Op-Ed from a Prophet

[ding]

Sure we do. Let me highlight the relevant parts.

Point #6: Man believes in a universal right and wrong.


If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.


Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.


So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.


Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.


If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.

You’d have to prove your invisible being first. You haven’t.

Sure I have, on multiple occasions. Physical, biological and moral laws of nature prove God’s existence.

You’ve only proven it to yourself, not to anyone else. It’s your personal opinion, which is ok, but you’ve shown not empirical proof.

Natural laws are empirical proof.

There is no evidence you will accept.

If you could argue how my logic was flawed you would but you can’t so all you can do is say it is wrong without any basis for that statement.

Natural laws like gravity don’t point to your invisible friend. You just think they do.

Sure they do. Would you like for me to explain?

 

[Avatar4321]

I have seen man made religion change the trajectory of others lives.
For some, that fills a void.

It's not religion that does it, TN. It is a relationship with the Creator that does it. Religion is merely a tool.

No proof that there is a creator.

all creation proves there is a Creator

 

[Taz]

I have seen man made religion change the trajectory of others lives.
For some, that fills a void.

It's not religion that does it, TN. It is a relationship with the Creator that does it. Religion is merely a tool.

No proof that there is a creator.

all creation proves there is a Creator

Nobody knows who or what created the universe. You don't even have any proof of the golden plates, or ancient subs, or the invisible being from the bible.

 

[ding]

I have seen man made religion change the trajectory of others lives.
For some, that fills a void.

It's not religion that does it, TN. It is a relationship with the Creator that does it. Religion is merely a tool.

No proof that there is a creator.

all creation proves there is a Creator

Nobody knows who or what created the universe. You don't even have any proof of the golden plates, or ancient subs, or the invisible being from the bible.

Sure we do. You just reject it is all. The proof is all around and in you. You just don’t believe it is all.

 

[BlackFlag]

Viewpoints: LDS president urges spirituality in an increasingly secular world during Phoenix-area visit

If there is anything I’ve learned in my 94 years of living, it is that a life with God is far better — more filled with hope — than one without Him. Faith in God is, and has always been, the pre-eminent force for good in this world. It is the most enduring source of peace for minds and hearts.

After three decades of doing cardiac surgery around the world, I thought I knew a little something about repairing hearts. Then I was called as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. In that moment, my focus shifted instantly to healing hearts another way — by turning all who will listen to the Master Healer, Jesus the Christ.

For the last 35 years, I have traveled the world, meeting with millions of men and women in more than 130 countries. I’ve witnessed the effects of poverty and wealth, seen the impact of education and the lack thereof, met the high in station and the humblest of souls, and been gratified by humanitarian outreach from so many who care deeply about the human condition — including the Church I now have the privilege of leading.

But the most profound thing I’ve witnessed is the unrivaled difference that belief in God and His Son, Jesus Christ, has in a person’s life. There is simply nothing to compare with the refining, ennobling strength and meaning that come into the life of a devoted believer and servant.

I can attest to this. Faith in Christ has changed the trajectory of my life. I've seen it change the lives of others. I invite you to let Him changes yours too

Spirituality's perfectly fine. A lot of people can't cope with existence without believing in some magical power. Just don't force your unsupported magical laws on others.

 

[ding]

Viewpoints: LDS president urges spirituality in an increasingly secular world during Phoenix-area visit

If there is anything I’ve learned in my 94 years of living, it is that a life with God is far better — more filled with hope — than one without Him. Faith in God is, and has always been, the pre-eminent force for good in this world. It is the most enduring source of peace for minds and hearts.

After three decades of doing cardiac surgery around the world, I thought I knew a little something about repairing hearts. Then I was called as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. In that moment, my focus shifted instantly to healing hearts another way — by turning all who will listen to the Master Healer, Jesus the Christ.

For the last 35 years, I have traveled the world, meeting with millions of men and women in more than 130 countries. I’ve witnessed the effects of poverty and wealth, seen the impact of education and the lack thereof, met the high in station and the humblest of souls, and been gratified by humanitarian outreach from so many who care deeply about the human condition — including the Church I now have the privilege of leading.

But the most profound thing I’ve witnessed is the unrivaled difference that belief in God and His Son, Jesus Christ, has in a person’s life. There is simply nothing to compare with the refining, ennobling strength and meaning that come into the life of a devoted believer and servant.

I can attest to this. Faith in Christ has changed the trajectory of my life. I've seen it change the lives of others. I invite you to let Him changes yours too

Spirituality's perfectly fine. A lot of people can't cope with existence without believing in some magical power. Just don't force your unsupported magical laws on others.

Who’s forcing it on you? I don’t even know how anyone could do that.

 

[BlackFlag]

Viewpoints: LDS president urges spirituality in an increasingly secular world during Phoenix-area visit

If there is anything I’ve learned in my 94 years of living, it is that a life with God is far better — more filled with hope — than one without Him. Faith in God is, and has always been, the pre-eminent force for good in this world. It is the most enduring source of peace for minds and hearts.

