Polar Vortex

[Grumblenuts]

{Note: this topic is not about Climate Change, Global Warming, or Greenhouse Gases}

They claim we just got "blasted" again here in the NE with another "polar vortex" and that it will likely happen again within the coming weeks before winter mercifully goes away. Local reaction sounds like, "I just planted two hundred petunias. Sure hope they survive!" Meanwhile, stuck back inside again, I just ponder the term "polar vortex" itself. One of these terms that's always struck me as plain wrong. To me, it suggests Daniel Day-Lewis, from There Will Be Blood, as The North Pole dipping a straw from his milkshake into our warm weather and blowing it all away instead of sucking it up -or- Old Man Winter competing with the Sun to get some guy to put his coat back on.

Anyway, here's the problem. Hot goes to cold, not vice-versa. Always. Scientifically verifiable fact. Cold sucks heat from your body causing you to shiver. You heat your home in winter to replace to the warmth bleeding out of it into the colder environment, not because cold air is getting in through the same openings as commonly described. Heat flux, never cold flux.

Similarly, these "polar vortices" are commonly presented as coming out of the Arctic or Antarctic. Example:

The polar vortex is a giant stream of frigid air that normally circulates tightly up in the stratosphere around the North Pole, but occasionally the circulation weakens when the stratosphere warms up.

When this happens, pockets of Arctic air break away from the polar region, drift down into Canada and then into the northern United States. It also could drift into other parts of the northern hemisphere, like Europe and Asia.

The polar vortex is a band of frigid air that circulates around the North Pole. It occasionally weakens, allowing Arctic air to drift down into the United States. NOAA

Note how "the stratosphere" magically "warms up" apparently with no further explanation called for. Could it just be due to more spring Sun? If so, how come this sort of thing is now going on in the fall, all winter long, and well into the spring?

 

[Dekster]

The planet tilts on its axis, The effects are more pronounced in winter be that the northern hemisphere winter or the southern hemisphere one. This happens every 2 or 3 years when the vortex weakens and splits into two, causing it to interact more with the jet stream.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The effects are more pronounced in winter be that the northern hemisphere winter or the southern hemisphere one. This happens every 2 or 3 years when the vortex weakens and splits into two, causing it to interact more with the jet stream.

Really? Please elaborate. What "effects"? What do you mean by "the vortex"? Why "every 2 to 3 years"? What do you suppose drives these polar vortices?

 

[Dekster]

Really? Please elaborate. What "effects"? What do you mean by "the vortex"? Why "every 2 to 3 years"? What do you suppose drives these polar vortices?

The polar votex is basically a stable cyclone of cold air over the north pole. When the pole is tilting away from the sun, the air gets colder there but starts to get affected by warmer air coming from the south. Every 14 months or so, the high altitude wind above the equator reverses itself meaning it goes east to west about 14 months and then shifts west to east for about the next 14 months. This is called the Quasi-Biennial Oscillation. The QBE affects the jet stream. When it is blowing westerly, it speeds up the jet stream and we have warmer dryer winters in America. When it is in an easterly phase, it weakens the jet stream. When the jet stream weakens during winters, pressure differentials driven mostly by warming events happen, the vortex "collapses" or often splits which allows more cold air to penetrate further south than it normally would

 

[whitehall]

Isn't it possible that the Fukashima earthquake that actually moved Japan a couple of feet and shifted the earth slightly on it's axis, has affected weather patterns? Nobody discusses it because there is no money to be made off it and nobody to blame.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

{Note: this topic is not about Climate Change, Global Warming, or Greenhouse Gases}

They claim we just got "blasted" again here in the NE with another "polar vortex" and that it will likely happen again within the coming weeks before winter mercifully goes away. Local reaction sounds like, "I just planted two hundred petunias. Sure hope they survive!" Meanwhile, stuck back inside again, I just ponder the term "polar vortex" itself. One of these terms that's always struck me as plain wrong. To me, it suggests Daniel Day-Lewis, from There Will Be Blood, as The North Pole dipping a straw from his milkshake into our warm weather and blowing it all away instead of sucking it up -or- Old Man Winter competing with the Sun to get some guy to put his coat back on.

Anyway, here's the problem. Hot goes to cold, not vice-versa. Always. Scientifically verifiable fact. Cold sucks heat from your body causing you to shiver. You heat your home in winter to replace to the warmth bleeding out of it into the colder environment, not because cold air is getting in through the same openings as commonly described. Heat flux, never cold flux.

Similarly, these "polar vortices" are commonly presented as coming out of the Arctic or Antarctic. Example:



Note how "the stratosphere" magically "warms up" apparently with no further explanation called for. Could it just be due to more spring Sun? If so, how come this sort of thing is now going on in the fall, all winter long, and well into the spring?

