Police Beat a 15 year old girl, and thats just for starters

[Xenophon]

More and more incompitents are getting into law enforcement these days, lower standards and lower pay is teh reason.

Is that real, or does it just seem that way?

Its real in NY, Police have a starting salary under 30 grand.

I have had police here who did not even understand the law (two rookies told me once that people could play blasting loud music all they wanted before 10 PM, it's the law they claimed. Of course, that is NOT the law, in fact there is a hard decible level and if its exceeded they are required to issue a summons).

These were men out of academy less then a year, I know this because I had a sargeant come to scene (this is required in NYC when someone is disastisfied by what police do in a given situation) and he repremanded them on the spot for not knowing the law, not enforcing the law and giving false information to a citizen issuing a complaint.

This is basically what is happening all over the country.

Dimwits who think a badge of a free ride to lord it over people are becoming the police.

 

[Agnapostate]

This may be semantics, but I think respect is given, until there is a reason not to give it. Glass half empty or half full?

I agree, and my point was that greater respect shouldn't necessarily be given just because of the greater age of one party. That should not imply a hierarchical relationship.

Schools have rules. If you disobey the rules, see you later.

I'm aware of that. However, some school rules and policies are in conflict with the Constitution, and students possess some degree of constitutional rights in schools, contrary to popular belief.

You want the inmates to run the asylum?

In some capacity, yes. I believe that schools should be democratically managed by their students and instructors.

It's beyond ridiculous to even allow cell phones in class rooms. Put them in your locker until lunchtime, then do WTF you want during lunch. It's the height of rudeness. You wouldn't happen to think it Ok to take calls at the movies would you?

It would indeed be rude to have a loud and animated phone conversation in the middle of an instruction period inside the classroom. But I suggested no such thing; I instead suggested that students who needed to make or receive calls briefly step outside of the classroom so as not to interrupt or disturb others.

 

[Dr Grump]

It would indeed be rude to have a loud and animated phone conversation in the middle of an instruction period inside the classroom. But I suggested no such thing; I instead suggested that students who needed to make or receive calls briefly step outside of the classroom so as not to interrupt or disturb others.

I totally disagree. You are a minor, you are at school, you obey their rules. If not, get home schooled. Using your scenario, if you have 25 kids in a class room, you could potentially have 25 kids outside taking calls at once, or each kid ducking out every minute or so. You don't think that would be disruptive? Cell phones have only been around for 10 years. Kids survived without them for centuries before they got them, they can survive without them in the classroom.

 

[tigerbob]

It would indeed be rude to have a loud and animated phone conversation in the middle of an instruction period inside the classroom. But I suggested no such thing; I instead suggested that students who needed to make or receive calls briefly step outside of the classroom so as not to interrupt or disturb others.

I totally disagree. You are a minor, you are at school, you obey their rules. If not, get home schooled. Using your scenario, if you have 25 kids in a class room, you could potentially have 25 kids outside taking calls at once, or each kid ducking out every minute or so. You don't think that would be disruptive? Cell phones have only been around for 10 years. Kids survived without them for centuries before they got them, they can survive without them in the classroom.

The only reason to take a call in class would be for a family emergency. Under such circumstances, parents know the number of the school, right? So phone the school office and ask for the kid to be called out of class. I don't understand why this is even an issue.

 

[Dr Grump]

The only reason to take a call in class would be for a family emergency. Under such circumstances, parents know the number of the school, right? So phone the school office and ask for the kid to be called out of class. I don't understand why this is even an issue.

Neither do I. I was beginning to think maybe it is an age thing, but if you take Agna's argument to its logical conclusion, hell, why not have the kids set the tests? Why not give them the answers before they sit the tests? How about making lunch time 5 hours and instruction 3? Hell, why not just let the kids run the school and do what they want?

 

[Care4all]

More and more incompitents are getting into law enforcement these days, lower standards and lower pay is teh reason.

can low or lower pay for teachers be used as an excuse for our educational system as well?