After three decades of doing cardiac surgery around the world, I thought I knew a little something about repairing hearts. Then I was called as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. In that moment, my focus shifted instantly to healing hearts another way — by turning all who will listen to the Master Healer, Jesus the Christ.

For the last 35 years, I have traveled the world, meeting with millions of men and women in more than 130 countries. I’ve witnessed the effects of poverty and wealth, seen the impact of education and the lack thereof, met the high in station and the humblest of souls, and been gratified by humanitarian outreach from so many who care deeply about the human condition — including the Church I now have the privilege of leading.

But the most profound thing I’ve witnessed is the unrivaled difference that belief in God and His Son, Jesus Christ, has in a person’s life. There is simply nothing to compare with the refining, ennobling strength and meaning that come into the life of a devoted believer and servant.

I can attest to this. Faith in Christ has changed the trajectory of my life. I've seen it change the lives of others. I invite you to let Him changes yours too

Spirituality's perfectly fine. A lot of people can't cope with existence without believing in some magical power. Just don't force your unsupported magical laws on others.

Who’s forcing it on you? I don’t even know how anyone could do that.

These days, not many are. It took centuries of fighting you nutters to create the secular west as we know it today. Most places in the 3rd world still need to catch up. You all still insist on harming non-Christians and various other groups; such as gay people and scientists.

 

[Taz]

I have seen man made religion change the trajectory of others lives.
For some, that fills a void.

It's not religion that does it, TN. It is a relationship with the Creator that does it. Religion is merely a tool.

No proof that there is a creator.

all creation proves there is a Creator

Nobody knows who or what created the universe. You don't even have any proof of the golden plates, or ancient subs, or the invisible being from the bible.

Sure we do. You just reject it is all. The proof is all around and in you. You just don’t believe it is all.

You and Ava are making assumptions that haven’t been proven. I’m not saying that it’s not possible, just not proven. That’s why I’m agnostic.

 

[Meriweather]

Spirituality's perfectly fine. A lot of people can't cope with existence without believing in some magical power. Just don't force your unsupported magical laws on others.

Seriously, to be taken seriously people have to quit referencing God as 'magical power'. It brings the conversation down to Kindergarten level, and many of us prefer not to engage at that low an altitude. For those of us who believe in a higher power, or even that humans are capable of a higher level of behavior, we don't see why we have to be dragged down into the sewer...once more...which has happened time and again throughout human history.

Beginning with Genesis, warnings have rung out about what happens to societies when sexual disciplines are not given much thought. Families break apart. Children are left fatherless, and while this affects girls, boys are affected the most. Societies become chaotic and end themselves. Humans learned this lesson as far back as Genesis, but we never seemed to learn from it. Instead we repeat that same cycle (circle) instead of spiraling up to a new level.

We who believe are not calling on a magical power, we are calling on and pointing to a higher power--or a higher level of behavior. We want stronger families, but a few strong families among millions don't have a enough power. This is why God chose a people to be set apart from the millions, to follow His ways and become a light to all nations. In all faiths, among all churches, the same number keeps coming up--the remnant number of twenty-five percent.

This means that you out number us 3-to-1. So let not the majority force their sewage on us.

PS: Sorry for the harshness. Along with being a little under the weather, this "magical" nonsense has me a little short-tempered today. I'll take a deep breath and be more reasonable next time.

 

[BULLDOG]

If I join LDS, how many underage girls can I marry?

0. You are also required to work and support your family and serve others. Also you will need to stop drinking alcohol, smoking, eat healthy, sacrifice your time and money to build the kingdom etc

That's nice, but answer the question. How many under aged girls?

 

[ding]

Viewpoints: LDS president urges spirituality in an increasingly secular world during Phoenix-area visit

If there is anything I’ve learned in my 94 years of living, it is that a life with God is far better — more filled with hope — than one without Him. Faith in God is, and has always been, the pre-eminent force for good in this world. It is the most enduring source of peace for minds and hearts.

After three decades of doing cardiac surgery around the world, I thought I knew a little something about repairing hearts. Then I was called as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. In that moment, my focus shifted instantly to healing hearts another way — by turning all who will listen to the Master Healer, Jesus the Christ.

For the last 35 years, I have traveled the world, meeting with millions of men and women in more than 130 countries. I’ve witnessed the effects of poverty and wealth, seen the impact of education and the lack thereof, met the high in station and the humblest of souls, and been gratified by humanitarian outreach from so many who care deeply about the human condition — including the Church I now have the privilege of leading.

But the most profound thing I’ve witnessed is the unrivaled difference that belief in God and His Son, Jesus Christ, has in a person’s life. There is simply nothing to compare with the refining, ennobling strength and meaning that come into the life of a devoted believer and servant.

I can attest to this. Faith in Christ has changed the trajectory of my life. I've seen it change the lives of others. I invite you to let Him changes yours too

Spirituality's perfectly fine. A lot of people can't cope with existence without believing in some magical power. Just don't force your unsupported magical laws on others.

Who’s forcing it on you? I don’t even know how anyone could do that.

These days, not many are. It took centuries of fighting you nutters to create the secular west as we know it today. Most places in the 3rd world still need to catch up. You all still insist on harming non-Christians and various other groups; such as gay people and scientists.

