Our Solar/Alt Energy Future

[Grumblenuts]

It's 1973 again>

Tesla owners line up at Superchargers amid record Canada temperatures

Photo of Tesla electric cars lined up at Canadian Supercharger in searing heat underlines urgency for a transition to EVs, and for more charging stations.

thedriven.io

More EVs are coming. Where's the infrastructure to support them?

There are less than 46,000 public EV chargers currently in the U.S.

abcnews.go.com

~S~

Indeed, there's no accounting for stupid people. If you can't recharge it (from solar!) at home, at work, while you shop, visit the kids.. forget about it.. unless you're going on a long trip.. in which case, pay to use the solar powered recharging facilities and have a Wendy's burger or something!

 

[MisterBeale]

But wait, speaking of relying upon embarrassing RW talking points, there's more

Sparky, please explain how much "toxic waste per unit of energy" it takes to build your average nuke plant. Do you not see the game being played here? We're constantly being told that the cost of building, maintaining, and retiring nukes is nothing compared to all the "clean, too cheap to meter" energy they produce, so never mind all that! But the moment solar is brought up, Hwell now, one solar panel produces nothing compared to a nuke or natural gas plant, and just look at all this toxic shit involved, not to mention those dirty Chinks who are just killing us in the market with all their cheap, forced, foreign labor!

An Inconvenient Truth: Solar Panels Wear Out and They’re a Potent Source of Hazardous Waste - Hazardous Waste Experts

We discuss the truth about solar panels -- that they wear out and are a hazardous waste that must be disposed of according to EPA regulations.

www.hazardouswasteexperts.com

 

[Grumblenuts]

Which part of what I said did you intend to refute by posting that video?

1. Doing practically anything generates more toxic waste than nukes by volume.
2. However, the use of solar panels generates none.

Another swing.. and a miss..

 

[Grumblenuts]

An Inconvenient Truth: Solar Panels Wear Out and They’re a Potent Source of Hazardous Waste - Hazardous Waste Experts

We discuss the truth about solar panels -- that they wear out and are a hazardous waste that must be disposed of according to EPA regulations.

www.hazardouswasteexperts.com

Is your name sparky? Have you checked the bias rating on that one's source yet?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Of course you don't.

You're a Russian Communist now?

If you really wanna talk economics, define the term "waste" economics-wise.. Then try to explain how, in fact, no nuke in this country has ever managed to "generate" a dime of profit? Subsidies smudgidies!

 

[Synthaholic]

The government is lobbied by billionaires to pass, "green new deal initiative and subsidies."

How is it different or worse than billionaires lobbying government for the fossil fuel industry? Or any other industry?

At least Green Energy doesn't further poison the planet. Is that an afterthought for you? Most people love their children and grandchildren and don't want to leave them an unsustainable planet to live on, with wars over water, clean land, and clean air.

 

[Synthaholic]

The fact is, solar panels require batteries.

They do not produce as much energy as coal or gas.

You can keep posting stories like this, but it leaves out, very, VERY important pieces of the energy puzzle. It is still a fantasy.

It will continue to be a supplement, it IS NOT A REPLACEMENT.

Another obsolete talking point. I've already linked to a company that recycles lithium. There are also about 5 other battery types other than lithium. And lithium is abundant, with trillions of pounds in the oceans alone. Someone will figure out to extract it. It's not necessary for ocean life.

 

[Synthaholic]

It's 1973 again>

Tesla owners line up at Superchargers amid record Canada temperatures

Photo of Tesla electric cars lined up at Canadian Supercharger in searing heat underlines urgency for a transition to EVs, and for more charging stations.

thedriven.io

More EVs are coming. Where's the infrastructure to support them?

There are less than 46,000 public EV chargers currently in the U.S.

abcnews.go.com

~S~

Tesla needs to supply more charging stations or drop their proprietary connections.

Maybe you should grow a brain, and actually learn about what you're blabbering on about.

 

[Synthaholic]

It's 1973 again>

Tesla owners line up at Superchargers amid record Canada temperatures

Photo of Tesla electric cars lined up at Canadian Supercharger in searing heat underlines urgency for a transition to EVs, and for more charging stations.

thedriven.io

More EVs are coming. Where's the infrastructure to support them?

There are less than 46,000 public EV chargers currently in the U.S.

abcnews.go.com

~S~

Why are you so fucking stupid?

