Pentagon says that we would lose a war with China by 2030.

[Mac-7]

but if we shut down wal mart the majority of chinese would starve to death within ayear

I dont want to punish walmart for the sins of globalist swamp rats in washington dc

But you are right it would hurt china

 

[JoeB131]

One of the things Japan could not do was train pilots. Even when they could manufacture planes, the pilots were ill or untrained. The last wave, the Kamikaze pilots could barely fly straight and level. They would often report Destroyers as Battleships.

By contrast some of the pilots who survived Midway and Coral Sea were Rotated back to teach the hard won lessons to the next generation of Pilots. The vets of Guadalcanal did the same. They told the new pilots about how to survive and win in air combat.

Now most of our electronics are made in China. And that gives them an advantage.

Tiny Chinese Microchips Reportedly Found Hidden in Amazon, Apple Servers

The jaw-dropping report is disputed by some of the supposed victims.

www.popularmechanics.com

I wonder if a war starts and all our planes with all their high tech awesomeness will just sit on the ground and refuse to start?

It's probably not a good idea to compare a war in 1941-45 to one today. If we fought a war with China today, it would be over in weeks, not years.

The first question is, "What are we fighting them over?"

Moving into Hong Kong? None of our business. Hong Kong is legally China's property.

The shitty little Islands of the South China Sea. Yeah, try explaining to an American Mom that's why her son is coming home in a box or in a ship at the bottom of the sea.

Invading Taiwan? Well, from a legal stance, they kind of have the right to invade Taiwan. Taiwan is historically part of China. Taiwan doesn't pretend to be independent, it claims it's the legitimate government of China since Cash-my-Check got run out 72 years ago.

If they haven't moved in 72 years, they aren't going to now.

Second problem is, Taiwan does a lot of investment in the mainland. As much as they hate each other, they are economically interdependent. Neither side would gain more than they would lose in a war .

Now, if China were to move against our allies in Japan or the Philippines, THEN you might have an argument. But again, China is economically dependent on Japan and for the Philippines, what do they have that anyone would want? The country is as poor as you can get. Also, they'd be a real pain to occupy, as the Japanese, Americans and Spanish all found out.

But here's the real reason why America and China won't go to war. BUSINESS. China sells 500 Billion in goods to the US and the US sells 120 Billion a year in goods to China.

Trump's trade war (which had as much to do with causing the 2020 recession as his fumbling response to Covid) actually caused our trade deficit with China to INCREASE.

Now, the historical comparison everyone uses is the Naval Arms Race between the United Kingdom and Germany in the years leading up to World War I. Except that kind of turned out to be a big dud. There was only one indecisive battle between the two big navies (Jutland) and the German Navy remained bottled up until it finally got fed up and revolted against the Kaiser.

I can't see the Chinese Navy being any more effective. They don't have the overseas ports, they are kind of easily bottled in with a limited coastline.

What we really need is to work with China to fix all the damage the Orange Shitgibbon did in our relations with them.

 

[JoeB131]

I dont want to punish walmart for the sins of globalist swamp rats in washington dc

But you are right it would hurt china

Maybe instead of blaming Walmart or Washington, we should blame ourselves. We are the ones who go to the stores and buy these goods from China because they are cheap.

 

[SavannahMann]

One of the things Japan could not do was train pilots. Even when they could manufacture planes, the pilots were ill or untrained. The last wave, the Kamikaze pilots could barely fly straight and level. They would often report Destroyers as Battleships.

By contrast some of the pilots who survived Midway and Coral Sea were Rotated back to teach the hard won lessons to the next generation of Pilots. The vets of Guadalcanal did the same. They told the new pilots about how to survive and win in air combat.

Now most of our electronics are made in China. And that gives them an advantage.

Tiny Chinese Microchips Reportedly Found Hidden in Amazon, Apple Servers

The jaw-dropping report is disputed by some of the supposed victims.

www.popularmechanics.com

I wonder if a war starts and all our planes with all their high tech awesomeness will just sit on the ground and refuse to start?

