Only the most uninformed Americans feel undocumented workers are not of value to USA citizens

[excalibur]

Economists have found that:
Providing legal status and a pathway to citizenship could boost U.S. GDP by hundreds of billions over a decade and create new jobs — which benefits workers of all statuses, including citizens.

We are a $30,0000 billion a year economy, and growing. IOW, chump change for the ultimate costs they place on society.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Yes they do. But that is on the US citizens who pay under the table. Many USA citizens get paid under the table, also.

That makes it all better

 

[Dogmaphobe]

And we all know what the punishment for treason is, don't we?

The comphy chair?

 

[White 6]

I don't know if they are deplorable, but most certainly they are deportable.

Many of them have overstayed visas, lost asylum claims, or otherwise lost their once legal status through things like expedited removal.

Trying to do things the right way after years or even decades does not absolve them of their crime.

Their crime of being here is a federal misdemeanor by act of congress. I should not jaywalk or piss on the sidewalk downtown. You have done misdemeanors also, but nobody would dare send 3,000 masked, unmarked uniform storm trooper, in unmarked cars on violent raids, chasing you and me down.
Think of it like this. President Barrack Obama deported many more than Trump, something like 3 million to Trump's 1.2 million. Yet, no storm troopers, no large publicized multi thousand troop deployments to cities Democrat run nor Republican, and no major blowback from the public over brutal deportation tactics. No specifically sticking it to and city, or state due to how that state voted in the election. He as the president easily leading the largest numbers of deportations, never had a month with two Americans either executed or recklessly man slaughtered in a single month, but he was getting the aliens out, steadily.
Whether you like him or not, in general, Which way is better?

 

[1srelluc]

I'd like to know what has changed.

The state department authorized H2B workers to come into the country, pick whatever, then they would go home at the end of the season....Rince and repeat every season.

The extensive orchards in my AO (back in the day) always had enough pickers and they lived in migrant camps till the job was done and then moved on to the next one.

Winter work, tree pruning and such, was done by locals and/or H2Bs that usually lived in provided housing.

Those H2Bs had permission to stay over the winter but they had to return to their own country X number of day before they could come back.

It was a well oiled machine that worked just fine. WTF happened I don't know.

 

[White 6]

I'd like to know what has changed.

The state department authorized H2B workers to come into the country, pick whatever, then they would go home at the end of the season....Rince and repeat every season.

The extensive orchards in my AO (back in the day) always had enough pickers and they lived in migrant camps till the job was done and then moved on to the next one.

Winter work, tree pruning and such, was done by locals and/or H2Bs that usually lived in provided housing.

Those H2Bs had permission to stay over the winter but they had to return to their own country X number of day before they could come back.

It was a well oiled machine that worked just fine. WTF happened I don't know.

I figured the people you are talking about, were still doing that. The problem that kept multiplying from the 80s forward, with each administration kicking the can down the road, so as to do nothing, but do nothing harsh, are foreign visitors, foreign business workers, trained people, student visa kids that liked it here, staying after graduation and of course asylum seekers and outright sneak ins. Legal ones appeals run out, ordered out, but not removed, and then Biden opened the floodgates, while doing nothing for processing. He brought the kicking the problem down the road to the breaking point.

The needs to be comprehensive immigration reform, but it is politically unpalatable.

 

[Rogue AI]

Their crime of being here is a federal misdemeanor by act of congress. I should not jaywalk or piss on the sidewalk downtown. You have done misdemeanors also, but nobody would dare send 3,000 masked, unmarked uniform storm trooper, in unmarked cars on violent raids, chasing you and me down.
Think of it like this. President Barrack Obama deported many more than Trump, something like 3 million to Trump's 1.2 million. Yet, no storm troopers, no large publicized multi thousand troop deployments to cities Democrat run nor Republican, and no major blowback from the public over brutal deportation tactics. No specifically sticking it to and city, or state due to how that state voted in the election. He as the president easily leading the largest numbers of deportations, never had a month with two Americans either executed or recklessly man slaughtered in a single month, but he was getting the aliens out, steadily.
Whether you like him or not, in general, Which way is better?

You think Obama's enforcement was a friendly jaunt in the park? I guess you loons already forgot about Obama's kiddie cages that AOC kindly pointed out a while back. The only difference is the liberal media and radicalized liberal loons either praised Obama or pretended it didn't happen. An honest media and keeping your rabid mutts at home will end everything you loons are whining about. Your side created this whole thing.

 

[Bitterhook]

I figured the people you are talking about, were still doing that. The problem that kept multiplying from the 80s forward, with each administration kicking the can down the road, so as to do nothing, but do nothing harsh, are foreign visitors, foreign business workers, trained people, student visa kids that liked it here, staying after graduation and of course asylum seekers and outright sneak ins. Legal ones appeals run out, ordered out, but not removed, and then Biden opened the floodgates, while doing nothing for processing. He brought the kicking the problem down the road to the breaking point.