 

[Care4all]

This may be semantics, but I think respect is given, until there is a reason not to give it. Glass half empty or half full?

I agree, and my point was that greater respect shouldn't necessarily be given just because of the greater age of one party. That should not imply a hierarchical relationship.

Schools have rules. If you disobey the rules, see you later.

I'm aware of that. However, some school rules and policies are in conflict with the Constitution, and students possess some degree of constitutional rights in schools, contrary to popular belief.

You want the inmates to run the asylum?

In some capacity, yes. I believe that schools should be democratically managed by their students and instructors.

It's beyond ridiculous to even allow cell phones in class rooms. Put them in your locker until lunchtime, then do WTF you want during lunch. It's the height of rudeness. You wouldn't happen to think it Ok to take calls at the movies would you?

It would indeed be rude to have a loud and animated phone conversation in the middle of an instruction period inside the classroom. But I suggested no such thing; I instead suggested that students who needed to make or receive calls briefly step outside of the classroom so as not to interrupt or disturb others.

OH MY GOSH, Agna!!!!!!!! Your Avatar is disgusting and so disrespectful!!!!!!!!!!!! (though i did chuckle for a second, admittingly)

care

 

[Agnapostate]

I totally disagree. You are a minor, you are at school, you obey their rules.

Obey their constitutional rules. There is no moral or legal obligation to adhere to unconstitutional school rules and policies. And the level of authoritarianism in the modern school system is authoritarian even beyond mere unconstitutionality.

If not, get home schooled. Using your scenario, if you have 25 kids in a class room, you could potentially have 25 kids outside taking calls at once, or each kid ducking out every minute or so. You don't think that would be disruptive? Cell phones have only been around for 10 years.

If so, that would indicate that they don't find classwork or instruction sufficiently interesting, which is a deeper problem that authoritarian solutions will not cure. After my quick transition from high school to college, I found that it was possible to simply quietly exit to make or receive phone calls in the latter, yet there was no massive disruption caused by this.

Kids survived without them for centuries before they got them, they can survive without them in the classroom.

Of course, but to a great extent, modern high school "kids" weren't considered "kids" at all until about the past century and a half.

The only reason to take a call in class would be for a family emergency. Under such circumstances, parents know the number of the school, right? So phone the school office and ask for the kid to be called out of class. I don't understand why this is even an issue.

I don't happen to agree with the assumption that that would be the only reason one might need to take a call in class, and that's simply spawned by an ageist belief that the needs and desires of younger people are somehow inferior to the needs and desires of older people, since few would claim that a 45 year old man taking a college course should have his phone confiscated if he tries to use it.

Neither do I. I was beginning to think maybe it is an age thing, but if you take Agna's argument to its logical conclusion, hell, why not have the kids set the tests? Why not give them the answers before they sit the tests? How about making lunch time 5 hours and instruction 3? Hell, why not just let the kids run the school and do what they want?

Actually, yes, I'd personally favor a framework of unschooling and autodidacticism (self-directed learning) in conjunction with the establishment of libertarian forms of education, for example, schools that are democratically managed by their students. For example, we might refer to Summerhill School, in which the school functions as a democratic community managed based on consensus from students. And honestly, if you're inclined to believe that democratic input from students would destabilize the school system, one wonders whether they're really prepared to learn much from it in the first place, as well as whether this apparent immaturity is itself a cost of school indoctrination. Summerhill continues to operate smoothly and function democratically, likely because student input is valued from young childhood. For example, consider unschooled "autodidacts"; I think you'd find that they're far more well-educated and intelligent than their peers in the formal schooling system, a fact well summarized by Colin Roch, a 12 year old unschooler who declared, "Comparing me to those who are conventionally schooled is like comparing the freedoms of a wild stallion to those of cattle in a feedlot."

