes on in schools, but it strikes me as just more made-up bullshit. As I have said, it is not a zero-sum game. Rights and status can be extended to others without taking anything away from anyone else.

You have your head in the sand like an ostrich, if you believe cis-gendered people, especially white cis-gendered men and women aren't disparaged and even hated among the woke youth. Much of this explosion in queer culture and transsexualism is due to an ideological, social movement against everything that is normal. Anti-Normie. Because for them, the normies are supposedly the purveyors of injustice and everything inhumane.
Click to expand...

Well Comrade, this does not seem to be getting us anywhere. We seem to be existing in different realities. I would be interested in knowing where you get some of the ideas and information that you present. For instance, your claims that Cisgender people are not well regarded by the trans community. Is that something that you have experienced first hand, or is it something that you have been told-or read? You may have encountered a few kids who identify as trans because it’s cool- I myself acknowledged that they exist. But that does not mean that they –or the trans community as a whole-harbor disdain for cis people If there are some who do, it is wrong on their part-but just as wrong for you to condemn all transpeople for it.

You seem to be focused on the number of children that are not really trans, but do not seem to be supportive of gender affirming care for the others. You claim to be supportive of trans people but I am not hearing a lot of support for the gender affirming care that many actually need. You say that adults can do whatever they want but refuse to acknowledge the urgence that some teens might experience which can mean life or death. I acknowledged your legitimate concern over the use of drugs in kids and said that they must be used cautiously. However, you steadfastly cling to what seems to be your position that they should never be used, despite the evidence that they can save lives, and that when used appropriately, the effects can be reversed.

You bemoan the possibility of having large number of people in society who frivolously “chose a gender” while neither presenting any evidence that that is the case, or making a cogent argument as to why that would be a problem.
Then you interject the red herring of HIV infection and other STDs, including high among transsexuals and gay men which has little to do with the issue of gender affirming care. With that tripe, you seem to suggest that if we withhold the care they will not be trans and not catch diseases. Tell us more about how you’re supportive of trans people. When you said that you were not anti trans I took you at your word. Now I have my doubts. Just listen to yourself!

Then you go off on a rant about how “homosexuality or transsexualism is not a healthy alternative to "cisness". And then state that “I see it as a paraphilia and disorder” and decry the fact that homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness . Comrade, that is not very woke. Now I see why you said work was crap” You can’t be woke and be a bigot at the same time. I said that I thought that we had some common ground, but you now have succeeded in eroding that notion. I could go on but I will end it here. I have better things to do and my work is done here.
 
TheProgressivePatriot said:
Well Comrade, this does not seem to be getting us anywhere. We seem to be existing in different realities. I would be interested in knowing where you get some of the ideas and information that you present. For instance, your claims that Cisgender people are not well regarded by the trans community. Is that something that you have experienced first hand, or is it something that you have been told-or read? You may have encountered a few kids who identify as trans because it’s cool- I myself acknowledged that they exist. But that does not mean that they –or the trans community as a whole-harbor disdain for cis people If there are some who do, it is wrong on their part-but just as wrong for you to condemn all transpeople for it.

You seem to be focused on the number of children that are not really trans, but do not seem to be supportive of gender affirming care for the others. You claim to be supportive of trans people but I am not hearing a lot of support for the gender affirming care that many actually need. You say that adults can do whatever they want but refuse to acknowledge the urgence that some teens might experience which can mean life or death. I acknowledged your legitimate concern over the use of drugs in kids and said that they must be used cautiously. However, you steadfastly cling to what seems to be your position that they should never be used, despite the evidence that they can save lives, and that when used appropriately, the effects can be reversed.

You bemoan the possibility of having large number of people in society who frivolously “chose a gender” while neither presenting any evidence that that is the case, or making a cogent argument as to why that would be a problem.
Then you interject the red herring of HIV infection and other STDs, including high among transsexuals and gay men which has little to do with the issue of gender affirming care. With that tripe, you seem to suggest that if we withhold the care they will not be trans and not catch diseases. Tell us more about how you’re supportive of trans people. When you said that you were not anti trans I took you at your word. Now I have my doubts. Just listen to yourself!