The needs to be comprehensive immigration reform, but it is politically unpalatable.

Adapting or adding additional laws when we cannot properly enforce the ones we have, is not necessarily the best solution.
At the same time, you are correct that it is politically unpalatable especially in regard to the fact that what we need to do won't necessarily serve the politics of the matter.

You can add to that, the whole "Heavy Weighs the Crown" and everything that comes with it, because what we really might need to do, won't necessarily be popular with a lot of folks, and possibly not the majority of people.

But oh well, so the cookie crumbles.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Only the most uninformed Americans feel undocumented workers are not of value to USA citizens​

Of course they are of value.

And now they have to go home.

 

[fncceo]

Only the most uninformed Americans feel undocumented workers are not of value to USA citizens.

If this were the 19th Century we could get to build a railroad.

But we already have a railroad.

 

[White 6]

You think Obama's enforcement was a friendly jaunt in the park? I guess you loons already forgot about Obama's kiddie cages that AOC kindly pointed out a while back. The only difference is the liberal media and radicalized liberal loons either praised Obama or pretended it didn't happen. An honest media and keeping your rabid mutts at home will end everything you loons are whining about. Your side created this whole thing.

It was an idea that did not work, to be sure, unpalatable, but never sparking violent backlash. Not an all out assault on cities or states. Overall Customs and Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement were still honorable Federal Services, not masked combat decked out shock troops in the news constantly, and not used to stick it to the party not in the White House to shore up a shrinking base. Yet, under Obama, 3 million undocumented or those losing documentation efforts were, (on average) quietly, steadily deported. Not showy, but steadily working the problem.
If we can control the boarder and points of entry, we could go back to that style of illegal alien removal and simply work the problem, while controlling the inflow. But, this is not what the minority MAGA base wants to see.

 

[Bitterhook]

If this were the 19th Century we could get to build a railroad.

But we already have a railroad.

Amazingly the California High Speed Rail project is years behind schedule with all the help they seem to have available.
Of course, the fact they spend almost all their money on the help that isn't working, and not near enough on the project is probably a significant part of the problem.

 

[fncceo]

Amazingly the California High Speed Rail project is years behind schedule with all the help they seem to have available.

The only thing high speed about that project was how quickly the money disappeared into overseas bank accounts.

 

[Rogue AI]

It was an idea that did not work, to be sure, unpalatable, but never sparking violent backlash. Not an all out assault on cities or states. Overall Customs and Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement were still honorable Federal Services, not masked combat decked out shock troops in the news constantly, and not used to stick it to the party not in the White House to shore up a shrinking base. Yet, under Obama, 3 million undocumented or those losing documentation efforts were, (on average) quietly, steadily deported. Not showy, but steadily working the problem.
If we can control the boarder and points of entry, we could go back to that style of illegal alien removal and simply work the problem, while controlling the inflow. But, this is not what the minority MAGA base wants to see.

Your praise for Obama is ill conceived, it was his failures that gave us Trump in the first place. Add in the massive influx of illegals from four years of the Biden open borders and there is no nice way to fix it. You're pushing a pipe dream. The only places there are problems is sanctuary cities and where your liberal loons are actively obstructing. Much of this is simply drama queen nonsense, the only time the media mentions attacks on ICE or CBP is if they shoot someone, even though that is a tiny fraction of the total attacks. Yet they are under constant assault, which didn't happen in the Obama years because enforcement is OK if a liberal does it but not a Republican. You loons asked for, choke on it.

 

[ElmerMudd]

If this were the 19th Century we could get to build a railroad.

But we already have a railroad.

They are doing the same ting today. They are working menial jobs at low wages.

 

[Rogue AI]

They are doing the same ting today. They are working menial jobs at low wages.

Hardly, illegals have infiltrated numerous industries and depressed wages. That also shuts out Americans from many leadership positions if they don't speak Spanish or some other language.

 

[White 6]

Your praise for Obama is ill conceived, it was his failures that gave us Trump in the first place. Add in the massive influx of illegals from four years of the Biden open borders and there is no nice way to fix it. You're pushing a pipe dream. The only places there are problems is sanctuary cities and where your liberal loons are actively obstructing. Much of this is simply drama queen nonsense, the only time the media mentions attacks on ICE or CBP is if they shoot someone, even though that is a tiny fraction of the total attacks. Yet they are under constant assault, which didn't happen in the Obama years because enforcement is OK if a liberal does it but not a Republican. You loons asked for, choke on it.

