***Paul Krugman admits DEATH PANELS***

[P@triot]

The idiot liberal dumbocrat is so naive and ignorant, it is truly astounding. Anyone with a junior high education understood that terms like "rationing" and "dedication of resources" are just code words for DEATH PANELS.

When educated conservatives point out the obvious (like the above reality and the fact that every single payer system in the world decides who lives and dies), the idiot liberal dumbocrat screams "tin foil hats" like children. Well, now we have one of the biggest names of the dumbocrat party - Paul Krugman, finally admitting DEATH PANELS are a necessity.

This is a chilling admission by one of the biggest Liberals around - Paul Krugman. He spoke at a church earlier in the week and admitted that death panels and a value added tax will be needed to pay for rising health care costs, Obamacare and the Entitlement State. Transcript below since it is hard to hear even though I upped the audio as much as possible in Premiere.

Eventually we do have a problem. That the population is getting older, health care costs are rising... there is this question of how we're going to pay for the programs. The year 2025, the year 2030, something is going to have to give... We're going to need more revenue... Surely it will require some sort of middle class taxes as well.. We won't be able to pay for the kind of government the society we want without some increase in taxes... on the middle class, maybe a value added tax... And we're also going to have to make decisions about health care, doc pay for health care that has no demonstrated medical benefits. So the snarky version... which I shouldn't even say because it will get me in trouble, is death panels and sales taxes is how we do this.

[ame=http://youtu.be/kyeMnaAOQL8]Paul Krugman admits Death Panels and value added tax is how we pay for health care - YouTube[/ame]

 

[g5000]

You are weeks behind the curve: http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...n-pay-for-entitlements-with-death-panels.html

 

[konradv]

What are they called when insurance companies do it?

 

[NYcarbineer]

So conservatives want the government to fund every medical procedure/treatment/option available to keep anyone alive for as long as possible, for any reason, if that's what the person wants?

Really?

Don't make us laugh.

 

[P@triot]

So conservatives want the government to fund every medical procedure/treatment/option available to keep anyone alive for as long as possible, for any reason, if that's what the person wants?

Really?

Don't make us laugh.

That is awesome! First you guys claim that death panels would "never" happen and this was all "right-wing propaganda".

Now, all of a sudden, the new narrative is "well yeah, what do you want, the government to pay for people to live for ever"?

God damn, this is conservative GOLD here! You can't buy this kind of comedy....

 

[P@triot]

So conservatives want the government to fund every medical procedure/treatment/option available to keep anyone alive for as long as possible, for any reason, if that's what the person wants?

Really?

Don't make us laugh.

(hint stupid: what conservatives actually want is for government to get the fuck out of the medical industry)

 

[editec]

The idiot liberal dumbocrat is so naive and ignorant, it is truly astounding. Anyone with a junior high education understood that terms like "rationing" and "dedication of resources" are just code words for DEATH PANELS.

When educated conservatives point out the obvious (like the above reality and the fact that every single payer system in the world decides who lives and dies), the idiot liberal dumbocrat screams "tin foil hats" like children. Well, now we have one of the biggest names of the dumbocrat party - Paul Krugman, finally admitting DEATH PANELS are a necessity.

This is a chilling admission by one of the biggest Liberals around - Paul Krugman. He spoke at a church earlier in the week and admitted that death panels and a value added tax will be needed to pay for rising health care costs, Obamacare and the Entitlement State. Transcript below since it is hard to hear even though I upped the audio as much as possible in Premiere.

Eventually we do have a problem. That the population is getting older, health care costs are rising... there is this question of how we're going to pay for the programs. The year 2025, the year 2030, something is going to have to give... We're going to need more revenue... Surely it will require some sort of middle class taxes as well.. We won't be able to pay for the kind of government the society we want without some increase in taxes... on the middle class, maybe a value added tax... And we're also going to have to make decisions about health care, doc pay for health care that has no demonstrated medical benefits. So the snarky version... which I shouldn't even say because it will get me in trouble, is death panels and sales taxes is how we do this.