Then you go off on a rant about how “homosexuality or transsexualism is not a healthy alternative to "cisness". And then state that “I see it as a paraphilia and disorder” and decry the fact that homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness . Comrade, that is not very woke. Now I see why you said work was crap” You can’t be woke and be a bigot at the same time. I said that I thought that we had some common ground, but you now have succeeded in eroding that notion. I could go on but I will end it here. I have better things to do and my work is done here.
Click to expand...

Well Comrade, this does not seem to be getting us anywhere. We seem to be existing in different realities. I would be interested in knowing where you get some of the ideas and information that you present. For instance, your claims that Cisgender people are not well regarded by the trans community.


I didn't use such general terms, like "trans-community", but rather "wokeness", especially among the "woke-youth". Transsexuals in general, don't have any hangups with "cissness" or normies, it's the "woke".


Is that something that you have experienced firsthand, or is it something that you have been told-or read?


I have firsthand experience. I've met them and talked to them on campuses here in NYC. I have family members who are in their teens and in college. I personally take courses in college every once in a while and sit right next to them.


You may have encountered a few kids who identify as trans because it’s cool- I myself acknowledged that they exist.
But that does not mean that they –or the trans community as a whole-harbor disdain for cis people If there are some who do, it is wrong on their part-but just as wrong for you to condemn all transpeople for it.
I don't condemn all transsexuals or LGBTQA+ people, that's your straw man.

You seem to be focused on the number of children that are not really trans, but do not seem to be supportive of gender affirming care for the others.

I believe whatever treatment allows these children to function and have a life, should be administered. Puberty blockers and surgeries should be avoided till they're legal adults. About 75% of them grow out of their dysphoria through puberty, so to subject them to puberty blockers or start cutting breasts and genitals off, is bad medicine, in view of them being able to resolve the illness without such radical, life-altering, irreversible procedures.


You claim to be supportive of trans people but I am not hearing a lot of support for the gender affirming care that many actually need. You say that adults can do whatever they want but refuse to acknowledge the urgence that some teens might experience which can mean life or death. I acknowledged your legitimate concern over the use of drugs in kids and said that they must be used cautiously. However, you steadfastly cling to what seems to be your position that they should never be used, despite the evidence that they can save lives, and that when used appropriately, the effects can be reversed.


www.iwf.org

Puberty Blockers Were Never Reversible or Temporary | IWF

A recent in-depth report by the New York Times confirmed what many gender critics have long known to be true: puberty blockers and other experimental hormonal treatments are not temporary or reversible, as activists like to claim.
www.iwf.org www.iwf.org

It's not reversible. You're stuck with a micro-penis for the rest of your life. Puberty doesn't just start up when you stop taking puberty blockers after a few years. Whoever told you that is lying to you.
 
CommunistFront said:
Well Comrade, this does not seem to be getting us anywhere. We seem to be existing in different realities. I would be interested in knowing where you get some of the ideas and information that you present. For instance, your claims that Cisgender people are not well regarded by the trans community.


I didn't use such general terms, like "trans-community", but rather "wokeness", especially among the "woke-youth". Transsexuals in general, don't have any hangups with "cissness" or normies, it's the "woke".


Is that something that you have experienced firsthand, or is it something that you have been told-or read?


I have firsthand experience. I've met them and talked to them on campuses here in NYC. I have family members who are in their teens and in college. I personally take courses in college every once in a while and sit right next to them.
Click to expand...
Ah, so now it’s only woke trans people who you have a problem with.? I feel the sands shifting under my feet. Could have fooled me. Is it because it is the woke ones who you think have a problem with cis people ? When you sat next to them, did they tell you how inferior you are to them?
 
CommunistFront said:
I believe whatever treatment allows these children to function and have a life, should be administered. Puberty blockers and surgeries should be avoided till they're legal adults. About 75% of them grow out of their dysphoria through puberty, so to subject them to puberty blockers or start cutting breasts and genitals off, is bad medicine, in view of them being able to resolve the illness without such radical, life-altering, irreversible procedures.
Click to expand...
As I said, I recognize the fact that it is complicated and contoversial. But there is plenty of evidence that counters you position
 
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