It's probably not a good idea to compare a war in 1941-45 to one today. If we fought a war with China today, it would be over in weeks, not years.

The first question is, "What are we fighting them over?"

Moving into Hong Kong? None of our business. Hong Kong is legally China's property.

The shitty little Islands of the South China Sea. Yeah, try explaining to an American Mom that's why her son is coming home in a box or in a ship at the bottom of the sea.

Invading Taiwan? Well, from a legal stance, they kind of have the right to invade Taiwan. Taiwan is historically part of China. Taiwan doesn't pretend to be independent, it claims it's the legitimate government of China since Cash-my-Check got run out 72 years ago.

If they haven't moved in 72 years, they aren't going to now.

Second problem is, Taiwan does a lot of investment in the mainland. As much as they hate each other, they are economically interdependent. Neither side would gain more than they would lose in a war .

Now, if China were to move against our allies in Japan or the Philippines, THEN you might have an argument. But again, China is economically dependent on Japan and for the Philippines, what do they have that anyone would want? The country is as poor as you can get. Also, they'd be a real pain to occupy, as the Japanese, Americans and Spanish all found out.

But here's the real reason why America and China won't go to war. BUSINESS. China sells 500 Billion in goods to the US and the US sells 120 Billion a year in goods to China.

Trump's trade war (which had as much to do with causing the 2020 recession as his fumbling response to Covid) actually caused our trade deficit with China to INCREASE.

View attachment 508348

Now, the historical comparison everyone uses is the Naval Arms Race between the United Kingdom and Germany in the years leading up to World War I. Except that kind of turned out to be a big dud. There was only one indecisive battle between the two big navies (Jutland) and the German Navy remained bottled up until it finally got fed up and revolted against the Kaiser.

I can't see the Chinese Navy being any more effective. They don't have the overseas ports, they are kind of easily bottled in with a limited coastline.

What we really need is to work with China to fix all the damage the Orange Shitgibbon did in our relations with them.

Here we are parting ways. If we stand for anything it is self determination. And Taiwan has a functioning Government that is elected by the people in a free election. Moreover we have an understanding to defend them if attacked.

Kennedy said there was no better friend and no worse enemy than the United States.

But let’s be practical instead of principled. If we don’t defend Taiwan to the utmost we have to basically serve up Asia on a platter for China.

If we don’t fight for Taiwan do we fight for Korea? Isn’t unification an internal matter?

Do we fight for any other nation?

Eventually we will decide we have to fight. And that will lead to us using Nukes. There won’t be an option to remain conventional.

 

[Dusty]

I think that is a little optimistic. I suspect that the date is actually, right now.

US would lose a war with China fought in the Pacific, sources warn

'Eye-opening' Pentagon war games have revealed the US is vulnerable to China and that an attack from the superpower would lead to the US 'suffering capital losses', sources told The Times.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Part of the problem is that the Navy, and actually the entire Military, suffers from multiple personality disorder. A decade ago it was decided that we had no more use for Frigates. Those small ships that were too small to really operate on their own and were not large enough to project force from the sea inland at all. So all the Frigates were decommissioned. Those little ships are valuable escorts however. They provide a ring of defense around any task force. By getting rid of them, you denude your defensive capability dramatically. It is one less defensive ring to deal with.

The Navy recently realized the enormity of their mistake. They don’t have any Frigates on the drawing board that they can start construction with, and starting from scratch would take years to even begin. So the Navy has just announced that they will be buying Frigates from Italy.

Navy's New Frigate Will Be Based on Italian Ship With 'Officer-Quality' Staterooms

The frigate is an important part of the Navy's plan to position itself for future fights.

www.military.com

Now the We’re Awesome crowd will scream murder about the awesome F-22 and F-35’s. But what they don’t understand is that quantity is a quality all it’s own. And the quality is able to be matched. In time, surpassed. But as I tried to point out during the early days of the Syrian Misadventure, the Russians and Chinese answer is missiles. A lot of them.

