Patriotism

[Deplorable Yankee]

I've been thinking about patriotism recently.

Often patriotism is used as a political tool, more or less like "cancel culture", it's used to try and force people to think a certain way, often forcing people to accept right wing policies for fear of being called "non-patriotic".

I've also looked at the rise of patriotism in China under Xi.

I've ended up looking at the terminology of Patriotism. "Love of one's country" and comparing it with love in other ways, especially loving a husband or wife.

Often, the manifestation of love between two people isn't about what a person RECEIVES, it's about what they GIVE. People often give up things because they value their loving relationship more than they value those things they did before the relationship.

So, essentially patriotism which is all about a person RECEIVING things from their country, like wealth, like comfort, like a certain way of life etc etc, would be like a man saying he loves his wife because she gives him sex.

Whereas the proper way (in my opinion) of seeing patriotism would be more like, a man gives up drinking on a Friday night to spend it with his wife because he knows his wife doesn't like him going away. This would be the equivalent of a person treating their country with respect. Not littering, not committing crime, participating the political process intelligently and for the greater good of society, rather than for personal gain.

This is often no so clear cut. When the US went to war in Iraq in 2003, people who went to fight might be considered "Patriots" for risking their life for their country. However someone who refused to go fight might also be considered a "Patriot" because the Iraq War was clearly a private enterprise using public money and public services (the armed forces) for profit.

Patriotism has been brought to you by Pfizer

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Having any kind of love or loyalty to this country, as presently constituted, makes as much sense having love or loyalty to an abusive spouse that is also a serial killer. The body looks just like the person you married but the soul is gone.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Next time you get all worried about not sounding silly around here, try not being so fallacious. Perhaps a tad more fellatioish or cunninlinguish as suggested by each case. That'll be $10. Cheap! Just email it to MyGreatBigGrumblyNuts.com.

Well, thanks for that bullshit advice, now, if you don't mind, this thread is actually about something.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Well, thanks for that bullshit advice, now, if you don't mind, this thread is actually about something.

Oh, don't mention it and you're most welcome!

Oh, and by the way,..

So, you think because a word contains another word, it must mean that this is the only thing it can refer to?

The applicable logical fallacy is? And how do you picture a serious, political person responding?

 

[Correll]

I'm not sure the US lost its mind after 9/11. Certainly it wasn't good after 9/11. But before 9/11 the US was gallivanting around the world pretending to be the "World's police force", you could say that even Korea was the US trying to tell people what to do.

The US has supported many dictators, Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, Pinochet to name a few.

In South Korea, our purpose has been to protect a free and democratic nation from communist aggressors, for generations.


You could spin that as "being a police force", but you cannot spin it as "telling people what to do".


That is an anti-American lie.

 

[Curried Goats]

Correll

What is there interesting to say about Patriotism? It has a pretty simple definition. Love and devotion of one's country. What's to argue about?

 

[Correll]

Correll

What is there interesting to say about Patriotism? It has a pretty simple definition. Love and devotion of one's country. What's to argue about?

Are you a Patriot? Do you feel love of your country? Which country is that?

 

[Curried Goats]

Are you a Patriot? Do you feel love of your country? Which country is that?

Sure. I love my country, which is America by the way, I was born here so I'm a citizen. I also have love for Jamaica where my parents and grandparents are from and where my daughter was born.

 

[Correll]

Sure. I love my country, which is America by the way, I was born here so I'm a citizen. I also have love for Jamaica where my parents and grandparents are from and where my daughter was born.

All the other lefties in this thread felt a need for all kind of qualifiers.


You sure you don't need any qualifiers?

 

[Curried Goats]

All the other lefties in this thread felt a need for all kind of qualifiers.


You sure you don't need any qualifiers?

Nope.

 

[Correll]

Nope.

FUnny. Such individuality is rare among libs.

On the other hand, lying is as common as breathing, or eating food.

 

[Curried Goats]

FUnny. Such individuality is rare among libs.

On the other hand, lying is as common as breathing, or eating food.

Lol. I told you it was a boring conversation. Individuality and disagreement isn't uncommon among liberals in fact we've had a pretty public one playing out the last month over the infrastructure bill which is really part of the larger little civil war going on between moderates and progressives.

 

[Correll]

Lol. I told you it was a boring conversation. Individuality and disagreement isn't uncommon among liberals in fact we've had a pretty public one playing out the last month over the infrastructure bill which is really part of the larger little civil war going on between moderates and progressives.

Are you a Patriot?

 

[Curried Goats]

Are you a Patriot?

Sure. But as I said, patriotism is love and devotion to one's country and love is subjective. We might have completely different ideas on what is or isn't patriotic and that's fine.

 

[Correll]

Sure. But as I said, patriotism is love and devotion to one's country and love is subjective. We might have competent different ideas on what is or isn't patriotic and that's fine.

What do you love about this country?

 

[Blues Man]

I've not read much "Literature". I read mostly genre fiction or non-fiction.

If you had some hidden point due to unstated context, make it, or I will just take it as I see it, which is as an attack on the very idea of Patriotism.

The quote alludes to the violence often perpetrated in the name of patriotism, particularly by governments.

 

[Correll]

The quote alludes to the violence often perpetrated in the name of patriotism, particularly by governments.

Wow. Yeah, I caught that. That is pretty much what I figured he meant. Glad I didn't bother reading his shit.


My point stands. I am not "vicious". I am Patriotic. I know many Patriotic people. THey are not "vicious".


Oscar Wilde smeared a lot of good people with that quote and he is an asshole.

 

[Blues Man]

Wow. Yeah, I caught that. That is pretty much what I figured he meant. Glad I didn't bother reading his shit.


My point stands. I am not "vicious". I am Patriotic. I know many Patriotic people. THey are not "vicious".


Oscar Wilde smeared a lot of good people with that quote and he is an asshole.

Wilde was a brilliant observer of human behavior.

And the fact is so called patriots do revert to violence in a lot of situations. Ask yourself why patriotism and war are so entwined.

I never hear a patriot say that helping the poor or cleaning up a neighborhood is patriotic.

 

[Correll]

Wilde was a brilliant observer of human behavior.

And the fact is so called patriots do revert to violence in a lot of situations. Ask yourself why patriotism and war are so entwined.

I never hear a patriot say that helping the poor or cleaning up a neighborhood is patriotic.

Groups of people, especially with conflicting interests clash and fight.


When nations do it, the motivation for some of the people is often "patriotism".


But, such violence is not limited to Patriots, and Patriots and Patriotism does manifest in other ways.


For Wilde to smear all Patriots by claiming that it is a "virtue of the vicious" is him being an asshole and a fool.


In today's world, plenty of people are being increasingly violent, and they are not Patriots.


Indeed, they are targeting Patriots.

 

[Curried Goats]

What do you love about this country?

Lots of things. Jazz, Soul, R&B and Hip Hop. Harriet Tubman. She was a real life super hero. Civil rights activists in general and their victory through democracy rather than violence. Football. Basketball. 60s - 70s muscle cars. 80s fashion. McDonald's. Barbecue. Reliable infrastructure and government. I love the vibrancy and multicultural mashup that is South Florida. American movies and TV shows are better. Squid Game was pretty good though. And there are a lot of great foreign movies but no one can touch a big Hollywood blockbuster. And a million other things.