 

[Agnapostate]

OH MY GOSH, Agna!!!!!!!! Your Avatar is disgusting and so disrespectful!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell, it ain't just the avatar, dear. That's only a symptom.

 

[Care4all]

OH MY GOSH, Agna!!!!!!!! Your Avatar is disgusting and so disrespectful!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell, it ain't just the avatar, dear. That's only a symptom.

NO KIDDING!

 

[Barb]

YouTube - Police Beat a 15 year old girl, and thats just for starters

Those officers should go to jail with the people they helped put there. Its bad enough the criminal justice system doesn't protect children as it should, now it is victimizing them.

As for the prisons for profit and the dirt bags who used their positions to sell kids into the system, this is what happens when govt. services are privatized. Prison labor in this country is a scandal, and nobody, not even the unions, are pointing out that we've got ourselves a hopping little slave trade going on.

Smith, P. (1993), Private Prisons: Profits of Crime, Covert Action Quarterly retrieved July 15, 2007 from http://mediafilter.org/caq/Prison.html

Baker, J. and Whyte, A. (8 May, 2000) Prison Labor on the Rise in US World Socialist Website retrieved July 13, 2007 from Prison labor on the rise in US

Finn, E. (no date) Lying With Statistics, What’s the real U.S. unemployment rate? Canadian Forum, retrieved July 13, 2007 from Unemployment in USA

 

[Barb]

I don't side with the deputy, but there is a HUGE problem with kids in this country and respect. What was said when the shoes were kicked etc. Still doesn't excuse the deputys reaction, but ....
Its no different with adults stop means stop and down means down and if you dont comply oh well.

Respect is earned, not granted merely on the basis of greater age to individuals who don't deserve it otherwise.

This may be semantics, but I think respect is given, until there is a reason not to give it. Glass half empty or half full?

People, especially adults in positions of power over children, often confuse lack of deference with lack of respect, and their right to the second in no way implies their right to the first. Their insistence on the first, often as not, is what leads to the lack of the second.

 

[Douger]

******* Nazi hall monitoring pussies.
Go over here and search for Nazi........I got temporarily banned for calling a mod a ******* Nazi so I haven't posted any pig/Nazi videos over there in a few weeks
xxxxxxx-you cannot link to other boards on here.

 

[tigerbob]

I totally disagree. You are a minor, you are at school, you obey their rules.

Obey their constitutional rules. There is no moral or legal obligation to adhere to unconstitutional school rules and policies. And the level of authoritarianism in the modern school system is authoritarian even beyond mere unconstitutionality.

If not, get home schooled. Using your scenario, if you have 25 kids in a class room, you could potentially have 25 kids outside taking calls at once, or each kid ducking out every minute or so. You don't think that would be disruptive? Cell phones have only been around for 10 years.

If so, that would indicate that they don't find classwork or instruction sufficiently interesting, which is a deeper problem that authoritarian solutions will not cure. After my quick transition from high school to college, I found that it was possible to simply quietly exit to make or receive phone calls in the latter, yet there was no massive disruption caused by this.



Of course, but to a great extent, modern high school "kids" weren't considered "kids" at all until about the past century and a half.

The only reason to take a call in class would be for a family emergency. Under such circumstances, parents know the number of the school, right? So phone the school office and ask for the kid to be called out of class. I don't understand why this is even an issue.

I don't happen to agree with the assumption that that would be the only reason one might need to take a call in class, and that's simply spawned by an ageist belief that the needs and desires of younger people are somehow inferior to the needs and desires of older people, since few would claim that a 45 year old man taking a college course should have his phone confiscated if he tries to use it.

Neither do I. I was beginning to think maybe it is an age thing, but if you take Agna's argument to its logical conclusion, hell, why not have the kids set the tests? Why not give them the answers before they sit the tests? How about making lunch time 5 hours and instruction 3? Hell, why not just let the kids run the school and do what they want?

