Patriotism

[frigidweirdo]

I've been thinking about patriotism recently.

Often patriotism is used as a political tool, more or less like "cancel culture", it's used to try and force people to think a certain way, often forcing people to accept right wing policies for fear of being called "non-patriotic".

I've also looked at the rise of patriotism in China under Xi.

I've ended up looking at the terminology of Patriotism. "Love of one's country" and comparing it with love in other ways, especially loving a husband or wife.

Often, the manifestation of love between two people isn't about what a person RECEIVES, it's about what they GIVE. People often give up things because they value their loving relationship more than they value those things they did before the relationship.

So, essentially patriotism which is all about a person RECEIVING things from their country, like wealth, like comfort, like a certain way of life etc etc, would be like a man saying he loves his wife because she gives him sex.

Whereas the proper way (in my opinion) of seeing patriotism would be more like, a man gives up drinking on a Friday night to spend it with his wife because he knows his wife doesn't like him going away. This would be the equivalent of a person treating their country with respect. Not littering, not committing crime, participating the political process intelligently and for the greater good of society, rather than for personal gain.

This is often no so clear cut. When the US went to war in Iraq in 2003, people who went to fight might be considered "Patriots" for risking their life for their country. However someone who refused to go fight might also be considered a "Patriot" because the Iraq War was clearly a private enterprise using public money and public services (the armed forces) for profit.

 

[harmonica]

I've been thinking about patriotism recently.

Often patriotism is used as a political tool, more or less like "cancel culture", it's used to try and force people to think a certain way, often forcing people to accept right wing policies for fear of being called "non-patriotic".

I've also looked at the rise of patriotism in China under Xi.

I've ended up looking at the terminology of Patriotism. "Love of one's country" and comparing it with love in other ways, especially loving a husband or wife.

Often, the manifestation of love between two people isn't about what a person RECEIVES, it's about what they GIVE. People often give up things because they value their loving relationship more than they value those things they did before the relationship.

So, essentially patriotism which is all about a person RECEIVING things from their country, like wealth, like comfort, like a certain way of life etc etc, would be like a man saying he loves his wife because she gives him sex.

Whereas the proper way (in my opinion) of seeing patriotism would be more like, a man gives up drinking on a Friday night to spend it with his wife because he knows his wife doesn't like him going away. This would be the equivalent of a person treating their country with respect. Not littering, not committing crime, participating the political process intelligently and for the greater good of society, rather than for personal gain.

This is often no so clear cut. When the US went to war in Iraq in 2003, people who went to fight might be considered "Patriots" for risking their life for their country. However someone who refused to go fight might also be considered a "Patriot" because the Iraq War was clearly a private enterprise using public money and public services (the armed forces) for profit.

1. it wasn't for profit
2. they were all VOLUNTEERS --so if you refused to fight, you were not a patriot

 

[Grumblenuts]

To me "unpatriotic" would seem the normal term or epithet applied to someone else "not feeling or showing love for or devotion to one's country." Where we're born is a pretty weird thing to get all possessive and defensive about. Not that people don't, but it's not like one's parents often had much choice in the matter or reason to give it much thought to begin with. Makes more sense to be grateful for things like one's family, culture, neighborhood, inheritance,.. given thinking about them generally makes one feel proud or more secure, content, or happy in retrospect compared to some likely alternative, which again, cannot simply be presumed. Recent immigrants appear to get most lathered up over displaying patriotism. Maybe just to help convince themselves they'd made a smart choice. But it does make sense for those who've truly fled oppression and been welcomed into a better homeland. Being proud to live in a country that's among the happiest on Earth makes the most sense.

 

[Mac1958]

Patriotism is based on emotion, and as with any emotion, it can become terribly distorted, easily manipulated and ultimately counterproductive.

As we're seeing.

 

[surada]

1. it wasn't for profit
2. they were all VOLUNTEERS --so if you refused to fight, you were not a patriot

Iraq was crippled by two decades of war and sanctions. They were NOT a threat to anyone. Read Clean Break Strategy.

 

[Grumblenuts]

1. it wasn't for profit
2. they were all VOLUNTEERS --so if you refused to fight, you were not a patriot

Did they get PAID? If you refused the pay, you were a patriot.

 

[harmonica]

Did they get PAID? If you refused the pay, you were a patriot.

what????!!!!!

 

[Osiris-ODS]

what????!!!!!

Don't even bother trying to make sense of these posts. Save your brain cells and sanity and move on.

 

[Lastamender]

Patriotism is based on emotion, and as with any emotion, it can become terribly distorted, easily manipulated and ultimately counterproductive.

As we're seeing.

Yep, your brand of patriotism is destroying this country and warping minds.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I've been thinking about patriotism recently.

Often patriotism is used as a political tool, more or less like "cancel culture", it's used to try and force people to think a certain way, often forcing people to accept right wing policies for fear of being called "non-patriotic".

I've also looked at the rise of patriotism in China under Xi.

I've ended up looking at the terminology of Patriotism. "Love of one's country" and comparing it with love in other ways, especially loving a husband or wife.

Often, the manifestation of love between two people isn't about what a person RECEIVES, it's about what they GIVE. People often give up things because they value their loving relationship more than they value those things they did before the relationship.

So, essentially patriotism which is all about a person RECEIVING things from their country, like wealth, like comfort, like a certain way of life etc etc, would be like a man saying he loves his wife because she gives him sex.

