One other curiousity

[Darkwind]

Who here understands why it is wrong for the Federal Government to compete with the private sector.

 

[whaleboat]

I'll give you an example of where the federal government didn't compete and why . In the early 70's I lived on a military base that was big enough to house probably 10 to 15,000 people . Complete with schools , stores , hospitals , etc. The base was only at about 25% capacity when I lived there and eventually was all but abandoned . The surounding towns petitioned the government to give the base to them , saying they could use the schools , hospitals , and fill up the houses with low income people . The government said no because it would have destroyed the local real estate markets , the constuction industry , etc . You can't have a tax payer subsidized government entity competing with private industry because the government takes business away from people that would normally get that business if the government weren't involved .

 

[manifold]

Because the industry, whatever it is, necessarily evolves toward a government owned monopoly.

 

[Darkwind]

I'll give you an example of where the federal government didn't compete and why . In the early 70's I lived on a military base that was big enough to house probably 10 to 15,000 people . Complete with schools , stores , hospitals , etc. The base was only at about 25% capacity when I lived there and eventually was all but abandoned . The surounding towns petitioned the government to give the base to them , saying they could use the schools , hospitals , and fill up the houses with low income people . The government said no because it would have destroyed the local real estate markets , the constuction industry , etc . You can't have a tax payer subsidized government entity competing with private industry because the government takes business away from people that would normally get that business if the government weren't involved .

That is one example. Very good.

 

[Darkwind]

Because the industry, whatever it is, necessarily evolves toward a government owned monopoly.

Yes. But think of it this way.

I (the government) own a bar and can set the prices of liquor against you, another bar owner.

Seeing as I can set the price, it would be an easy matter for Me to price you right out of business thereby setting up a monopoly.

 

[Ravi]

Because the industry, whatever it is, necessarily evolves toward a government owned monopoly.

You mean like the Postal Service?

 

[manifold]

Because the industry, whatever it is, necessarily evolves toward a government owned monopoly.

You mean like the Postal Service?

Yes

They have long held a monopoly on regular mail and pretty much still do.

As for priority mail, they got into that market a bit late, so they're not there yet. Evolution can be very slow.

 

[Darkwind]

Because the industry, whatever it is, necessarily evolves toward a government owned monopoly.

You mean like the Postal Service?

Yes

They have long held a monopoly on regular mail and pretty much still do.

As for priority mail, they got into that market a bit late, so they're not there yet. Evolution can be very slow.

Much like FedEx and UPS getting into the letter business. They were late to the notion and really can't compete. Even though the Postal Service is seriously mismanaged and on the verge of bankruptcy. Which is what any public option in health will be after a few years of mismanagement.

But the real key here is the Federal Government competing in the private sector. Where does it end? And can you imagine the conflicts of interest when Government competes with private?

After all, who is going to police the government? Social Security is absolute proof that government cannot police itself.

 

[Ravi]

The people police the government. Almost no one polices private industry.

What a hoot, the Postal Service is a failure therefore we should fear the government competing with private industry.

 

[Darkwind]

The people police the government. Almost no one polices private industry.

What a hoot, the Postal Service is a failure therefore we should fear the government competing with private industry.

The Postal Service is being proped up against failure thereby giving them an unfair advantage over any competitor. Thats a hoot to you? You have a twisted sense of humor if that is the case.

The people DO NOT police the government as witnessed by the past 40 years. Just look at what happened this August past. Leaders of the government, knowing full well that the public has turned against their public option have given over to ridicule of the citizenry and are now speaking of 'muscling' legislation through in opposition to public opinion.

And lets not forget that the congress, not that long ago, was prepared to write laws that targeted specific individuals because they didn't like that they were having their contracts fulfilled.

And then there is the matter of salaries. Who decides those? The people? How about bribes? The Congress merrily goes about bribing each other on a daily basis and when called on it, they make platitudes. Kind of like Obama who would not sign any bill that had bribes in it. Yet he has.

Are you going to tell Me that you cannot see a moral hazard in having the Federal Government compete with the private sector?

 

[Luissa]

Because the industry, whatever it is, necessarily evolves toward a government owned monopoly.

Yes. But think of it this way.

I (the government) own a bar and can set the prices of liquor against you, another bar owner.

Seeing as I can set the price, it would be an easy matter for Me to price you right out of business thereby setting up a monopoly.

and you have the state of washington who controls liquor stores and prices because quess what they are owned by the state. Liquor prices rarely go up here along with the taxes on liquor.

 

[Darkwind]

Because the industry, whatever it is, necessarily evolves toward a government owned monopoly.

Yes. But think of it this way.

I (the government) own a bar and can set the prices of liquor against you, another bar owner.

Seeing as I can set the price, it would be an easy matter for Me to price you right out of business thereby setting up a monopoly.

and you have the state of washington who controls liquor stores and prices because quess what they are owned by the state. Liquor prices rarely go up here along with the taxes on liquor.

You consider that a good thing?

The same thing applies here in Pennsylvania. The state runs the liquor/wine stores and forces beer sales through distributorships. The beer can only be purchased in case quantities. (A real good decision by the state for alcoholics, eh?) and only restaurants and bars are allowed to sell beer in six and twelve pack quantities. No other store is permitted to sell beer. The license to run and own a state run liquor store is doled out as political favors and the state deliberately keeps these licensed limited. In fact, the only way to get one is to wait for a store owner to be fired or die.

The prices for all of these products are no cheaper then New York and in some places, more expensive. No competition is permitted at all. Not a very free state, Pennsylvania.

 

[Ravi]

On the contrary, polls show the majority want a public option.

 

[Ravi]

The people police the government. Almost no one polices private industry.

What a hoot, the Postal Service is a failure therefore we should fear the government competing with private industry.

