It's the Ocean not the Atmosphere, dummy!

[ding]

Okay, two questions: 1) Where has it been hiding up till 60 years ago and 2) What brought it out of hiding?

Are you seriously suggesting there was no heat before 1960 or that the temperature of the ocean was static before 1960? The ocean has been warming since the last glacial maximum. How can you not know this?

1. When heat is circulated from the Atlantic to the Arctic the ocean warms because the Arctic is in deglaciation.
2. When heat circulation from the Atlantic to the Arctic gets disrupted the ocean and ultimately the planet cools because the northern hemisphere is in glaciation.

These are the two modes of climate ever since the planet entered an ice age (i.e. bipolar glaciation) 3 to 5 million years ago. The southern pole stays glaciated. The northern pole cycles between glaciated and deglaciated. These cycles are what control the temperature of the planet's ocean and atmosphere.

In glacial periods the climate naturally fluctuates. In interglacial periods the climate naturally fluctuates. You ignore these fluctuations and erroneously attribute all warming fluctuations after the industrial revolution to CO2. That just isn't the case and natural temperature fluctuations will eventually prove you wrong.

 

[Crick]

Are you seriously suggesting there was no heat before 1960 or that the temperature of the ocean was static before 1960? The ocean has been warming since the last glacial maximum. How can you not know this?

1. When heat is circulated from the Atlantic to the Arctic the ocean warms because the Arctic is in deglaciation.
2. When heat circulation from the Atlantic to the Arctic gets disrupted the ocean and ultimately the planet cools because the northern hemisphere is in glaciation.

These are the two modes of climate ever since the planet entered an ice age (i.e. bipolar glaciation) 3 to 5 million years ago. The southern pole stays glaciated. The northern pole cycles between glaciated and deglaciated. These cycles are what control the temperature of the planet's ocean and atmosphere.

In glacial periods the climate naturally fluctuates. In interglacial periods the climate naturally fluctuates. You ignore these fluctuations and erroneously attribute all warming fluctuations after the industrial revolution to CO2. That just isn't the case and natural temperature fluctuations will eventually prove you wrong.

For temperature to change, the net sum of energy in and energy out must CHANGE. The only thing that has changed has been CO2 and greenhouse warming. In all your posts, you've yet to identify anything that has changed which could possibly have accomplished what we have all seen.

 

[ding]

For temperature to change, the net sum of energy in and energy out must CHANGE.

Yes and when the NH glaciates the planet cools and when the NH deglaciates the planet warms. It's pretty hard to argue against this as it's been going on for 3 million years. CO2 has been a response to those changes and not the driver of those changes. There are 3 million years of empirical climate evidence from the geologic record for this.

What changes is how the ocean distributes heat. When heat is transferred from the Atlantic to the Arctic the planet warms (NH deglaciates). When heat transfer from the Atlantic to the Arctic is disrupted the planet cools (NH glaciates).

 

[ding]

The only thing that has changed has been CO2 and greenhouse warming.

Incorrect. Ocean currents change. There is empirical evidence for this. There is no mechanism for CO2 leading temperature prior to the industrial revolution and there is no empirical evidence for CO2 leading temperature prior to the industrial revolution. There is however a mechanism and empirical evidence for temperature leading CO2 prior to the industrial revolution.

 

[ding]

In all your posts, you've yet to identify anything that has changed which could possibly have accomplished what we have all seen.

Incorrect. Thermohaline circulation. And I have been posting about it extensively.

 

[Crick]

Incorrect. Thermohaline circulation. And I have been posting about it extensively.

What changes have taken place in thermohaline circulation beginning about 1850 and accelerating till today? And please explain how those changes have caused the globe's temperature to increase. Melting ice in the Arctic did not warm the planet. It was the warming planet that melted the ice.

 

[ding]

What changes have taken place in thermohaline circulation beginning about 1850 and accelerating till today? And please explain how those changes have caused the globe's temperature to increase. Melting ice in the Arctic did not warm the planet. It was the warming planet that melted the ice.

What changes do you suppose occurred during any other warming or cooling trend which the geologic record is littered with?

The warming trend you are talking about started 400 years ago BTW.

 

[Crick]

What changes do you suppose occurred during any other warming or cooling trend which the geologic record is littered with?

The warming trend you are talking about started 400 years ago BTW.

Stop your fucking dodging and answer the question or admit that you cannot.

 

[ding]

Stop your fucking dodging and answer the question or admit that you cannot.

My answer is that climate fluctuations occur all the time... NATURALLY. It's an artifact of a bipolar glaciated world where each pole have different glaciation temperature thresholds and one of them is close to their threshold.

You cannot attribute any more associated temperature from a GHG than it's theoretical value from simple physics. For CO2 that is 1C per doubling of CO2.

 

[ding]

Stop your fucking dodging and answer the question or admit that you cannot.

Whether you realize it or not, your argument presumes the only change that can cause climate fluctuations is CO2.

That's a ridiculous position. How do you justify that?

Look at all these fluctuations in interglacial periods.

 

[Crick]

Whether you realize it or not, your argument presumes the only change that can cause climate fluctuations is CO2.

That's a ridiculous position. How do you justify that?

View attachment 989487

Look at all these fluctuations in interglacial periods.

My argument makes no such presumption. Should I presume instead that you are lying or that you are really stupid?

 

[ding]

My argument makes no such presumption. Should I presume instead that you are lying or that you are really stupid?

Of course it does. That's why you demand to know what has changed to cause the warming trend that began 400 years ago.

Ocean currents, dummy.

 

[Crick]

Of course it does. That's why you demand to know what has changed to cause the warming trend that began 400 years ago.

Ocean currents, dummy.

And what caused the ocean currents to change, dummy?

 

[ding]

And what caused the ocean currents to change, dummy?

Do I really need to link to one of your posts on thermohaline circulation? Or do you want to play dumb for a few more posts?

Or I could link to an exchange between us when you played dumb about thermohaline circulation and then link to one of your posts on thermohaline circulation.

 

[Crick]

Do I really need to link to one of your posts on thermohaline circulation? Or do you want to play dumb for a few more posts?

Or I could link to an exchange between us when you played dumb about thermohaline circulation and then link to one of your posts on thermohaline circulation.

You have never provided an answer, in your own words or in a link, because there has been no change in ocean currents that could have caused the observed warming.

 

[ding]

You have never provided an answer, in your own words or in a link, because there has been no change in ocean currents that could have caused the observed warming.

Are you disputing that ocean currents create climate? Are you disputing that changes to ocean currents produce changes in climate?

 

[sparky]

Why have none of you talked about factors leading to ocean changes ?

Because we're told what to think 'Lu

Do you have any idea what an outbreak of critical thinking would do here, hands down national emergency.....dogs and cats living together........

~S~

 

[ding]

Why have none of you talked about factors leading to ocean changes ?
Example , the varying electro magnetic Sun fields and how they then influence / interact with Earths own ?
The sun's changing sun spot cycles and resultant CMEs which are responsible for the amount of energy reaching the centre of our planet with eventual eruption consequences ?
Ditto the galactic centre .

Because differences in density and landmass distribution (especially in the northern hemisphere) is what affects ocean currents.

 

[Crick]

Because differences in density and landmass distribution (especially in the northern hemisphere) is what affects ocean currents.

What do you mean "differences in density"?

 

[Crick]

Are you disputing that ocean currents create climate? Are you disputing that changes to ocean currents produce changes in climate?

I am saying

You have never provided an answer, in your own words or in a link, because there has been no change in ocean currents that could have caused the observed warming.