 

[MisterBeale]

How is it different or worse than billionaires lobbying government for the fossil fuel industry? Or any other industry?

At least Green Energy doesn't further poison the planet. Is that an afterthought for you? Most people love their children and grandchildren and don't want to leave them an unsustainable planet to live on, with wars over water, clean land, and clean air.

It is a false dichotomy.

The hydrocarbon industry is needed to build all of the infrastructure for the Green Energy industry.

The two are the same. The Green Agenda is just an extra step.

It will, on balance, be even more unsustainable, to move forward with the green agenda.

 

[MisterBeale]

Another obsolete talking point. I've already linked to a company that recycles lithium. There are also about 5 other battery types other than lithium. And lithium is abundant, with trillions of pounds in the oceans alone. Someone will figure out to extract it. It's not necessary for ocean life.

"And lithium is abundant, with trillions of pounds in the oceans alone. Someone will figure out to extract it."

I cannot tell you how absurd this sounds. Already, solar does not produce the energy that coal, gas and oil produce, and now? You are confident that somehow, there will be extra energy to extract energy for lithium production?



Smart phones, smart cars, smart appliances, smart cities? You really are not getting the scale of energy that is being consumed. . . and now? You think "solar, wind, and biomass," is going to compensate for the energy output that natural gas and coal can produce?

This is rich. It really is. . . . I remember when I was a kid, when weather stressors, around the globe happened, far fewer folks lost power. Now? A cold snap or a minor heat wave, and tens of thousands are without power. You just aren't getting it yet. Maybe you will when your electric car or phone has no juice to charge?



". . .The sheer magnitude and size of hyperscale data centers place enormous power demands upon global energy resources. Cisco estimates that by 2021, traffic within hyperscale data centers will have quadrupled, with hyperscale data centers accounting for approx. 55% of all data center traffic. [Source] At the local level, hyperscale data centres embody colossal electricity demand loads, adding pressure to electricity grids which are often already operating under duress. This is especially true for smaller or impoverished countries. Ireland is forecasting that 30% of their entire national grid will be earmarked for data center power consumption by 2028. One only needs to reflect upon the sheer enormity of these facilities proliferating the globe, to recognize the dire ecological impacts and consequences that lie ahead – upon an already plundered and decimated landscape and biosphere.

To ignore the ecological impact behind the exponential growth of ICT (information and communications technology), infrastructure, paramount for the Fourth Industrial Revolution to materialize, is in itself, a deliberate sleight of hand. A hypocritical genre of climate denialism practised and perfected by self-identifying liberals and progressives. At a moment’s notice, this faux left can be assembled on cue by those that preside over the non-profit industrial complex.. . . "

The Great Reset: The Final Assault on the Living Planet [It’s Not a Social Dilemma – It’s the Calculated Destruction of the Social, Part III] - Wrong Kind of Green

"Social license is being harvested to reset the capitalist system – under the guise of a climate emergency and saving the planet. This we know: the planet will not be saved by those that have destroyed it."

www.wrongkindofgreen.org

2017: Construction on the USD 1 billion 970,000-square-foot hyperscale Facebook data center. The 328-acre site became operational in 2019. At present, Facebook has 12 hyperscale data centers, nine in the U.S. and three in international markets amounting to nearly 15 million square feet of data center space completed or under construction, with several million more feet in the planning stages. [Source]

 

[Grumblenuts]

Well written article about Salton Sea lithium extraction for those with remaining access:

California’s Lithium Rush For EV Batteries Hinges On Taming Toxic, Volcanic Brine

The Salton Sea region has one of the largest known reserves of lithium and could power batteries for more than 50 million electric vehicles year. But first, it's got to be extracted from hot geothermal brine loaded with toxic material, a process that's never been done before at scale.

www.forbes.com

 

[Grumblenuts]

It is a false dichotomy.

You --> We rely hydrocarbons for our energy needs now. We'll be needing even more later. Therefore we must keep relying upon them alone!
Synth --> There are many proven alternatives. Even more in the works. The green ones will at least allow us to stop shitting where we eat!
You --> Harrumphh! False Dichotomy!
Me --> Indeed, you -- not Synth -- commit the fallacy of False Dilemma.

 

[Grumblenuts]

"And lithium is abundant, with trillions of pounds in the oceans alone. Someone will figure out to extract it."

