'Palestinian'

[rylah]

The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.

Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.

The link is very intense, not "tenuous." And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about? If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers. If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.

The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.

As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

The Jews keep the culture OF THE PLACE, speak the language OF THE PLACE, the religion OF THE PLACE, Jews occupied the land or parts of it for millenias, Jewish holiest sites are in Israel not in Saudi Arabia.

On the other hand Arabs speak the language of Arabia, keep the religion of Arabia (majority), their holiest sites are in Arabia, keep the culture of Arabia, identify as being members of Arabian tribes, or just as 'Syrians', there's no distinc Palestinian culture or tradition of the place that they follow.


All this makes Jews more 'Palestinian' than any Arabian or Bosnian tribe.

 

[rylah]

The link is very intense, not "tenuous." And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about? If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers. If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.

The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.

As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

I understand rylah's logic very well. Israelis have a very distinct heritage--language, foods, flag, anthem, customs, etc. A Palestinian's heritage isn't distinct from 22 others.

And besides that, what difference does it make?

Well You're fighting occupation, this should make all the difference, only if Arab Muslim occupation and subjugation are not Your only preferred way of rulling over the many nations in the ME.

 

[rylah]

Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.

They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.

What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?

You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.

You've got to open a book someday.

Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.

Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?

 

[rylah]

The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.

Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.

The link is very intense, not "tenuous." And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about? If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers. If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.

The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.

As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.



Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

 

[rylah]

Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.

They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.

What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?

You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.

No one ever heard of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity before 1967 when it was invented by Arafat, an Egyptian.

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

You are full of Israeli shit, as usual.

Was this the identitiy Arab Palestinians chose for themselves?? The British invented the Palestinian citizenship, the Arabs identified as Syrians and wanted the continuation of the Arab Muslim colonialism:

1 . "We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds. "

3. "In view of the above we desire that one district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection."

First Palestinian Arab Congress

 

[Challenger]

Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.

The link is very intense, not "tenuous." And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about? If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers. If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.

The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.

As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

I understand rylah's logic very well. Israelis have a very distinct heritage--language, foods, flag, anthem, customs, etc. A Palestinian's heritage isn't distinct from 22 others.

Heritage? No more than 70 years to create one I suppose, language was made up in the 1890's, foods largely stolen from their native countries' cultures, flag, since October 1948, customs? based on religious rituals maybe. Palestinians had a distinct heritage for centuries until the Zionists destroyed their society and ethnically cleansed them, so modern Zionist Israeli heritage is one of myth-history, brutal aggression, oppression and disposession of a native people, nothing to be proud of.

 

[Challenger]

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.

Maybe, but unfortunately in the case of the Zionist so called "Jewish People" the "ethnic group" IS the myth and the "heritage" IS an invention.

 

[Challenger]

Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.

The link is very intense, not "tenuous." And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about? If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers. If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.

The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.

As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.



Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism

 

[Challenger]

Was this the identitiy Arab Palestinians chose for themselves??

They weren't allowed to chose and those comments are taken out of context. The whole point was to prevent Britain and France carving up the region into colonies for their respective empires; the only alternative at the time, in 1919, was the unitary Arabic state the Arabic Ottoman citizens had rebelled to create and that was what they were trying to save, nothing to do with Palestinian nationalism, which some delegates were prepared to temporarily subsume for the greater good. Read the whole artice you cited First Palestinian Arab Congress

 

[rylah]

Was this the identitiy Arab Palestinians chose for themselves??

They weren't allowed to chose and those comments are taken out of context. The whole point was to prevent Britain and France carving up the region into colonies for their respective empires; the only alternative at the time, in 1919, was the unitary Arabic state the Arabic Ottoman citizens had rebelled to create and that was what they were trying to save, nothing to do with Palestinian nationalism, which some delegates were prepared to temporarily subsume for the greater good. Read the whole artice you cited First Palestinian Arab Congress

The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.

But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.

 

[rylah]

The link is very intense, not "tenuous." And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about? If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers. If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.

The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.

As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.



Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism

Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?

 

[Challenger]

The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.

Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.

But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.

Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".

 

[rylah]

The link is very intense, not "tenuous." And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about? If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers. If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.

The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.

As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

I understand rylah's logic very well. Israelis have a very distinct heritage--language, foods, flag, anthem, customs, etc. A Palestinian's heritage isn't distinct from 22 others.

Heritage? No more than 70 years to create one I suppose, language was made up in the 1890's, foods largely stolen from their native countries' cultures, flag, since October 1948, customs? based on religious rituals maybe. Palestinians had a distinct heritage for centuries until the Zionists destroyed their society and ethnically cleansed them, so modern Zionist Israeli heritage is one of myth-history, brutal aggression, oppression and disposession of a native people, nothing to be proud of.

No amount of Zionist revisionism will erase the connection between Jews and Israel.


The Hebrew language was invented in the 18th century? Give me a break. It's a semitic language based on the ancient Hebrew, a combination of Aramaic and other Canaanite languages.

Matza and an apple in honey are the Jewish national foods, Israelis don't say they invented hummus or falafel.

The Israeli flag is the Talit, a traditional Jewish veil. The national emblem is the Menorah. All these came FROM THE LAND, and was there for millenias before the Arabs colonized and dominated the area culturally.


Now what is this distinct 'Palestinian' culture You were talking about?

 

[Challenger]

The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.

As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.



Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism

Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?

How does this relate in any way to what I posted?

 

[rylah]

The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.

Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.

But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.

Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".

The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.

Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.

But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.

Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".

Why is it so hard to show evidence of Palestinian nationalism prior to their self identification as Syrians?

 

[rylah]

Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.



Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism

Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?

How does this relate in any way to what I posted?

If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism, what unites them into a nation,
Arabic culture, Islam, a dominating tribe?

 

[Challenger]

No amount of Zionist revisionism will erase the connection between Jews and Israel.

Zionist revisionism of history created a connection between Jewish Europeans and Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.

Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.



Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism

Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?

How does this relate in any way to what I posted?

If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism, what unites them into a nation,
Arabic culture, Islam, a dominating tribe?

They were all citizen of Palestine.

 

[Challenger]

If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,

I never said that.

 

[rylah]

No amount of Zionist revisionism will erase the connection between Jews and Israel.

Zionist revisionism of history created a connection between Jewish Europeans and Palestine.

No.
You're just deflecting from discussing Palestinian identity.