People downplay the Russian answer because it is different than our own. But let’s say you can intercept twenty missiles. What do you do if the enemy shoots 21 at you? Eventually the number of missiles inbound will overwhelm and swamp your defenses. Some are going to get through if the enemy shoots enough of them at you. Then your multiple billion dollar carrier is a new addition to the Bottom of the Ocean.

The only way to do it is sink the enemy ships before they sink yours. But here again, we have a disadvantage. Even Submarines have a limited number of shots on board. And every time they fire, they let the enemy know they are there, and even the stealthiest submarine can be located if the enemy is looking hard enough, and let’s be honest, they’ll be looking awfully hard won’t they?

Quantity has a Quality all it’s own.

The Chinese army has more troops than we have ammunition. They have millions of troops, and infinite space to absorb attacks. They would be close to their lines of supply, and we would be far from ours. Our supply lines would be stretched to the breaking point in days, or a couple weeks maximum. It would take years to build the military we needed to return to the Status Quo Ante, and to defeat China? That would be virtually impossible.

Yes, we have nukes. And they have nukes, and we can turn the Chinese Cities into parking lots that glow in the dark. But what then? They’ll return the favor, turning many of our cities into similar scenes of destruction. We can’t turn the entire country of China into radioactive cinders. And even if we could we would be pariahs in the International World, alone without friends.

So what can we do? First, we can honestly admit that we are vulnerable. Before you can fix the problem, you have to identify it. Second, we can start a realistic examination of our Military from top to bottom. What do we need to do to protect our interests in the real world, instead of the easy one where we always win the war games? Third, we can start realistically examining our military technology. We are getting rid of hundreds of airplanes right now so we can afford a few more F-35’s. Yes, it may be an awesome plane, but if we have too few of them to do the job, what good is it to have a single awesome plane?

We got into this mess sacrificing old but good technology for awesome new. To save money. The Navy has no Fleet Interceptors to replace the decommissioned F-14’s. We got rid of the best Interceptor we ever had, because we could get everyone into one kind of plane, the F/A 18, and then declare it was obsolete so we could buy the F-35.

We abandoned the “unrealistic” scenario of having a Military that could fight two and a half wars. Now we have one that could not really fight even one war. Oh they can bomb the living crap out of some backwards Jihadi in the middle of the Desert. They can do that just fine, but they do not train to fight overwhelming odds, they don’t train and equip to fight enemies who are comparatively equal in training and equipment. They train to fight insurgents and religious nutters. Always with an overwhelming advantage of technology and information.

I doubt we could beat Iran in a stand up fight in all honesty. War Games have been denuded to the enemy doing exactly what you would want them to. If our ships can intercept twenty missiles, the notional enemy obligingly sends ten in the war game. If our troops are capable of fighting numerically inferior troops equipped with a hodgepodge of technology and weapons, the enemy obligingly puts underquipped and ill trained troops in the field, for our war games anyway.

We need to wake up, and we need to realize that just because we scream we’re number one, doesn’t mean we are. We need to realize that the enemy is unlikely to oblige your plans and stand stoically still and let you kill them. They are unlikely to surrender control of the air and sea without costing us a lot in the process, and even then it would be contested.

Wake up folks, or in ten years, we will see America’s military hugging the coast, afraid to venture out into the deep blue ocean because there be Dragons out there.

Let me guess, the Pentagon needs new 50,000 dollar hammers

 

[badger2]

#6’s problem is that Jefferson said more than that about the separation of church and State. Here, the writer doesn’t capitalize the word ‘church’ because of that fact.

 

[Quasar44]

USA could defeat Iran army in a week
Chinese AF is a joke compared to the USA

 

[badger2]

The commies want to control the way Chinese have always done. You cite the example of the Udihe people of the Primorskye Krai, hopelessly indebted to the Chinese. These Yellow Roosterfish want to control America via Walmart. It’s much better sexual yoga to screw them back by boycotting Walmart than to beef up the military. On the otherhand, what the hell: do both.