The Postal Service is being proped up against failure thereby giving them an unfair advantage over any competitor. Thats a hoot to you? You have a twisted sense of humor if that is the case.

The people DO NOT police the government as witnessed by the past 40 years. Just look at what happened this August past. Leaders of the government, knowing full well that the public has turned against their public option have given over to ridicule of the citizenry and are now speaking of 'muscling' legislation through in opposition to public opinion.

And lets not forget that the congress, not that long ago, was prepared to write laws that targeted specific individuals because they didn't like that they were having their contracts fulfilled.

And then there is the matter of salaries. Who decides those? The people? How about bribes? The Congress merrily goes about bribing each other on a daily basis and when called on it, they make platitudes. Kind of like Obama who would not sign any bill that had bribes in it. Yet he has.

Are you going to tell Me that you cannot see a moral hazard in having the Federal Government compete with the private sector?

Sorry, your argument is illogical.

Have fun.

 

[Luissa]

Yes. But think of it this way.

I (the government) own a bar and can set the prices of liquor against you, another bar owner.

Seeing as I can set the price, it would be an easy matter for Me to price you right out of business thereby setting up a monopoly.

and you have the state of washington who controls liquor stores and prices because quess what they are owned by the state. Liquor prices rarely go up here along with the taxes on liquor.

You consider that a good thing?

The same thing applies here in Pennsylvania. The state runs the liquor/wine stores and forces beer sales through distributorships. The beer can only be purchased in case quantities. (A real good decision by the state for alcoholics, eh?) and only restaurants and bars are allowed to sell beer in six and twelve pack quantities. No other store is permitted to sell beer. The license to run and own a state run liquor store is doled out as political favors and the state deliberately keeps these licensed limited. In fact, the only way to get one is to wait for a store owner to be fired or die.

The prices for all of these products are no cheaper then New York and in some places, more expensive. No competition is permitted at all. Not a very free state, Pennsylvania.

yeah I consider it a good thing, because are liquor prices stay pretty much the same while our beer prices go up because the state has nothing to do with beer and wine sales.
eight years ago when I would buy a pint of cheap vodka it was 5.10 now it is 5.25. Eight years ago you could buy 12 pack of beer for 7.99 now that same 12 pack can be 10.99
more. and you can buy beer any way you want here along with any grocery store.
Just because your state screws you doesn't mean mine does.
The private businesses control the beer prices here and it isn't because of taxes why the price is going up, this year was the first year in at least ten years that they raised beer taxes in the state.

 

[veritas]

I, (the insurance industry) have an almost monopoly and therefore set the prices and terms of healthcare. In fact, the government has stepped in in many instances to manipulate prices, control production and stabilize industries when things get off kilter. We subsidize sugar and rice and farmers and big corporations all the time. Bush had to beg and cajole vaccines manufacturers to keep producing vaccines and keep their facilities open for new threats, although that should probably be something the government does. Until very recently the armed forces used their own personnel for housing and food and supplies and manpower, now we have mercenaries and private contractors and Halliburton. Thank goodness VA healthcare is socialized medicine. I can just imagine how it would be if private industry got its hands on that.

So whether government competes overtly or by tweaking, it can and does all the time.

 

[AllieBaba]

Who here understands why it is wrong for the Federal Government to compete with the private sector.

#1...the private sector cannot compete with zero cost insurance
#2...citizens will be forced into gov't insurance if their premiums change, when it is enrollment time, etc.
#3...Citizens will be penalized to the tune of THOUSANDS of dollars a year if they choose not to have insurance
#4...Employers will be penalized for not assisting with shoving their employess into gov't insurance &
#5...The gov't has no business controlling the insurance industry, any more than it has any business controlling the health industry, banking industry, auto industry, the farm industry, or any other industry which comes from American resources.

It's a power grab.

 

[veritas]

#1...the private sector cannot compete with zero cost insurance

Zero cost? Where'd you get that idea skippy?

Secondly, several states are set up so there is no for profit health insurance......like Minnesota, Wisconsin and Vermont. I think that is a great way to operate.

 

[veritas]

#5...The gov't has no business controlling the insurance industry, any more than it has any business controlling the health industry, banking industry, auto industry, the farm industry, or any other industry which comes from American resources.

I see that you're an anarchist.

 

[paperview]

and you have the state of washington who controls liquor stores and prices because quess what they are owned by the state. Liquor prices rarely go up here along with the taxes on liquor.

You consider that a good thing?

The same thing applies here in Pennsylvania. The state runs the liquor/wine stores and forces beer sales through distributorships. The beer can only be purchased in case quantities. (A real good decision by the state for alcoholics, eh?) and only restaurants and bars are allowed to sell beer in six and twelve pack quantities. No other store is permitted to sell beer. The license to run and own a state run liquor store is doled out as political favors and the state deliberately keeps these licensed limited. In fact, the only way to get one is to wait for a store owner to be fired or die.

The prices for all of these products are no cheaper then New York and in some places, more expensive. No competition is permitted at all. Not a very free state, Pennsylvania.

yeah I consider it a good thing, because are liquor prices stay pretty much the same while our beer prices go up because the state has nothing to do with beer and wine sales.
eight years ago when I would buy a pint of cheap vodka it was 5.10 now it is 5.25. Eight years ago you could buy 12 pack of beer for 7.99 now that same 12 pack can be 10.99
more. and you can buy beer any way you want here along with any grocery store.
Just because your state screws you doesn't mean mine does.
The private businesses control the beer prices here and it isn't because of taxes why the price is going up, this year was the first year in at least ten years that they raised beer taxes in the state.

Here in NH, the State controls the liquor store & prices are cheaper than the surrounding states.
People come from other states to buy our liquor (which ironically enough, has a good many stores located right on the interstate, adjoined to the Rest Areas. lol)