Perhaps another GREAT JOB Trump - apparently on the phone with Putin, and an hour later they had a cease fire agreement.

[Correll]

What is the cost of a life? What is the benefit of independence?

Good questions. That you refuse to even come close to discussing.

I know no such thing.

Sure you do. YOu know that you cannot defend your position honestly, so you shit talk constantly to avoid it.

I want what the Ukrainians want. It is you who can't accept that they are adults that know what they want and are willing to pay the costs.

It is you that refuses to discuss what YOU want and what cost YOU are willing to pay.

That is the point. That I have made many times. That all you libs are playing dumb, to avoid addressing.

I'm still here, waiting on that 'serious' discussion. You declaring I'm immoral is an opinion, not really a serious discussion.

Your refusal to discuss what you want, or hte price you are willing to pay, is you refusing to have a serious discussion.


EVERYTHING else is just you shit talking.

 

[alang1216]

Good questions. That you refuse to even come close to discussing.

Sure you do. YOu know that you cannot defend your position honestly, so you shit talk constantly to avoid it.

It is you that refuses to discuss what YOU want and what cost YOU are willing to pay.

That is the point. That I have made many times. That all you libs are playing dumb, to avoid addressing.

Your refusal to discuss what you want, or hte price you are willing to pay, is you refusing to have a serious discussion.

EVERYTHING else is just you shit talking.

Very impressive post! You complain that I won't have a serious discussing while you write an entire post that says nothing serious beyond whining about others. If you've said anything serious I must have missed it.

 

[Correll]

Very impressive post! You complain that I won't have a serious discussing while you write an entire post that says nothing serious beyond whining about others. If you've said anything serious I must have missed it.

Your shit talk is dismissed.

The crux of the matter is that the left refuses to discuss what they want from this war or how much they are wiling to pay for it. IN human lives.

 

[alang1216]

Your shit talk is dismissed.

The crux of the matter is that the left refuses to discuss what they want from this war or how much they are wiling to pay for it. IN human lives.

You keep repeating that but offer no serious discussion of your own. You have to give something to get something.

 

[Correll]

You keep repeating that but offer no serious discussion of your own. You have to give something to get something.

And more shit talk.

YOu got a question for me, ask it. I've answered all the stupid questions that leftards have asked. And been happy to address all the retarded shit that they assert.

And none of it matters, becasue they refuse to discuss the crux of the matter, ie what is it that they want, and how much are they willing to spend to get it.

 

[alang1216]

And more shit talk.

YOu got a question for me, ask it. I've answered all the stupid questions that leftards have asked. And been happy to address all the retarded shit that they assert.

And none of it matters, becasue they refuse to discuss the crux of the matter, ie what is it that they want, and how much are they willing to spend to get it.

OK. Tell us your exit strategy.

 

[Correll]

OK. Tell us your exit strategy.

Cut a deal, that both sides can live with, and exit.

 

[alang1216]

Cut a deal, that both sides can live with, and exit.

The devils in the details. Exactly what kind of deal do you envision? What do Ukraine and Russia have to give up?

 

[Correll]

The devils in the details. Exactly what kind of deal do you envision? What do Ukraine and Russia have to give up?

Certainly the details are very, very , very important.

IMO, Ukraine will have to give up any hope of getting lands Russia holds, back.


Russia will have to give up any hope of taking all of ukraine.


That is the primary core of any aggreement.

 

[Kruska]

First of all, Poland, allied with Germany, attacked Czechoslovakia, ally of the Soviet Union in 1938 and that was equal to attack against Russia itself. Second - Russia actually come to aid the parts of former Poland that could be saved - Western Ukraine and Western Belarus. Third - the root of evil, which actually caused WWII was deliberate destruction of the European system of collective defense by Britain. They didn't want equal safety for everyone. They wanted to destroy France and Russia by German hands.

Poland was NEVER allied with Nazi-Germany - they simply took advantage of Hitler annexing and occupying Sudetenland.
Since they had an open issue with Czechoslovakia dating back to the 20'ies.

 

[Kruska]

IMO, Ukraine will have to give up any hope of getting lands Russia holds, back.

Why?

Russia will have to give up any hope of taking all of ukraine.

Why?

That is the primary core of any aggreement.

That is "why" a "realistic" agreement will never happen - since both sides are buying time and assurances to their own benefit.

