Higher moral ground is at Russia's side, of course.
Actually, no. Even if it happens (which is highly unlikely), the only result might be Russian nuclear attack on the USA. And it definitely won't benefit the USA.
Perhaps another GREAT JOB Trump - apparently on the phone with Putin, and an hour later they had a cease fire agreement.
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So, all those times I asked you what you wanted, you refused to answer, but you could have just said that.
HOw strange.
Ok, so we now see what it is that you want out of the war.
Question. Is it worth the lives of ukrainians that are dying to get it?
I believe that he simply doesn't care about lives of Ukrainians (or Americans, for that matter). He just wants (or pretend to wants) to kill some random Russians. It's an ideology of hatred, and the hatred is devastating and suicidal.
Maybe.
It is hard to tell, because they refuse to engage seriously or honestly on anything.
Some of them, especially the hard core marxist types, I get the feeling do hate the russians for giving up on communism.
IMO, there is more motivated by PARTISAN POLITICS, where their foreign policy is just dictiated by how useful it is in DOMESTIC PARTISAN POLITICS, without any real thoughts of the military or national security issues.
But, I am open moving forward to your idea.
At the very least it is clear that they give ZERO consideration to the lives of those invovled. They are utterly without...normal human... empathy.
As Lenin said - "Let's transform the Imperialistic war into Civil war" (and take the power).
Or as, say, in the "Friendtopia" music video from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend series, where the girls are enjoying their coup during Russian nuclear strike (without US retaliation)?
Yes. I would rather say that they live in a universe of cardboard cutouts, of human-shaped things provided solely for their use. They have no sense of them as people who might resent them - or, indeed, who have any right to resent them- and they are too busy doing things to them to even consider what they might do to them if they got the chance.
It is a blind spot they can't even recognize, much less cure, despite the outcome of their stupid vendetta against each other, and that same sublime arrogance blind them to the danger in gambling with the national security. Some call it "Rationality of Irrationality". I call it "Self-destructive behaviour".
Don't Russians consider many of their neighbors to be in their sphere of influence? As I recall, Mussolini came from a poor and insignificant country.
Sorry, not buying it. Did the neo-Nazis elect a Jewish president? I think the Wagner group is an excellent example of murderous gangsters.
Agreed. Thankfully none of US territory is being occupied and none of our children have been kidnapped so far.
Agreed. How many American journalists are on the Russian payroll?
Agreed but Trump goes out of his way to stay on good terms with Russia. Many here believe it is too far, e.g., the recent UN vote.
There won't be any US troops involved, the collapse would be a strictly internal Russian affair.
Our demands are pretty modest and reasonable, I believe. Our neighbours should not kill us, or sponsor our kill, or making significant preparations to kill us, or discriminate Russian people. It as far from the term "hegemony" as it can be for a nation willing to survive.
And no, don't you consider as your "sphere of influence" the whole world?
Yep. The question of definitions. You define "Nazies" as "anti-Jewish guys". We define Nazies as "anti-Russian guys".
They are not "gangsters", they are "mercenaries". Of course they kill people, that what the soldiers do.
Really? And how many of your children are poisoned? And no, everything is ahead.
I dunno. Definitely much lesser than on the American payroll. Definitely lesser than 1% of them.
Votes, as well as talks are cheap. Talking about real actions, he can basically do only two things - escalate or de-escalate. Highly likely he will escalate. And then - all American people will pay for this fatal mistake. In the best for you case - you'll lose Alaska and California. In the worst - you'll lose 90% of your population in the first year of the war, and, likely extinct in the few year after it.
You expect me to decide for the Ukrainians what they value?
I don't want to see any more killing, of anyone, but I see Russia as an aggressor, not unlike Nazi Germany. Russia attacked Ukraine very much like Hitler attacked Poland, it was not the other way around. If Russia had successfully come to the aid of Poland instead of carving it up, how many Russian, Polish, and German lives would have been saved?
Ukraine has never been an existential threat to Russia. As far as discriminating against Russian people in Ukraine, you said the Serbs were justified in their killings.
We do, and that has been a mixed blessing for us and for the whole world.
You define pro-Ukrainians as Nazis.
Who has been poisoned? You're not referring to Chernobyl I trust.
You're delusional. The first casualty of a nuclear exchange would be the Russian gov't so there will be no such exchange.
Yep. You hire them - you value them.
It was the other way around. You hired them to kill some Russians, and Russians just fight back
First of all, Poland, allied with Germany, attacked Czechoslovakia, ally of the Soviet Union in 1938 and that was equal to attack against Russia itself. Second - Russia actually come to aid the parts of former Poland that could be saved - Western Ukraine and Western Belarus. Third - the root of evil, which actually caused WWII was deliberate destruction of the European system of collective defense by Britain. They didn't want equal safety for everyone. They wanted to destroy France and Russia by German hands.
I believe we did no such thing. It was (and is) in US interests to have a independent and democratic Ukraine. Dead Russians does us no good.
A complicated time and no good guys that I see. Secret pacts, newly minted countries with multiple, antagonistic ethnicities, nationalism, and economic depression all made for a tinker box.