Paul Krugman admits Death Panels and value added tax is how we pay for health care - YouTube

Yup...exactly like we have already..only these death panels are run based on profit margins as determined by the insurance companies.

 

[konradv]

So conservatives want the government to fund every medical procedure/treatment/option available to keep anyone alive for as long as possible, for any reason, if that's what the person wants?

Really?

Don't make us laugh.

(hint stupid: what conservatives actually want is for government to get the fuck out of the medical industry)

I'd like to see insurance companies out of the medical industry. When the government has "death panels", it's to save your tax money. When the insurance companies do it, it's to make a profit. Which is more moral?

 

[P@triot]

So conservatives want the government to fund every medical procedure/treatment/option available to keep anyone alive for as long as possible, for any reason, if that's what the person wants?

Really?

Don't make us laugh.

(hint stupid: what conservatives actually want is for government to get the fuck out of the medical industry)

I'd like to see insurance companies out of the medical industry. When the government has "death panels", it's to save your tax money. When the insurance companies do it, it's to make a profit. Which is more moral?

Profit is 1,000x's more "moral". Profits creates jobs - taxes destroy them. Profits creates salaries - taxes deplete them. Profits go towards expansion - taxes go towards waste and fraud.

By the way - you completely control insurance companies. If you want them out of the medical industry - don't use one. Pay for everything yourself (you can do that you know).

 

[P@triot]

I would like to give kudos to liberals on this issue here. It is nice for one to have an HONEST conversation. Perhaps in the future we could avoid attacking conservatives on things we know to be true?

I'd much rather have a conversation about insurance companies vs government rather than conversations around denials and absurd "tin foil hat" accusations.

 

[g5000]

The idiot liberal dumbocrat is so naive and ignorant, it is truly astounding. Anyone with a junior high education understood that terms like "rationing" and "dedication of resources" are just code words for DEATH PANELS.

When educated conservatives point out the obvious (like the above reality and the fact that every single payer system in the world decides who lives and dies), the idiot liberal dumbocrat screams "tin foil hats" like children. Well, now we have one of the biggest names of the dumbocrat party - Paul Krugman, finally admitting DEATH PANELS are a necessity.

This is a chilling admission by one of the biggest Liberals around - Paul Krugman. He spoke at a church earlier in the week and admitted that death panels and a value added tax will be needed to pay for rising health care costs, Obamacare and the Entitlement State. Transcript below since it is hard to hear even though I upped the audio as much as possible in Premiere.

Eventually we do have a problem. That the population is getting older, health care costs are rising... there is this question of how we're going to pay for the programs. The year 2025, the year 2030, something is going to have to give... We're going to need more revenue... Surely it will require some sort of middle class taxes as well.. We won't be able to pay for the kind of government the society we want without some increase in taxes... on the middle class, maybe a value added tax... And we're also going to have to make decisions about health care, doc pay for health care that has no demonstrated medical benefits. So the snarky version... which I shouldn't even say because it will get me in trouble, is death panels and sales taxes is how we do this.

Paul Krugman admits Death Panels and value added tax is how we pay for health care - YouTube

For the comprehension challenged, we see that Krugman abbreviated "some increase in taxes on the middle class, mabye a Value Added Tax" down to "sales taxes". A VAT is a sales tax.

We see he abbreviated "doc pay for health care that has no demonstrated medical benefits" down to "death panels".

Every insurance company does this. They would bleed money if they paid for treatments that had no efficacy. Every insurance company has a board of medical experts which determines what treatments are efficacious for which illnesses, injuries, or diseases. ObamaCare establishes an identical board for the same purpose. The mentally challenged decided to call these "death panels". They never called the private sector version of these "death panels" because that does not fit the narrative. If you want to scare the rubes, you have to present them a very carefully framed still photograph.