21F in NY this morning

 

[ReinyDays]

The polar votex is basically a stable cyclone of cold air over the north pole. When the pole is tilting away from the sun, the air gets colder there but starts to get affected by warmer air coming from the south. Every 14 months or so, the high altitude wind above the equator reverses itself meaning it goes east to west about 14 months and then shifts west to east for about the next 14 months. This is called the Quasi-Biennial Oscillation. The QBE affects the jet stream. When it is blowing westerly, it speeds up the jet stream and we have warmer dryer winters in America. When it is in an easterly phase, it weakens the jet stream. When the jet stream weakens during winters, pressure differentials driven mostly by warming events happen, the vortex "collapses" or often splits which allows more cold air to penetrate further south than it normally would

What an excellent reply ... though from poking around, these are still somewhat controversial theories ... but good enough for my comments ... but nice hit ...

 

[Dekster]

What an excellent reply ... though from poking around, these are still somewhat controversial theories ... but good enough for my comments ... but nice hit ...

I have my doubts that the QBO really happens for the reasons they believe. That thing is as clockwork as the seasons changing, but they attribute it to tropical storms. Tropical storms, however, do not occur with the regularity of the wind reversal. Scientist, however, refuse to just throw up their hands and say, "No effing idea why. It just happens".

 

[Grumblenuts]

Thanks, I suppose, for that meteorological science recap. But what I'm really looking for are explanations that stress and remain consistent with the physical fact that hot always naturally goes toward cold, never the reverse.

When the pole is tilting away from the sun, the air gets colder there

Example substitute: Because the Sun spends less time heating the pole when it's tilting away, the pole ends up releasing relatively more of its heat to space than it would otherwise. How do you see a "cyclone of cold air" starting to begin with at the poles? What makes the air want to spin around so vigorously there? How much of it can one logically attribute it to the Coriolis effect? How do atmospheric differences in "pressure" cause such axial circulation?

 

[Dekster]

Thanks, I suppose, for that meteorological science recap, but what I'm really looking for are explanations that remain consistent with the physical fact that hot always naturally goes toward cold, never the reverse.

Example substitute: Because the Sun spends less time heating the pole when it's tilting away, the pole ends up releasing relatively more of its heat to space than it would otherwise. How do you see a "cyclone of cold air" starting to begin with at the poles? What makes the air want to spin around so vigorously there? How much of it can one logically attribute it to the Coriolis effect?

Well for one the planet is skinnier at the poles. The north pole, at least, also doesn't have a lot of high terrain. For another, I am not sure your physical fact is exactly right. Cold fronts often are the result of cold air overtaking warmer air. It pushes the warm air naturally up and moves in underneath. This is often referred to as an inversion because the general rule of thumb is that you lose 5 degrees for every 1000 feet in altitude you climb (generally but not always useless knowledge you acquire when getting your pilot's license). When you have an inversion layer, it gets warmer the higher you go until you break through the layer at least. You are going to more likely find these inversion layers around bodies of water or valleys.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Well for one the planet is skinnier at the poles. The north pole, at least, also doesn't have a lot of high terrain. For another, I am not sure your physical fact is exactly right. Cold fronts often are the result of cold air overtaking warmer air. It pushes the warm air naturally up and moves in underneath. This is often referred to as an inversion because the general rule of thumb is that you lose 5 degrees for every 1000 feet in altitude you climb (generally but not always useless knowledge you acquire when getting your pilot's license). When you have an inversion layer, it gets warmer the higher you go until you break through the layer at least. You are going to more likely find these inversion layers around bodies of water or valleys.

Thanks. So from a pilot's perspective, not a physicist's.

 

[Dekster]

Thanks. So from a pilot's perspective, not a physicist's.

Weather and Meteorology was one of those required courses they invented to make it a proper respectable degree program not attached to another discipline (was originally paired with business classes). I did it for a couple years and then switched majors and universities before I got to the ATP and certified flight instructor end of the program. Got too expensive, too boring, and too time consuming paying a mint to fly a bunch of pointless hours to pointless places to build flight time.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Cold fronts often are the result of cold air overtaking warmer air. It pushes the warm air naturally up and moves in underneath. This is often referred to as an inversion because the general rule of thumb is that you lose 5 degrees for every 1000 feet in altitude you climb

Colder air is generally heavier due to being more dense. I'd agree that calling what happens naturally "an inversion" is dumb. As you go higher the air inevitably gets so thin that it can no longer retain significant heat. After finally giving up whatever it's got, it wall fall back toward Earth due to gravity.. "you lose 5 degrees for every 1000 feet in altitude" because the air becomes increasingly thin, so unable to retain as much heat.

 

[Dekster]

Colder air is generally heavier due to being more dense. I'd agree that calling what happens naturally "an inversion" is dumb. As you go higher the air inevitably gets so thin that it can no longer retain significant heat. After finally giving up whatever it's got, it wall fall back toward Earth due to gravity.

Well I am not the one who named it. I just had to circle the letter beside the correct answer.