 

[Correll]

Why?

Because they have no realistic chance of getting it back.

Why?

Because they can't afford the loss of men and material that it would take to do that.

That is "why" a "realistic" agreement will never happen - since both sides are buying time and assurances to their own benefit.

My god that is an insanely ignorant thing to say. That is why such an agreement is completely realistic.

Because both sides CAN get what they need to benefit themselves.

ANd it is not a matter of "ASSURANCES".

If Russia is dumb enough to try again in 4 years, the same shit will happen, they will run into a buzzsaw and lose men and money massively that they cannot afford.


If Ukraine is dumb enough to attack russia to try to take back those lands, they will fail, even if they managed to get Europe to support them.



Notice how when you ask me questions, I don't play retarded games like pivoting to what the ukrainians want, or playing stupid to avoid answering your questions.

I just answer them. Seriously and honestly.


NONE of you lefties have been able to do that with me.

 

[Kruska]

Because they have no realistic chance of getting it back.

Say's who - YOU?

Because they can't afford the loss of men and material that it would take to do that.

Say's who - YOU?

If Russia is dumb enough to try again in 4 years, the same shit will happen, they will run into a buzzsaw and lose men and money massively that they cannot afford.

Who say's that Russia would take 4 years to attack again? - YOU?

If Ukraine is dumb enough to attack russia to try to take back those lands, they will fail, even if they managed to get Europe to support them.

Say's who? - YOU?

NONE of you lefties have been able to do that with me.

YOU have been proven WRONG so far all the way (see above) - incl. by those YOU consider to be Lefties.

For the sake of fairness, and thus you digging yourself endless into unfounded and baseless assumptions - I am a former Staff-Officer of the Bundeswehr and am professionally involved with NATO and other Armed Forces till today.

 

[Correll]

Say's who - YOU?

Yes. Based on their complete failure to do so, and the meatgrinder that the fighting has turned into.

Say's who - YOU?

Yes. Based on their inability to even stop the russiasn from taking a signficant portion of their country and still being unable to turn the tide, despite MASSIVE support and high tech weapons from the west.

Who say's that Russia would take 4 years to attack again? - YOU?

No. In reality, they could make a pathetically weak attack in a matter of hours, if they wanted. It would be a disaster and accomoplish nothing but they COULD.

Sooooo.....what does that do for your argument or the point you are supposedly trying to make?

Say's who? - YOU?

Yes, me and anyone with any sense.

YOU have been proven WRONG so far all the way (see above) - incl. by those YOU consider to be Lefties.

Dude. Stupid shit talk, is all you lefties have.

Now, I will ask you some questions and you will run away from them like a little girl.


1. What do YOu want from this war?


2. How many ukrainian lives are you willing to spend to get it?

 

[alang1216]

Certainly the details are very, very , very important.

IMO, Ukraine will have to give up any hope of getting lands Russia holds, back.


Russia will have to give up any hope of taking all of ukraine.


That is the primary core of any aggreement.

So Russia wins and Ukraine loses. What is to prevent Russia from taking the rest of Ukraine in a year or two?

 

[Kruska]

Yes. Based on their complete failure to do so, and the meatgrinder that the fighting has turned into.

Nonsense - they kicked out the Russians of almost 80% of the areas that the Russians had occupied till March. 2022. And even managed to intrude onto Kursk. (as such preventing further larger gains by Russia in the South and East).

Yes. Based on their inability to even stop the russiasn from taking a signficant portion of their country and still being unable to turn the tide, despite MASSIVE support and high tech weapons from the west.

If the Ukrainians "would" have received that "massive" support - which was never given, Russia would be fighting on the Crimean peninsula by now.
Russia lost more then 4000 MBT's and around 10,000+ AFV/APC - how many did Ukraine receive from NATO???
How many did Ukraine have/receive till e.g. March 2023? or March 2024, or now in March 2025???

No. In reality, they could make a pathetically weak attack in a matter of hours, if they wanted. It would be a disaster and accomoplish nothing but they COULD.

With Trump now on their side - they got nothing to fear. Unless Trump doesn't get his business "Deals" with Putin and might then very well turn on him. - as he usually does. And Putin ain't dumb. - so why should Putin attack in a matter of hours??

Dude. Stupid shit talk, is all you lefties have.

