Zone1 OT evidence, if not proof, of original sin

The boundaries were set. Don’t eat that specific fruit. Don’t. That’s a command. He disobeyed. From this, their children also disobeyed. Many to the point of being a living place for a killer like Cain. Adam and Eve went from a peaceful perfect eternal existence to being subject to the lone and dreary world never to return if left there. But Father in Heaven provided a way back. Total forgiveness and the disobedience completely 100% washed away and no longer remembered by the Godhead. He promised to provide Adam and Eve and their families for generations to generations a Savior to atone for their sins if they repent, be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. To prepare mankind for this event, he provided the animal sacrifice being the first born without blemish. He also provided a way to take your DNA and reconstruct (or clone) your body, placing your spirit into it once more in a way that you will be eternal forever never to die again.
There will be blessings at different levels based on what you do during your life with what you are given. The atonement and your basic spirit will take you the rest of the way to exaltation down to working somewhere in heaven. Some won’t make it to heaven. Those are those who commit the unpardonable sin, denying the Holy Ghost.
He was expected to disobey. Disobedience is the test fir free will. God said Adam will die if he ae the fruit. Did he die. No. Its Gods plan that he eat the fruit so the moral teaching can begin. That leads to the Trial For Mans Freedom.

Christians created original sin hell and a devil to use fear to force people to follow them you conclude with that threat.

Your last sentence proves my point. What follows was the slaughter of the Gnostics, persecution of the Jews who knew your dogma was false and the Crusades. Hate fear threats are the moral values of Christians.
Im a Jew I dont have hell or devil we all go to the afterlife and come back to God. Our God is loving. Yours is more like the devil you created. I dont need your god I was saved at Mt Saini.
 
He was expected to disobey. Disobedience is the test fir free will. God said Adam will die if he ae the fruit. Did he die. No. Its Gods plan that he eat the fruit so the moral teaching can begin. That leads to the Trial For Mans Freedom.

Christians created original sin hell and a devil to use fear to force people to follow them you conclude with that threat.

Your last sentence proves my point. What follows was the slaughter of the Gnostics, persecution of the Jews who knew your dogma was false and the Crusades. Hate fear threats are the moral values of Christians.
Im a Jew I dont have hell or devil we all go to the afterlife and come back to God. Our God is loving. Yours is more like the devil you created. I dont need your god I was saved at Mt Saini.
Yes, he did die. He aged and died. Had he not eaten the fruit he would not have aged or died. Duh!
 
He was expected to disobey. Disobedience is the test fir free will. God said Adam will die if he ae the fruit. Did he die. No. Its Gods plan that he eat the fruit so the moral teaching can begin. That leads to the Trial For Mans Freedom.

Christians created original sin hell and a devil to use fear to force people to follow them you conclude with that threat.

Your last sentence proves my point. What follows was the slaughter of the Gnostics, persecution of the Jews who knew your dogma was false and the Crusades. Hate fear threats are the moral values of Christians.
Im a Jew I dont have hell or devil we all go to the afterlife and come back to God. Our God is loving. Yours is more like the devil you created. I dont need your god I was saved at Mt Saini.
He was not expected to disobey. We write laws expecting people to obey. It’s better to obey than sacrifice. If not then he would have no free will. It was Eve who decided the second commandment was more important so they needed knowledge to have children and multiply.
No one saved you at Mt. Sinai. You have your free moral agency today to choose good or evil. You must endure to the end. You are not saved. That’s a stupid Christian thing that many have. That they can sin all they want after accepting the Lord and still be saved.
 
Original sin, by that I mean the sin that caused the fall of all mankind, as opposed to the first sin, Eves sin, which caused only her fall.

This is an important doctrine. It establishes God's working for the whole by one. Adam represented the whole human race as it would be born of Adam. So when he fell, the whole race fell. From day one when we are born, we are born sinners which we inheirited from Adam.

Many detest this truth. But it is God being able to provide salvation through One Man, Jesus Christ. In Adam all die. In Christ all are made alive. Point being, you have to be in Christ. Which is by faith alone.

Those who oppose this doctrine should realize that Christ was one Man. Which means He will only die once. And if He doesn't die for the whole, then only one person can he substitute for. What are the chances it's you or me?

Quantrill
 
Come to Jesus or you go to hell
Not exactly. No. It’s more like a love story.

The Christian view of original sin was not formed until after understanding who Jesus Christ is.
 
Not exactly. No. It’s more like a love story.

The Christian view of original sin was not formed until after understanding who Jesus Christ is.
Its a threat
 
Perhaps to those outside Christianity. To those in the know, it's a great promise.
Hell is a threat. Thats the foundation if Christianity. Fear punishment threat manipulation and an idol of a god
 
1 Samuel 8

1When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as judges over Israel. 2The name of his firstborn son was Joel, and the name of his second was Abijah. They were judges in Beersheba. 3But his sons did not walk in his ways; they turned aside toward dishonest gain, accepting bribes and perverting justice.

4So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5“Look,” they said, “you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint a king to judge us like all the other nations.”

6But when they said, “Give us a king to judge us,” their demand was displeasing in the sight of Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD.

7And the LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you. For it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected Me as their king. 8Just as they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking Me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9Now listen to them, but you must solemnly warn them and show them the manner of the king who will reign over them.”

Samuel’s Warning


10So Samuel spoke all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11He said, “This will be the manner of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them to his own chariots and horses, to run in front of his chariots.