 

[Grumblenuts]

As did we all. Le

 

[Grumblenuts]

High-pressure area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ReinyDays]

Weather and Meteorology was one of those required courses they invented to make it a proper respectable degree program not attached to another discipline (was originally paired with business classes). I did it for a couple years and then switched majors and universities before I got to the ATP and certified flight instructor end of the program. Got too expensive, too boring, and too time consuming paying a mint to fly a bunch of pointless hours to pointless places to build flight time.

Doesn't sound like you took an actual meteorology course ... what you took was ground school ... pilots aren't required to solve triple integrals while flying ... thus two years of college calculus isn't a requirement to get a pilot's license ...

Why is there a cusp in the pseudo-adiabatic lapse rate? ... every pilot should know this ... or you're not safe in the air ...

Do you think Coriolis force causes cyclonic motion? ... and why? ... honest question, I don't know the answer, maybe you do ...

 

[Dekster]

Doesn't sound like you took an actual meteorology course ... what you took was ground school ... pilots aren't required to solve triple integrals while flying ... thus two years of college calculus isn't a requirement to get a pilot's license ...

Why is there a cusp in the pseudo-adiabatic lapse rate? ... every pilot should know this ... or you're not safe in the air ...

Do you think Coriolis force causes cyclonic motion? ... and why? ... honest question, I don't know the answer, maybe you do ...

Since the class was called Weather and Meteorology at least half of it was, in fact, meteorology. Ground schools were completely different. They were to prep you for the test. The Coriolis effect causes cyclones in the northern hemisphere to rotate counter clockwise. Other than that, the cyclones themselves are caused by pressure differentials. They are low pressures areas that pull in air from high pressure areas.

 

[ReinyDays]

Thanks, I suppose, for that meteorological science recap. But what I'm really looking for are explanations that stress and remain consistent with the physical fact that hot always naturally goes toward cold, never the reverse.

Example substitute: Because the Sun spends less time heating the pole when it's tilting away, the pole ends up releasing relatively more of its heat to space than it would otherwise. How do you see a "cyclone of cold air" starting to begin with at the poles? What makes the air want to spin around so vigorously there? How much of it can one logically attribute it to the Coriolis effect? How do atmospheric differences in "pressure" cause such axial circulation?

You may be using "hot" and "cold" incorrectly ... these are comparators, and a matter of opinion ... something to be avoided in science ... the Inuit will tell you 50º is hot, the Columbian will say cold ... who do we believe ...

I think you're reading far too much into the idle speculations of some TV beat reporter with nothing better to do ... the polar vortex may or may not have and effect on tropospheric weather ... we don't know ... we're in the stratosphere here, only 18% of the mass of the atmosphere ... so to compare, swirl the very top layer of a glass of water with your fingertip ... how much does this effect the bottom? ...

The rest of your questions require competence understanding what an "inerial frame-of-reference" is ... do you remember us taking our kids to the Indiana State Fair last summer? ... and the rock fight on the merry-go-round? ... all them witnesses on the ground saying the rock traveled a straight line into the little girl's face, though the kids swore the rock curved through the air as if by magic? ... I think we would have won that lawsuit except for the boys laughing so hard during the trial ... "frame-of-reference" ...

The answer is convective force (cross-product) pressure force equals torque ... an instant later, things explode ...

 

[Grumblenuts]

Do you think Coriolis force causes cyclonic motion? ... and why?

I do to some extent, but not so much at the poles. Here National Geographic supplies an alleged 4th grade explanation of the "Effect":

The Coriolis Effect: Earth's Rotation and Its Effect on Weather

The Coriolis effect describes the pattern of deflection taken by objects not firmly connected to the ground as they travel long distances around the Earth.

www.nationalgeographic.org

I don't think that really explains much of anything. Right off the bat:

Imagine you have superhuman strength. You are standing at the Equator, which is the imaginary line around the middle of Earth. You want to throw a ball to a friend, who is standing somewhere in North America. What's going to happen?

If you try throwing the ball straight to your friend, things won't go as planned. The ball will land slightly to your friend's right. The reason for this is the Coriolis effect.

If you were really standing at the Equator, your friend in North America would be well over the horizon, out of sight. If you fired the ball straight at his GPS location, it would hit the ground between. Add gravity and you'd have to fire it significantly upward so that it would arc over the Earth between and come back down on the second half of its flight. Seems to me you'd have to fire it to the left as well, but the merry-go-round analogy doesn't seem very helpful (nor analogous). One should first presume two reasons for why the atmosphere spins at all along with the Earth. First due to its frictional contact with the surface (and none with space), and secondly, inertia.

I think your references to "cross product" and inertia are getting somewhere, but these alleged orthogonal forces need more fleshing out. I can picture an inertial gradient existing between the Earth's surface and space. In other words, the Earth drags the lower atmosphere along while the upper atmosphere coasts and eventually slows down to nothing where it meets space, even though space can exert no frictional drag upon it.

So as cooling, wetter air gains in density it falls due to gravity, but also gains inertia causing it to experience more drag due to the Earth's surface friction. The reverse occurs on the upward leg of its vertical convective journey with the same sideways result.