 

[JoeB131]

Here we are parting ways. If we stand for anything it is self determination. And Taiwan has a functioning Government that is elected by the people in a free election. Moreover we have an understanding to defend them if attacked.

Well, shame on us. It's a stupid thing to fight a war over.

you have to contexualize Taiwan in the context of Chinese History. From the first Opium War until the Communist Revolution, China underwent the "Century of Humiliation", where outside powers came in and had their way with it. They exploited China for its goods and resources and stole their territory, which is why China went from this.

to this.

So what we see as "aggression" towards Taiwan or Tibet or Hong Kong or the Uyghurs, the Chinese see as restoring their territorial integrity.

But let’s be practical instead of principled. If we don’t defend Taiwan to the utmost we have to basically serve up Asia on a platter for China.

If we don’t fight for Taiwan do we fight for Korea? Isn’t unification an internal matter?

Do we fight for any other nation?

Eventually we will decide we have to fight. And that will lead to us using Nukes. There won’t be an option to remain conventional.

But wouldn't any fight lead to nukes? Do you think that if we step into a fight between Taiwan and China that the Chinese will refrain from using nukes?

 

[JoeB131]

USA could defeat Iran army in a week
Chinese AF is a joke compared to the USA

Uh, we just got chased out of Iraq and Afghanistan... I don't think we'd far better against China or Iran.

 

[sparky]

Is that the same pentagon that has contingency plans for killer tomatoes?

~S~

 

[gipper]

One of the things Japan could not do was train pilots. Even when they could manufacture planes, the pilots were ill or untrained. The last wave, the Kamikaze pilots could barely fly straight and level. They would often report Destroyers as Battleships.

By contrast some of the pilots who survived Midway and Coral Sea were Rotated back to teach the hard won lessons to the next generation of Pilots. The vets of Guadalcanal did the same. They told the new pilots about how to survive and win in air combat.

Now most of our electronics are made in China. And that gives them an advantage.

Tiny Chinese Microchips Reportedly Found Hidden in Amazon, Apple Servers

The jaw-dropping report is disputed by some of the supposed victims.

www.popularmechanics.com

I wonder if a war starts and all our planes with all their high tech awesomeness will just sit on the ground and refuse to start?

It's probably not a good idea to compare a war in 1941-45 to one today. If we fought a war with China today, it would be over in weeks, not years.

The first question is, "What are we fighting them over?"

Moving into Hong Kong? None of our business. Hong Kong is legally China's property.

The shitty little Islands of the South China Sea. Yeah, try explaining to an American Mom that's why her son is coming home in a box or in a ship at the bottom of the sea.

Invading Taiwan? Well, from a legal stance, they kind of have the right to invade Taiwan. Taiwan is historically part of China. Taiwan doesn't pretend to be independent, it claims it's the legitimate government of China since Cash-my-Check got run out 72 years ago.

If they haven't moved in 72 years, they aren't going to now.

Second problem is, Taiwan does a lot of investment in the mainland. As much as they hate each other, they are economically interdependent. Neither side would gain more than they would lose in a war .

Now, if China were to move against our allies in Japan or the Philippines, THEN you might have an argument. But again, China is economically dependent on Japan and for the Philippines, what do they have that anyone would want? The country is as poor as you can get. Also, they'd be a real pain to occupy, as the Japanese, Americans and Spanish all found out.

But here's the real reason why America and China won't go to war. BUSINESS. China sells 500 Billion in goods to the US and the US sells 120 Billion a year in goods to China.

Trump's trade war (which had as much to do with causing the 2020 recession as his fumbling response to Covid) actually caused our trade deficit with China to INCREASE.

View attachment 508348

Now, the historical comparison everyone uses is the Naval Arms Race between the United Kingdom and Germany in the years leading up to World War I. Except that kind of turned out to be a big dud. There was only one indecisive battle between the two big navies (Jutland) and the German Navy remained bottled up until it finally got fed up and revolted against the Kaiser.