I cannot tell you how absurd this sounds. Already, solar does not produce the energy that coal, gas and oil produce, and now? You are confident that somehow, there will be extra energy to extract energy for lithium production?

They already have the "extra energy" required available by the Salton Sea. Power plants that pump hot sea water to the surface, heating recycled fresh water to produce steam, which then powers turbine generators to produce grid electricity, minus what gets used to circulate the fresh water cycle and speed the sea water's normal rise toward the near surface within it's cycle.

Then (hopefully just) add / include gravitational or centrifugal filtering to fractionate out and return all the sludgy crap we don't want back down to well below the Earth's surface.

Note how no hydrocarbons are burned in the process, producing zero CO2 or CH4 additional atmospheric pollution. The entire area is already being polluted naturally by these super hot water spewing vents whether we ever make significantly more practical use of them or not.

I'll just add that your "The Green Agenda is just an extra step" whine is ironic, that being exactly what's being proposed with the extraction of lithium from the Salton Sea. There's nothing inherently wrong with riding along when the horse is already going your way.

Also, all technological transitions obviously take time. What's your hurry? Plus we'd be a lot further ahead if the hydrocarbon cartel hadn't killed the electric car and trolley back in the early 1900s.

Oh, and fuck Facebook. They produce nothing vital to life. Quite the contrary.

 

[sparky]

Why are you so fucking stupid?

Why have you no more than ad hominems ?

Do you not realize the taxpayer doesn't have enough trillions for an 'all electric' infrastructure?

Do you not realize pollution will not stop even if they did?

~S~

 

[sparky]

~S~

 

[Grumblenuts]

^"FOX NEWS" LOL

Blackouts and Bias: Clearing Up the Grid Narrative - R Street Institute

In the age of expedience-over-quality media and armchair Twitter “experts,” the struggle for veracity in public discourse has claimed another victim: the cause and fix for the blackouts sweeping the country. Confirmation bias is on full display, as different industry and political segments...

www.rstreet.org

In the meantime, armchair grid “experts” may want to give it a rest and retweet information from credible sources. The most colorful advice came from Commissioner Neil Chatterjee of the FERC who, after noting all fuel sources faced issues in the extreme cold, suggested that “[e]veryone just shut the f— up, and let the experts sort out what’s happening”. Enough said.

~G~

 

[sparky]

^"FOX NEWS" LOL

Blackouts and Bias: Clearing Up the Grid Narrative - R Street Institute

In the age of expedience-over-quality media and armchair Twitter “experts,” the struggle for veracity in public discourse has claimed another victim: the cause and fix for the blackouts sweeping the country. Confirmation bias is on full display, as different industry and political segments...

www.rstreet.org

~G~

Emphasize demand as much as supply. The bulk power system must balance supply and demand instantaneously to keep the lights on. Many, if not most, press articles exclusively cover supply reductions, ignoring the criticality of reducing non-essential electric demand. The consequences of the supply shortfall could have been dramatically reduced if there were better systems in place to curtail low value uses of electricity and to ensure households experienced only brief, rather than sustained, outages.

Yet the 'green machine' emphasizes increased electrical demand, along with infrastructure bills to accommodate it all

~A~

 

[Grumblenuts]

Emphasize demand as much as supply. The bulk power system must balance supply and demand instantaneously to keep the lights on. Many, if not most, press articles exclusively cover supply reductions, ignoring the criticality of reducing non-essential electric demand. The consequences of the supply shortfall could have been dramatically reduced if there were better systems in place to curtail low value uses of electricity and to ensure households experienced only brief, rather than sustained, outages.

Yet the 'green machine' emphasizes increased electrical demand, along with infrastructure bills to accommodate it all

~A~

Yes, you just responded to a pissed off RWer's criticisms of other RWers tweeting just the sort of one-liner crap you do. Tricked you, I know..

Sorry. For a refreshing change of pace, try embracing facts, reality, and stuff:

Energy conservation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Woodznutz]

Burning forests for energy isn't 'renewable' â now the EU must admit it | Greta Thunberg and others

The EU’s classification of wood fuels is accelerating the climate crisis. Next week, a key vote can change that, says Greta Thunberg and other environmental activists

www.theguardian.com

"Limiting nutrients". Stay informed.