Quit moving the goal post. We are talking about immigration and then numbers and methods of Obama and Trump are the numbers and methods of Obama and Trump.
Nobody has praise Biden immigration policies ever, that I am aware of.

Bottom line is majority of Americans to not approve the way trump is going about getting the illegal out. I personnally favor the lower key but obviously better numbers under the Obama administration, as being more than twice Trump's in 5 years, but with far less pushback on removal. I have always had the conservative philosophy of using the least force necessary to get the same or better result with less damage or chaos is the path to be taken.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Hardly, illegals have infiltrated numerous industries and depressed wages. That also shuts out Americans from many leadership positions if they don't speak Spanish or some other language.

American businesses have to quit hiring them. Go after the businesses. Go after consumers who use illegals for yardwork etc. Most would not come without jobs

 

[BackAgain]

Only the most uninformed Americans feel undocumented workers are not of value to USA citizens. Sure, there are bad actors that are undocumented but only the most stupid among us, paint them all with the same brush.

Undocumented workers pay a lot in taxes, even though most can’t receive major federal benefits like Social Security retirement or Medicare:
In 2022, undocumented immigrants paid nearly $97 billion in federal, state, and local taxes.

• They also contribute billions annually to Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes — but because they lack legal status, they generally cannot collect benefits.
• In specific states like Washington, undocumented immigrants were responsible for around $3 billion in taxes, supporting public services like schools, roads, and emergency services.

What this means: U.S. citizens benefit from these tax revenues because they help fund public infrastructure, education, health programs, and local services that everyone uses.

Undocumented immigrants make up a significant share of the workforce in key sectors:
They represent a large part of labor in agriculture, maintenance, construction, food preparation, and other industries — jobs that many U.S. citizens are less likely to fill.
It keeps prices lower for consumers on food and services.

• It keeps industries running (especially agriculture and hospitality) that would otherwise face labor shortages.

Undocumented immigrants are also consumers who spend money on goods and services:
Their spending—on housing, transportation, food, utilities, etc.—supports U.S. businesses and jobs for citizens and other residents.

• Research estimates they pay $79.7 billion in federal taxes and $41 billion in state and local taxes annually, and also contribute significantly to mortgage and rental markets through housing costs.

Economists have found that:
Providing legal status and a pathway to citizenship could boost U.S. GDP by hundreds of billions over a decade and create new jobs — which benefits workers of all statuses, including citizens.

• Immigrants (including undocumented workers) contribute to labor force growth, which is crucial for an aging U.S. population and declining birth rates.

Studies with historical evidence also show that when undocumented workers gain legal status, their earnings rise — which boosts tax contributions and consumer spending further.

Research also shows social and community benefits associated with immigrant populations:
Policies that allow immigrants to integrate (e.g., driver's licenses) can improve public safety and civic participation.

• Immigrant families contribute to community life, including schools, faith communities, and local organizations.

---

​

Here are the main ways undocumented immigrants have been shown to help U.S. citizens and communities:
They pay substantial taxes that fund public services used by citizens and residents.
They fill essential jobs in key sectors, supporting industries and keeping prices stable.
Their consumer spending fuels economic growth.
They contribute to long-term economic growth and labor force expansion.
Their integration into communities strengthens social life and local economies.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/londonschoolofeconomics/2025/01/22/being-paperless-doesnt-mean-youre-powerlessthe-economic-power-of-undocumented-immigrants-in-the-us/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Why Immigration Relief Matters

Undocumented immigrants make significant economic contributions and are integral members of communities across the United States; immigration relief is necessary to continue growing the economy and strengthening communities nationwide, especially amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.americanprogress.org

Nice tirade.

But you (of all people) declaring that all those who disagree with you are “uneducated” is wrong and narcissistic of you.

Also, your unclean start presumes that this is a big argument. If we were all to stipulate (for the sake of discussion) that illegal aliens have some possible economic value to America, that still doesn’t make their presence here either legal or desirable.

One of the key words you use (despite the fact that the proper legal term is “legal alien”) could serve a sort of a clue.

Undocumented.

If you honestly wanted to discuss the matter, you’d have to acknowledge that term and its significance.

 

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

HARMS of Illegal Immigration
1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).
2. Wage reduction.
3. Tax $$$ Lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).
4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($200+ Billion/year).
5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.
6. Increased crime.
7. Increased traffic congestion.
8. Increased pollution.
9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.
10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.
11. Overcrowding in government offices.
12. Overcrowding in schools.
13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.
14. Cultural erosion.
15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)
16. Introduction of foreign diseases
17. Influx of terrorists.
18. Wildfires
19. Litter
20. Housing congestion (loss of available housing)
21. Massive housing inflation (200%) from market saturation

You do know Trump said he wants housing prices to go up.