The only one that talks "shit" is YOU

Now, I will ask you some questions and you will run away from them like a little girl.

You are an idiot - since I will answer your silly questions - so much for ^^^ another dumb claim of yours.

1. What do YOu want from this war?

Ukraine stay's neutral - as they should have from the very beginning.
Russia has to pull out from ALL occupied Ukrainian territories as of before 2014.
Free election to be held under UN supervision in about 2-3 years time, in ALL Russian occupied territories.
That will be till then, under UN control and administration.

2. How many ukrainian lives are you willing to spend to get it?

Depends solely on Russia and as such onto the Ukrainian people aka their government.

 

[Correll]

So Russia wins and Ukraine loses.

NOt sure I would call that a win. They lost a lot of men and wrecked their military. FOr what? A couple of provinces?

What is to prevent Russia from taking the rest of Ukraine in a year or two?

Oh, the fact that they couldn't do it before when they were stronger and less wrecked.

 

[Correll]

Nonsense - they kicked out the Russians of almost 80% of the areas that the Russians had occupied till March. 2022. And even managed to intrude onto Kursk. (as such preventing further larger gains by Russia in the South and East).

First I've heard this claim. LInk?

If the Ukrainians "would" have received that "massive" support - which was never given, Russia would be fighting on the Crimean peninsula by now.

Shit talk. they had massive support. THey failed to turn the tide. That is the reality of the situation.

With Trump now on their side - they got nothing to fear. Unless Trump doesn't get his business "Deals" with Putin and might then very well turn on him. - as he usually does. And Putin ain't dumb. - so why should Putin attack in a matter of hours??

Nonsensical shit talk is dismissed.

The only one that talks "shit" is YOU

You are an idiot - since I will answer your silly questions - so much for ^^^ another dumb claim of yours.

Ukraine stay's neutral - as they should have from the very beginning.
Russia has to pull out from ALL occupied Ukrainian territories as of before 2014.
Free election to be held under UN supervision in about 2-3 years time, in ALL Russian occupied territories.
That will be till then, under UN control and administration.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. So, what you really want is a very, very long war.

Depends solely on Russia and as such onto the Ukrainian people aka their government.

And you refuse to answer. As I predicted.

 

[alang1216]

NOt sure I would call that a win. They lost a lot of men and wrecked their military. FOr what? A couple of provinces?

It was what they wanted from the beginning. Crimea is very important strategically and other provinces have valuable mineral wealth.

Oh, the fact that they couldn't do it before when they were stronger and less wrecked.

If at first you don't succeed... Putin got a black eye that he needs to avenge to stay in power so he can rebuild. Without security guarantees any treaty would be a temporary cease fire. Of course, if Ukraine can rebuild they may want to take back their lost territory.

 

[Kruska]

First I've heard this claim. LInk?

Link? YOU need a link for that? then WTF are you doing on this thread??
Checkout any front-line map regarding March 2022 and now. YOURSELF

Shit talk. they had massive support. THey failed to turn the tide. That is the reality of the situation.

YOU talk - shit, I had asked you as to how many MBT's and AFV's/APC's - Ukraine has received.
I AM WAITING.

Nonsensical shit talk is dismissed.

Only nonsensical to a dimwit like YOU - ask any of those Putin supporters or pro-Russian folks on USMB.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. So, what you really want is a very, very long war.

Don't place words into peoples mouth, once you lose onto your silly arguments
It's not up to me - nor up to you - this ain't some game called RISK or one of your shooter games.

Therefore it's solely up to Russia - and Ukraine in regards to "factual" support by the EU and maybe by the USA.

And you refuse to answer. As I predicted.

Where did I refuse to answer? - you LIAR

Continue with your infantile, childish and totally unsubstantiated claims/arguments, and YOU can discuss with yourself or with those, who appreciate your kiddo and amateur style.

I EXPECT links from YOU - that would support your idiotic and unsubstantiated claims - and then I will present you with MY substantiated posts and links. That's how a decent discussion runs - I am NOT interested in your blah, blah. or personal assumptions. The way you talk/write and thus present yourself - you never served a single day in any Armed Forces.

Armchair general and PC player - that's all you are.

So now - I AM WAITING for substantiated posts of yours - or just get lost. Since YOU obviously got no clue as to what you babble about.