I thought it was you, who said that your goal is "bleeding Russian"?
And no, I can't be sure, of course, but it seems to me, that banning people from speaking their own language, closing all independent medias, mass murders of opposition, persecution of the most popular Church, banning free leaving the country, and so on, doesn't really fit American understanding of "democracy", and selling out both political and economic freedom can't be called "independence" (in any meaningful way).
Same as now. Pre-war time. Britain destroyed post-WWI world order, as America destroyed post-WWII world order.
Either we create satisfactory and acceptable system of the world's safety, or we have to fight.
I think I said "bleeding Russia", not the same thing. I was referring to Russian military equipment, infrastructure, and economy.
I wasn't aware of these excesses. Can you point me to a trustworthy source of this info?
I think you meant: Britain destroyed pre-WWI world order, as America destroyed pre-WWII world order.
I bet these past 75 years have been the longest time of peace in Western Europe ever. It is hard to imagine France and Germany going to war anytime soon. If Russia wants security they have to also accept peace and I don't think they are ready to do that.
Poor excuse. Blood is blood. Not oil, not iron. It's human blood.
It's not "exesses". It's targeted policy of discrimination and genocide. Just read anything about Ukraine.
No. Britain in 1936-1938 destroyed post-WWI world order and changed it to pre-WWII world order. The United States in 1999-2007 destroyed post-WWII world order and changed it to pre-WWIII.
You are wrong. Peace of Westphalia (1648 - 1756) and Peace of Vienna - (1815 -1914) were longer.
It's just poor imagination and bad information about actual French military plans.
Of course Russians are not ready to be genocided by Ukrainian militants or attacked by NATO. There is no safety in the appeasement of evil. And the USA are not ready neither to be a responsible world's leader, nor to leave Eastern Europe. That's why I believe large-scale war is inevitable. May be, we are already in it, and future historians will mark it is the "initial stage of WWIII, so-called Phoney war".
And there you did it again.
You lefties, UNIVERSIALLY, refuse to discuss the cost/benefit of your Ukraine policy.
YOu know that your position is immoral and indefensible.
Thus you hide behind the moral high ground of hte UKRAINIANS, to avoid discussing what YOU want, or the cost of YOUR policy.
YOu know that you are in the wrong on this policy. THat is why you run and hide when any hint of serious discussion is raised.
Language disconnect. I don't wish to see anyone bleed but every tank Ukraine destroys is one less Russia could use against another country. If Russians die in that tank, it is sad but they should have remained in Russia.
The Allies defeated the Austro-Hungarian Empire so changes were inevitable. I doubt they anticipated WWII. The USSR imploded due to inefficiency and corruption, not the US.
From 1650 to 1750, Europe saw a period of significant warfare
Here's a more detailed look at some key conflicts:
- War of the Spanish Succession (1701-1714):
This war erupted after the death of the childless Charles II of Spain, leading to a struggle for control of the Spanish Empire between the French Bourbons and the Austrian Habsburgs.
- Great Northern War (1700-1721):
This conflict, primarily in Eastern Europe, involved Russia, Sweden, Denmark, and other powers, with Russia ultimately emerging as a major power.
- War of the Austrian Succession (1740-1748):
This war stemmed from the succession of Maria Theresa to the Austrian throne, with various powers vying for control and influence in Central Europe.
Other notable conflicts:
Russo-Polish War (1654-1667):Anglo-Dutch Wars (1652-1674):Franco-Dutch War (1672-1678):Nine Years' War (1688-1697):War of Devolution (1667-1668):Scanian War (1675-1679):Great Turkish War (1683-1699):
Everything that doesn't kill me, make me stronger. Every old and obsolete tank destroyed in battle makes the new generation of tanks better.
Anyway, you payed Ukrainian Nazies to discriminate, abuse and kill Russians. You are partly responsible for their crimes, and you are going to pay for their crimes.
I wish I could say the same about feeling sorry for all those young Americans dying from fentanyl overdose or being killed by illegal aliens or about millions of them who are going to die pretty soon scorched by the nuclear bursts. But you deserved it.
Its not about destruction of Austro-Hungarian Empire at the end of WWI. It was about destruction of the collective security system.
Everybody knew, that it wasn't a peace, just "twenty year long ceasefire".
I didn't say about reforms at the post-soviet territory. I said about NATO expansion and illegal aggressions.
Those were more of "peripheral wars", rather local conflicts than central war for the very survival. Great Powers have been fighting by the rules (established at the end of the previous Central War) for the limited, thorough important goals. Something like Vietnam War, or Hungarian conflict, or pacification of Czechoslovakia, or the "Cog wars" between Iceland and GB, or anti-guerilla warfare in Greece, Spain or Ireland.
At least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that the end of the US and Russia will make you happy.
What is the cost of a life? What is the benefit of independence?
I know no such thing.
I want what the Ukrainians want. It is you who can't accept that they are adults that know what they want and are willing to pay the costs.
I'm still here, waiting on that 'serious' discussion. You declaring I'm immoral is an opinion, not really a serious discussion.
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