I can't see the Chinese Navy being any more effective. They don't have the overseas ports, they are kind of easily bottled in with a limited coastline.

What we really need is to work with China to fix all the damage the Orange Shitgibbon did in our relations with them.

Here we are parting ways. If we stand for anything it is self determination. And Taiwan has a functioning Government that is elected by the people in a free election. Moreover we have an understanding to defend them if attacked.

Kennedy said there was no better friend and no worse enemy than the United States.

But let’s be practical instead of principled. If we don’t defend Taiwan to the utmost we have to basically serve up Asia on a platter for China.

If we don’t fight for Taiwan do we fight for Korea? Isn’t unification an internal matter?

Do we fight for any other nation?

Eventually we will decide we have to fight. And that will lead to us using Nukes. There won’t be an option to remain conventional.

If only we could stop our CIA from overthrowing democratically elected governments for the benefit of big corporations, first.

 

[Mac-7]

instead of blaming Walmart or Washington, we should blame ourselves. We are the ones who go to the stores and buy these goods from China because they are cheap.

And politicians in washington accepting dirty chinese money while voting to remove tariffs from chinese made products had nothing to do with it, huh?

Trade policy is one of the big decisions that we elect members of congress and the president to deal with in our best interests

And the pols failed miserably

 

[Mac-7]

One of the things Japan could not do was train pilots. Even when they could manufacture planes, the pilots were ill or untrained. The last wave, the Kamikaze pilots could barely fly straight and level. They would often report Destroyers as Battleships.

By contrast some of the pilots who survived Midway and Coral Sea were Rotated back to teach the hard won lessons to the next generation of Pilots. The vets of Guadalcanal did the same. They told the new pilots about how to survive and win in air combat.

Now most of our electronics are made in China. And that gives them an advantage.

Tiny Chinese Microchips Reportedly Found Hidden in Amazon, Apple Servers

The jaw-dropping report is disputed by some of the supposed victims.

www.popularmechanics.com

I wonder if a war starts and all our planes with all their high tech awesomeness will just sit on the ground and refuse to start?

It's probably not a good idea to compare a war in 1941-45 to one today. If we fought a war with China today, it would be over in weeks, not years.

The first question is, "What are we fighting them over?"

Moving into Hong Kong? None of our business. Hong Kong is legally China's property.

The shitty little Islands of the South China Sea. Yeah, try explaining to an American Mom that's why her son is coming home in a box or in a ship at the bottom of the sea.

Invading Taiwan? Well, from a legal stance, they kind of have the right to invade Taiwan. Taiwan is historically part of China. Taiwan doesn't pretend to be independent, it claims it's the legitimate government of China since Cash-my-Check got run out 72 years ago.

If they haven't moved in 72 years, they aren't going to now.

Second problem is, Taiwan does a lot of investment in the mainland. As much as they hate each other, they are economically interdependent. Neither side would gain more than they would lose in a war .

Now, if China were to move against our allies in Japan or the Philippines, THEN you might have an argument. But again, China is economically dependent on Japan and for the Philippines, what do they have that anyone would want? The country is as poor as you can get. Also, they'd be a real pain to occupy, as the Japanese, Americans and Spanish all found out.

But here's the real reason why America and China won't go to war. BUSINESS. China sells 500 Billion in goods to the US and the US sells 120 Billion a year in goods to China.

Trump's trade war (which had as much to do with causing the 2020 recession as his fumbling response to Covid) actually caused our trade deficit with China to INCREASE.

View attachment 508348

Now, the historical comparison everyone uses is the Naval Arms Race between the United Kingdom and Germany in the years leading up to World War I. Except that kind of turned out to be a big dud. There was only one indecisive battle between the two big navies (Jutland) and the German Navy remained bottled up until it finally got fed up and revolted against the Kaiser.

I can't see the Chinese Navy being any more effective. They don't have the overseas ports, they are kind of easily bottled in with a limited coastline.