And you are still bitching about it why?

 

[ding]

It's not religion that does it, TN. It is a relationship with the Creator that does it. Religion is merely a tool.

No proof that there is a creator.

all creation proves there is a Creator

Nobody knows who or what created the universe. You don't even have any proof of the golden plates, or ancient subs, or the invisible being from the bible.

Sure we do. You just reject it is all. The proof is all around and in you. You just don’t believe it is all.

You and Ava are making assumptions that haven’t been proven. I’m not saying that it’s not possible, just not proven. That’s why I’m agnostic.

You aren’t agnostic. And it has been proven many times. You just reject it.

 

[Taz]

No proof that there is a creator.

all creation proves there is a Creator

Nobody knows who or what created the universe. You don't even have any proof of the golden plates, or ancient subs, or the invisible being from the bible.

Sure we do. You just reject it is all. The proof is all around and in you. You just don’t believe it is all.

You and Ava are making assumptions that haven’t been proven. I’m not saying that it’s not possible, just not proven. That’s why I’m agnostic.

You aren’t agnostic. And it has been proven many times. You just reject it.

So you don’t disagree with me. Good for you.

 

[ding]

all creation proves there is a Creator

Nobody knows who or what created the universe. You don't even have any proof of the golden plates, or ancient subs, or the invisible being from the bible.

Sure we do. You just reject it is all. The proof is all around and in you. You just don’t believe it is all.

You and Ava are making assumptions that haven’t been proven. I’m not saying that it’s not possible, just not proven. That’s why I’m agnostic.

You aren’t agnostic. And it has been proven many times. You just reject it.

So you don’t disagree with me. Good for you.

Your logic is astonishing.

 

[Taz]

Nobody knows who or what created the universe. You don't even have any proof of the golden plates, or ancient subs, or the invisible being from the bible.

Sure we do. You just reject it is all. The proof is all around and in you. You just don’t believe it is all.

You and Ava are making assumptions that haven’t been proven. I’m not saying that it’s not possible, just not proven. That’s why I’m agnostic.

You aren’t agnostic. And it has been proven many times. You just reject it.

So you don’t disagree with me. Good for you.

Your logic is astonishing.

Thank you.

 

[onefour1]

It wouldn't be faith if God were proven. Perhaps faith has a place in God's plan.

 

[Avatar4321]

I have seen man made religion change the trajectory of others lives.
For some, that fills a void.

It's not religion that does it, TN. It is a relationship with the Creator that does it. Religion is merely a tool.

No proof that there is a creator.

all creation proves there is a Creator

Nobody knows who or what created the universe. You don't even have any proof of the golden plates, or ancient subs, or the invisible being from the bible.

Incorrect. You don't know who created the universe. Millions of others know their Creator well

 

[Avatar4321]

Viewpoints: LDS president urges spirituality in an increasingly secular world during Phoenix-area visit

If there is anything I’ve learned in my 94 years of living, it is that a life with God is far better — more filled with hope — than one without Him. Faith in God is, and has always been, the pre-eminent force for good in this world. It is the most enduring source of peace for minds and hearts.

After three decades of doing cardiac surgery around the world, I thought I knew a little something about repairing hearts. Then I was called as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. In that moment, my focus shifted instantly to healing hearts another way — by turning all who will listen to the Master Healer, Jesus the Christ.

For the last 35 years, I have traveled the world, meeting with millions of men and women in more than 130 countries. I’ve witnessed the effects of poverty and wealth, seen the impact of education and the lack thereof, met the high in station and the humblest of souls, and been gratified by humanitarian outreach from so many who care deeply about the human condition — including the Church I now have the privilege of leading.

But the most profound thing I’ve witnessed is the unrivaled difference that belief in God and His Son, Jesus Christ, has in a person’s life. There is simply nothing to compare with the refining, ennobling strength and meaning that come into the life of a devoted believer and servant.

I can attest to this. Faith in Christ has changed the trajectory of my life. I've seen it change the lives of others. I invite you to let Him changes yours too

Spirituality's perfectly fine. A lot of people can't cope with existence without believing in some magical power. Just don't force your unsupported magical laws on others.

Nothing unsupported about it. But you have nothing to fear. The Lord doesn't force people to know Him

 

[Avatar4321]

If I join LDS, how many underage girls can I marry?

0. You are also required to work and support your family and serve others. Also you will need to stop drinking alcohol, smoking, eat healthy, sacrifice your time and money to build the kingdom etc

That's nice, but answer the question. How many under aged girls?

i did answer the question. It was literally the first thing I said. Please try to read

 

[BULLDOG]

If I join LDS, how many underage girls can I marry?

0. You are also required to work and support your family and serve others. Also you will need to stop drinking alcohol, smoking, eat healthy, sacrifice your time and money to build the kingdom etc

That's nice, but answer the question. How many under aged girls?

i did answer the question. It was literally the first thing I said. Please try to read

Well no. You didn't give a number. Are you saying you can have unlimited under aged wives if you can afford them?