Whereas the proper way (in my opinion) of seeing patriotism would be more like, a man gives up drinking on a Friday night to spend it with his wife because he knows his wife doesn't like him going away. This would be the equivalent of a person treating their country with respect. Not littering, not committing crime, participating the political process intelligently and for the greater good of society, rather than for personal gain.

This is often no so clear cut. When the US went to war in Iraq in 2003, people who went to fight might be considered "Patriots" for risking their life for their country. However someone who refused to go fight might also be considered a "Patriot" because the Iraq War was clearly a private enterprise using public money and public services (the armed forces) for profit.

Disagree with the ‘cancel culture’ part – given the fact no one is being ‘canceled’; Dave Chappelle is proof of that.

Otherwise, yes – opposing government policy, denouncing bad acts of government, and addressing things that are wrong with one’s country are among the highest manifestations of patriotism.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

if you refused to fight, you were not a patriot

Wrong.

Again, to oppose bad acts of government – such as Bush’s failed, illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan – is the highest form of patriotism.

Indeed, blind patriotism – to ignore bad acts of government or things wrong with one’s country – is to be unpatriotic.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Disagree with the ‘cancel culture’ part – given the fact no one is being ‘canceled’; Dave Chappelle is proof of that.

Otherwise, yes – opposing government policy, denouncing bad acts of government, and addressing things that are wrong with one’s country are among the highest manifestations of patriotism.

Potentially. A person who tries to improve their country is probably someone who "loves" their country.

 

[frigidweirdo]

To me "unpatriotic" would seem the normal term or epithet applied to someone else "not feeling or showing love for or devotion to one's country." Where we're born is a pretty weird thing to get all possessive and defensive about. Not that people don't, but it's not like one's parents often had much choice in the matter or reason to give it much thought to begin with. Makes more sense to be grateful for things like one's family, culture, neighborhood, inheritance,.. given thinking about them generally makes one feel proud or more secure, content, or happy in retrospect compared to some likely alternative, which again, cannot simply be presumed. Recent immigrants appear to get most lathered up over displaying patriotism. Maybe just to help convince themselves they'd made a smart choice. But it does make sense for those who've truly fled oppression and been welcomed into a better homeland. Being proud to live in a country that's among the happiest on Earth makes the most sense.

Being grateful for where you're born isn't Patriotism, for me, but often this is how people see patriotism.

Being proud of one's country is also no patriotism. It could lead to patriotism, you could feel proud and then decide to use that feeling to "love" your country.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Patriotism is based on emotion, and as with any emotion, it can become terribly distorted, easily manipulated and ultimately counterproductive.

As we're seeing.

Yes, though the issue here is whether it's so distorted that the label is being used for something completely different.

 

[Correll]

Disagree with the ‘cancel culture’ part – given the fact no one is being ‘canceled’; Dave Chappelle is proof of that.

Otherwise, yes – opposing government policy, denouncing bad acts of government, and addressing things that are wrong with one’s country are among the highest manifestations of patriotism.

BLIND SKEPTICISM is just as bad as Blind Faith.


You people do not love America, you hate it.

 

[Correll]

Being grateful for where you're born isn't Patriotism, for me, but often this is how people see patriotism.

Being proud of one's country is also no patriotism. It could lead to patriotism, you could feel proud and then decide to use that feeling to "love" your country.

It is not about "where you are born".

That is you, diminishing Patriotism.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I've been thinking about patriotism recently.

Often patriotism is used as a political tool, more or less like "cancel culture", it's used to try and force people to think a certain way, often forcing people to accept right wing policies for fear of being called "non-patriotic".

I've also looked at the rise of patriotism in China under Xi.

I've ended up looking at the terminology of Patriotism. "Love of one's country" and comparing it with love in other ways, especially loving a husband or wife.

Often, the manifestation of love between two people isn't about what a person RECEIVES, it's about what they GIVE. People often give up things because they value their loving relationship more than they value those things they did before the relationship.

So, essentially patriotism which is all about a person RECEIVING things from their country, like wealth, like comfort, like a certain way of life etc etc, would be like a man saying he loves his wife because she gives him sex.

Whereas the proper way (in my opinion) of seeing patriotism would be more like, a man gives up drinking on a Friday night to spend it with his wife because he knows his wife doesn't like him going away. This would be the equivalent of a person treating their country with respect. Not littering, not committing crime, participating the political process intelligently and for the greater good of society, rather than for personal gain.

This is often no so clear cut. When the US went to war in Iraq in 2003, people who went to fight might be considered "Patriots" for risking their life for their country. However someone who refused to go fight might also be considered a "Patriot" because the Iraq War was clearly a private enterprise using public money and public services (the armed forces) for profit.

Which country's interests do you represent?

It isn't any of the Western countries, that's for sure.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It is not about "where you are born".

That is you, diminishing Patriotism.

Considering that he supports the gang rape of British children at the hands of Islamic rape gangs, I'm thinking he might be from Pakistan.

 

[harmonica]

Wrong.

Again, to oppose bad acts of government – such as Bush’s failed, illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan – is the highest form of patriotism.

Indeed, blind patriotism – to ignore bad acts of government or things wrong with one’s country – is to be unpatriotic.

but those wars were not illegal!! you prove you are so full of shit....it's so easy to refute your bullshit

 

[Mac1958]

Yes, though the issue here is whether it's so distorted that the label is being used for something completely different.

Sure. All terrorists think they're patriots, for example.