12He will appoint some for himself as commanders of thousands and of fifties, and others to plow his ground, to reap his harvest, to make his weapons of war, and to equip his chariots.

13And he will take your daughters to be perfumers, cooks, and bakers.

14He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his servants. 15He will take a tenth of your grain and grape harvest and give it to his officials and servants. 16And he will take your menservants and maidservants and your best cattle and donkeys and put them to his own use.

17He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18When that day comes, you will beg for relief from the king you have chosen, but the LORD will not answer you on that day.”


God Grants the Request

19Nevertheless, the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We must have a king over us. 20Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to judge us, to go out before us, and to fight our battles.”

21Samuel listened to all the words of the people and repeated them in the hearing of the LORD.

22“Listen to their voice,” the LORD said to Samuel. “Appoint a king for them.”


Then Samuel told the men of Israel, “Everyone must go back to his city.”

God lays out why corrupt men should not reign as king over his fellow man. Simply put, man will use his power for his own selfish gain, forsaking those that suffer from it.

To drive home the point, God appointed David as king after the people demanded that a human king reign over them. The Bible says that David was a man after God's own heart.

1 Samuel 13:14 “But now your kingdom shall not endure. The Lord has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the Lord has appointed him ruler over His people, because you have not kept what the Lord commanded you.”

So, there was none better than David for the job, according to the Bible. Yet David committed two of the most egregious sins possible in his life, namely adultery with a married woman and the murder of her husband. Both sins by themselves were worthy of death in Mosaic law. Think of it, the most sinless and perfect soul God could find became a monster when he put that Lord of the Rings ring of power on his finger. There were only two more kings until the Hebrew kingdom broke apart and began to spiral the drain of destruction. Next thing the Hebrews knew, they woke up in the ovens of Nazi Germany.

But this goes back to the fall of Adam when he also put on that ring of the power of knowledge on his finger as well. It was just a latter manifestation of that sin.

For the Jew and for the secular humanist Leftist, original sin and 1 Samuel 8 presents an astounding problem. Who will be our Messiah to deliver us from the evil around us? For the Jew, they are looking for a mere mortal man once again to become their king and deliver them, which again feeds into the warnings God gave them about doing so.
Again, as 1 Samuel 8 points out, only God is qualified for that job. And for the Leftist, this means that centralized power can never lead to our collective salvation. In fact, it is quite the opposite. It will lead to our ruin as every failed regime, after failed regime, after failed regime, has proven time and time and time again. Yet mankind never connects the dots, do they?
For the Jew and for the secular humanist Leftist, original sin and 1 Samuel 8 presents an astounding problem. Who will be our Messiah to deliver us from the evil around us?

There should be a word limit on this forum. Most of your diatribe is using the bible, for which there is absolutely zero proof that any god inspired one word of it. It's like trying to disprove what The Lord of the Rings movie says. If someone came to me and said "Oh, I personally know the writers of that movie, and he told me that he communed with "God" to write that story and isn't it full of wisdom and insight because it is about good and evil and how good won out, and....."

In any event, the believers should speak for themselves. If YOU need a Messiah to behave, you go, girl. That's on you. I don't need one.
 
Hell is a threat. Thats the foundation if Christianity. Fear punishment threat manipulation and an idol of a god
Again, the perspective of an outsider, looking in, and then jumping to his own conclusion. Do you know what a conclusion is? It's the point where you stop thinking, so think. I had a Catholic education.

From a young age we were taught about free will, and we were taught we could choose God and the ways of God--or we could choose not to be have God or his ways. Hell (meaning complete separation from God) is a choice we make. In other words, God sends no one to hell, we choose hell. What might heaven and hell be like?

We were given this analogy. A person asked to see both heaven and hell. In hell everyone sat around a huge table with a big bowl of food in the center, and each person was given an extremely long spoon to reach the food. While they could reach the food, everyone was frustrated because the spoon handle was so long there was no way they could feed themselves. The exact same scenario presented itself in heaven, but here, everyone was talking, laughing--and eating. They were using those long-handled spoon to feed one another. The moral: Hell is for those whose first interest is always him/herself--not serving others.
 
Again, the perspective of an outsider, looking in, and then jumping to his own conclusion. Do you know what a conclusion is? It's the point where you stop thinking, so think. I had a Catholic education.

From a young age we were taught about free will, and we were taught we could choose God and the ways of God--or we could choose not to be have God or his ways. Hell (meaning complete separation from God) is a choice we make. In other words, God sends no one to hell, we choose hell. What might heaven and hell be like?

We were given this analogy. A person asked to see both heaven and hell. In hell everyone sat around a huge table with a big bowl of food in the center, and each person was given an extremely long spoon to reach the food. While they could reach the food, everyone was frustrated because the spoon handle was so long there was no way they could feed themselves. The exact same scenario presented itself in heaven, but here, everyone was talking, laughing--and eating. They were using those long-handled spoon to feed one another. The moral: Hell is for those whose first interest is always him/herself--not serving others.
If you dont believe in Jesus youre going to Hell. How is that not a threat
You do know most religions dont have hell. Only the primitive ones do
 
If you dont believe in Jesus youre going to Hell. How is that not a threat
You do know most religions dont have hell. Only the primitive ones do
Because no one knows their fate or the fate of others. So it’s not possible to say one way or the other.
 
Hell is a threat. Thats the foundation if Christianity. Fear punishment threat manipulation and an idol of a god
No. The foundation of Christianity is God’s love for his creatures and creation.

No one that I know is preaching fear.
 
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