Actually, yes, I'd personally favor a framework of unschooling and autodidacticism (self-directed learning) in conjunction with the establishment of libertarian forms of education, for example, schools that are democratically managed by their students. For example, we might refer to Summerhill School, in which the school functions as a democratic community managed based on consensus from students. And honestly, if you're inclined to believe that democratic input from students would destabilize the school system, one wonders whether they're really prepared to learn much from it in the first place, as well as whether this apparent immaturity is itself a cost of school indoctrination. Summerhill continues to operate smoothly and function democratically, likely because student input is valued from young childhood. For example, consider unschooled "autodidacts"; I think you'd find that they're far more well-educated and intelligent than their peers in the formal schooling system, a fact well summarized by Colin Roch, a 12 year old unschooler who declared, "Comparing me to those who are conventionally schooled is like comparing the freedoms of a wild stallion to those of cattle in a feedlot."

I'm about that age and would never have my phone turned on in a meeting. At very most it would be on vibe, then I would check any messages or texts in a break.

What, other than an emergency, it so urgent in a child's life that it has to be answered immediately? An invitation to get some ice cream? The latest gossip about the Jonas Brothers? Jenny dumped Mark during recess? Oh my God have you seen what Jaznella is wearing today?

GMAFB.

 

[Agnapostate]

I'm about that age and would never have my phone turned on in a meeting. At very most it would be on vibe, then I would check any messages or texts in a break.

What, other than an emergency, it so urgent in a child's life that it has to be answered immediately? An invitation to get some ice cream? The latest gossip about the Jonas Brothers? Jenny dumped Mark during recess? Oh my God have you seen what Jaznella is wearing today?

GMAFB.

What, other than an emergency, is so urgent in an older person's life that it has to be answered immediately, since you conveniently sidestepped the question of whether you would impose a different standard on an older person? Are older people not subject to the same crude whims and petty tendencies, to the same propensity to gossip and gab when more important things have to be done, even as exaggerated as that tendency is among youth?

GMAFB.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I would support banning cell phones all together in public schools.

 

[AllieBaba]

Respect is earned, not granted merely on the basis of greater age to individuals who don't deserve it otherwise.

This may be semantics, but I think respect is given, until there is a reason not to give it. Glass half empty or half full?

People, especially adults in positions of power over children, often confuse lack of deference with lack of respect, and their right to the second in no way implies their right to the first. Their insistence on the first, often as not, is what leads to the lack of the second.

That may or not be so, but something else is to remember...if you are a ******* teacher of middle school and high school students, I'm sorry, you are going to be subject to ridicule, macho challenges, name calling, funny caricatures, spitballs, threats, and the amusing emotional breakdown from time to time.

It's the nature of the business. If it's too much for your ego, do something like manage a K-mart store, or Taco Time or something.

I'm sorry, but if a kid stood up and told me to **** off, I'd say, "good bye, you can return to class when you bring your guardian with you to discuss this. Call me with a time, have a nice day." I can't imagine even a totally whacked out teen aged boy remaining in the class to rant and rave when given permission to leave.

 

[Agnapostate]

 

[DiveCon]

I would support banning cell phones all together in public schools.

i wouldnt
but i would support strict rules of use
with exceptions on a case by case basis
no phone should be used for txting or pics or outgoing calls during school
and that if an emergency happens, the parent should contact the office and have the child removed before making the phone call
the only exception i can see for that part is military since one never knows in advance when they would get the chance to call home from a battle field

 

[Sweet Willy]

I would support banning cell phones all together in public schools.

i wouldnt
but i would support strict rules of use
with exceptions on a case by case basis
no phone should be used for txting or pics or outgoing calls during school
and that if an emergency happens, the parent should contact the office and have the child removed before making the phone call
the only exception i can see for that part is military since one never knows in advance when they would get the chance to call home from a battle field

There is enough to deal with in school without teachers having to be cell phone police too. Just get rid of them. Not needed in school.