Krugman was being "snarky" by using the whackjobs' own term.

But the people in the audience were smarter than the whackjobs. They got the joke.


There are far better reasons to challenge Krugman's remarks. Getting all heated up over his use of "death panels" betrays an intellectual bankruptcy that does not know how.

 

[Mustang]

what are they called when insurance companies do it?

Profit!

 

[OriginalShroom]

Every problem with the Health Care industry, like so many of today's problems lie with the Democratic Party and those people who want a huge centralized Government to care for them from cradle to grave.

Look at the Constitution and the powers it actually confers upon the President and the Congress...


Could you imagine how much better off we would be today if these limits were actually followed for the past 200 years, especially the past 100?

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.



Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 9 - Limits on Congress
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

(No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.)

No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.



Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 2 - Civilian Power Over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

 

[dblack]

What are they called when insurance companies do it?

It's the same thing. Difference is, you can choose your insurance company - or choose not to play the insurance game at all. Er... well, you used to be able to. Until the corporatists sold us down the river.

 

[konradv]

What are they called when insurance companies do it?

It's the same thing. Difference is, you can choose your insurance company - or choose not to play the insurance game at all. Er... well, you used to be able to. Until the corporatists sold us down the river.

Those that choose not to are what I'd call "freeloaders", because they know when the time comes they will be taken care of.

 

[Antares]

You just love to see yourself type don't you?

Why don't you tell me what the Declaration page onan insurance policy is?

(quick google it)

The idiot liberal dumbocrat is so naive and ignorant, it is truly astounding. Anyone with a junior high education understood that terms like "rationing" and "dedication of resources" are just code words for DEATH PANELS.

When educated conservatives point out the obvious (like the above reality and the fact that every single payer system in the world decides who lives and dies), the idiot liberal dumbocrat screams "tin foil hats" like children. Well, now we have one of the biggest names of the dumbocrat party - Paul Krugman, finally admitting DEATH PANELS are a necessity.

This is a chilling admission by one of the biggest Liberals around - Paul Krugman. He spoke at a church earlier in the week and admitted that death panels and a value added tax will be needed to pay for rising health care costs, Obamacare and the Entitlement State. Transcript below since it is hard to hear even though I upped the audio as much as possible in Premiere.

Eventually we do have a problem. That the population is getting older, health care costs are rising... there is this question of how we're going to pay for the programs. The year 2025, the year 2030, something is going to have to give... We're going to need more revenue... Surely it will require some sort of middle class taxes as well.. We won't be able to pay for the kind of government the society we want without some increase in taxes... on the middle class, maybe a value added tax... And we're also going to have to make decisions about health care, doc pay for health care that has no demonstrated medical benefits. So the snarky version... which I shouldn't even say because it will get me in trouble, is death panels and sales taxes is how we do this.

Paul Krugman admits Death Panels and value added tax is how we pay for health care - YouTube

For the comprehension challenged, we see that Krugman abbreviated "some increase in taxes on the middle class, mabye a Value Added Tax" down to "sales taxes". A VAT is a sales tax.

We see he abbreviated "doc pay for health care that has no demonstrated medical benefits" down to "death panels".

Every insurance company does this. They would bleed money if they paid for treatments that had no efficacy. Every insurance company has a board of medical experts which determines what treatments are efficacious for which illnesses, injuries, or diseases. ObamaCare establishes an identical board for the same purpose. The mentally challenged decided to call these "death panels". They never called the private sector version of these "death panels" because that does not fit the narrative. If you want to scare the rubes, you have to present them a very carefully framed still photograph.

Krugman was being "snarky" by using the whackjobs' own term.

But the people in the audience were smarter than the whackjobs. They got the joke.


There are far better reasons to challenge Krugman's remarks. Getting all heated up over his use of "death panels" betrays an intellectual bankruptcy that does not know how.