What we really need is to work with China to fix all the damage the Orange Shitgibbon did in our relations with them.

Here we are parting ways. If we stand for anything it is self determination. And Taiwan has a functioning Government that is elected by the people in a free election. Moreover we have an understanding to defend them if attacked.

Kennedy said there was no better friend and no worse enemy than the United States.

But let’s be practical instead of principled. If we don’t defend Taiwan to the utmost we have to basically serve up Asia on a platter for China.

If we don’t fight for Taiwan do we fight for Korea? Isn’t unification an internal matter?

Do we fight for any other nation?

Eventually we will decide we have to fight. And that will lead to us using Nukes. There won’t be an option to remain conventional.

Very well said

The only counter argument libs have is that china only wants Taiwan and is no threat to the rest of the world

Which fails when we consider chinas disputes with Vietnam, philippines, and Japan

All territorial disputes where china is clearly yhe aggressor

And chinas military clashes with India, which is the most non aggressive nation on the planet

 

[Mac-7]

USA could defeat Iran army in a week
Chinese AF is a joke compared to the USA

The chinese air force is no joke

And chinas missile force is impressive also

Which it should be since thanks to chinese engineers working the US the CCP stole the technology from America

 

[Mac-7]

wouldn't any fight lead to nukes? Do you think that if we step into a fight between Taiwan and China that the Chinese will refrain from using nukes?

Thats a fair question

My answer is that it is a possibility

Unlike our side the CCP calculates its next move AND our next move

If china believes that we will defend Taiwan they know that means war with the US which could as you say lead to nukes

I think they dont want that and would not invade Taiwan

But what if our intensions are unclear - as they were during the Korean War when the big brains in moscow and peking thought we wouldnt fight?

 

[JoeB131]

And politicians in washington accepting dirty chinese money while voting to remove tariffs from chinese made products had nothing to do with it, huh?

Trade policy is one of the big decisions that we elect members of congress and the president to deal with in our best interests

And the pols failed miserably

Okay, let's look at that. China also removed tariffs on our products. When the Orange Shitgibbon put on tariffs, China threw on some of their own. End result, the trade deficit with China INCREASED, because we really, really want those Chinese products.

The real problem is you can't make a computer chip in this country cheaply.

Thats a fair question

My answer is that it is a possibility

Unlike our side the CCP calculates its next move AND our next move

If china believes that we will defend Taiwan they know that means war with the US which could as you say lead to nukes

I think they dont want that and would not invade Taiwan

But what if our intensions are unclear - as they were during the Korean War when the big brains in moscow and peking thought we wouldnt fight?

Except the Russians never got directly involved in the fighting in Korea, and the Chinese only got involved when MacArthur started talking shit about invading their country.

The real problem is that China sees Taiwan's continued independence as just another example of outsiders fucking with their territorial integrity. If Taiwan did something boneheadly stupid like declared independence, they'd get invaded.

For now, the status quo works.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

USA could defeat Iran army in a week
Chinese AF is a joke compared to the USA

The chinese air force is no joke

And chinas missile force is impressive also

Which it should be since thanks to chinese engineers working the US the CCP stole the technology from America

You really need to go to rehab. CHINA'S AIR FORCE is more ancient than ours!

 

[Aletheia4u]

I see that the Pentagon want more funds in order for them to takeover this country.
these people knows how to play you all like a rag doll.
I wonder which one of you guys is going to buy the condoms for them to screw us all with?

Pentagon official leading military extremism crackdown said Trump supporters are extremists

The Pentagon official tasked with leading efforts to crack down on extremist views among military servicemembers once asserted that supporters of former President Donald Trump were also supporters of racism, misogyny and extremism.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Mac-7]

The real problem is you can't make a computer chip in this country cheaply.

I’m sorry that our chips cost a little more to make

American workers do not want to work 12 hours a day and live in squalor

So what if your cell phone costs a little more?

In the long run every American is better off