 

[konradv]

(hint stupid: what conservatives actually want is for government to get the fuck out of the medical industry)

I'd like to see insurance companies out of the medical industry. When the government has "death panels", it's to save your tax money. When the insurance companies do it, it's to make a profit. Which is more moral?

Profit is 1,000x's more "moral". Profits creates jobs - taxes destroy them. Profits creates salaries - taxes deplete them. Profits go towards expansion - taxes go towards waste and fraud.

By the way - you completely control insurance companies. If you want them out of the medical industry - don't use one. Pay for everything yourself (you can do that you know).

Why do you call them "death panels" when the government does it, but not the insurance companies? Who has the money to pay for the big ticket items themselves, very few. You want to talk about the "morality" of profits, but want to ignore the other issue. Doesn't fit your slant?

 

[Antares]

Same question for you spary, do you know what the pupose of a Declaration page of a policy is?

Quick....google it

I'd like to see insurance companies out of the medical industry. When the government has "death panels", it's to save your tax money. When the insurance companies do it, it's to make a profit. Which is more moral?

Profit is 1,000x's more "moral". Profits creates jobs - taxes destroy them. Profits creates salaries - taxes deplete them. Profits go towards expansion - taxes go towards waste and fraud.

By the way - you completely control insurance companies. If you want them out of the medical industry - don't use one. Pay for everything yourself (you can do that you know).

Why do you call them "death panels" when the government does it, but not the insurance companies? Who has the money to pay for the big ticket items themselves, very few. You want to talk about the "morality" of profits, but want to ignore the other issue. Doesn't fit your slant?

 

[P@triot]

Why do you call them "death panels" when the government does it, but not the insurance companies?

Because I have a concrete, contractual agreement with insurance companies before we enter into an agreement. With the goverment, I don't even have an agreement (I'm forced against my will - just like Social Security - to comply with their dictatorial view of how my healthcare/retirement/etc. should be handled). And I certainly don't get a contract from them that will force them to do what I expect.

The insurance company says "you're capped at $1 million" - then I have no complaints. They are contractually forced to provide up to that $1 million, and I have no right to bitch if my healthcare costs exceeds that $1 million. It's all fair.

Who has the money to pay for the big ticket items themselves, very few.

Pretty much every American - unfortunately, 99.9999999% of us choose to live completely frivolously. Here you sit typing on a computer you don't need connected to an ISP you don't need. You don't need any of the televisions in your home. Or your closet full of clothes. Or your Blackberry. The only thing you actually need is food, water, and shelter. If you prioritized in such a manner, I guarantee the overwhelming majority of employed American's can afford the "big ticket" items. Major bypass surgery costs roughly around $50k when it's all said and done. The average American makes $45k. So it's not like the "big ticket" items are completely and totally out of reach (as if they cost $1.2 billion or something). America wants to spend lavishly on their entertainment, and then they want someone else to pick up the tab on their necessities. Sorry, that's just wrong my friend.

You want to talk about the "morality" of profits, but want to ignore the other issue. Doesn't fit your slant?

What have I ignored? I have answered every post you made - and done so in a cordial manner - have I not? I have no slant. I want to be in control of my own healthcare. If I hate my insurance company, I can pick a new one or just save money on them, put it aside, and pay for healthcare myself. If I hate my government, I can't pick a new government to do business with. I'm forced at the barrel of a gun to comply with them. I can't believe you lefties are willing to trade freedom and choice for awful government table scraps....

 

[buckeye45_73]

So conservatives want the government to fund every medical procedure/treatment/option available to keep anyone alive for as long as possible, for any reason, if that's what the person wants?

Really?

Don't make us laugh.

well we dont want the governement messing in health care, morons like you want the government doing this

did you say death panels were made up by right wingers...I guess after you guy won, you're ok with telling the truth?

God I hate commies

BTW I'd like private insurance and be able to pay for my care.....thank you.